So you think you deserve $15/hr. at Mc-Donald's? Meet your replacement.

[UncleBuck]

Not sure, maybe they don't have grease trap cleaning charges? Maybe they don't have to have upflow drains checked and paid for to fit in with city ordinances? Maybe their waste removal is paid for as a common area cost and not personal? Maybe they don't have fire extinguisher checks/costs? Maybe the products are sourced locally and are less expensive? Maybe their rent is less than in the states? Perhaps business insurance coverage costs are less overseas? Maybe it's workers comp insurance, is that less? Maybe electricity or sewage or water or gas costs are less than here? Maybe less employees are needed because the menu is different? Who knows- you're the one asking, I'm sure you have the answers to the above variables.

And this is only a debate to you. I'm having a discussion about something that interests me. So you can sit on your couch and pet your dog and search google for all
the above facts to post in charts but I don't need to. It's not important enough for me to do so. I live it every day and I know exactly what will happen to me and my business if I raise my labor expense significantly. Oh, and not every conversation is a debate. Sometimes a discussion is beneficial to everyone because they all learn something.

maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe.

well, that convinces me.

 

[UncleBuck]

Hah, it's clear all you want from all of this is to the right to say you were right and everyone else was wrong. I guess you missed the part with how restaurant costs are over 60% higher in comparison to the United States of America.

good thing groceries are 10% cheaper then.

still haven't seen anything from you to support your notion that higher min wages lead to massive unemployment.

 

[bu$hleaguer]

maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe.

well, that convinces me.

I wasn't trying to convince you. It's clear you read a lot of online stuff but have no first hand knowledge of running a business or paying employees. I'm sure your pot venture is successful because you're a smart dude but it doesn't sound like you have very many on your payroll. How many employees do you have?

 

[ttystikk]

Unfortunately these sweeping $15/hr wishes aren't good for everyone. It will be great to have everyone who works make more money, and for the scumbag corporations we all hate like Walmart to have to care about their employees, but it will do the opposite for mom and pop shops out there.

The minimum wage being hiked will absolutely cause these small businesses to hike their price of their goods. They'll simply pass the costs on to the consumer. After cheeseburgers are $7 at McNasty's, and people stop eating there as much because it's too expensive, they will lay off employees and eventually have to close their doors. Good. I hate mcdonalds anyway. But what about the mom and pop shop that will have to close due to it? They busted their asses to open up shop and unfortunately I don't think they'll be able to survive if they have to pay so much to have someone sit at a counter and ring people up. They're not a huge corporation. They're honest, hardworking folks like the rest of us.

This is an excellent question, and the answer is that employee wages are a much smaller percentage of the total cost of your hypothetical Big Mac than you're assuming. This also holds true for the vast majority of other products and services.

What we're ultimately doing with a minimum wage hike is shifting buying power down the economic scale. That's going to HELP small businesses because there are more customers, not hurt them.

In other words, it will grow the economy to give millions of Americans a raise. Shocker, I know!

 

[heckler73]

Would you like to see an economic model explaining it ?

 

[Rob Roy]

This is an excellent question, and the answer is that employee wages are a much smaller percentage of the total cost of your hypothetical Big Mac than you're assuming. This also holds true for the vast majority of other products and services.

What we're ultimately doing with a minimum wage hike is shifting buying power down the economic scale. That's going to HELP small businesses because there are more customers, not hurt them.

In other words, it will grow the economy to give millions of Americans a raise. Shocker, I know!

How do you so easily discard the violent means you propose when you you seem to desire a peaceful end result?

That's a serious question BTW.

 

[AquariusPanta]

good thing groceries are 10% cheaper then.

still haven't seen anything from you to support your notion that higher min wages lead to massive unemployment.

I hardly eat out but with those costs, I'd be forced to hire a chef or learn to become one!

 

[bu$hleaguer]

This is an excellent question, and the answer is that employee wages are a much smaller percentage of the total cost of your hypothetical Big Mac than you're assuming. This also holds true for the vast majority of other products and services.

What we're ultimately doing with a minimum wage hike is shifting buying power down the economic scale. That's going to HELP small businesses because there are more customers, not hurt them.

In other words, it will grow the economy to give millions of Americans a raise. Shocker, I know!

Well it's about a third. In a food business, you try to keep your expenses in thirds. 1/3 for food, 1/3 for labor, 1/3 for fixed costs (which includes all the shit I asked about above in regards to some Big Mac price buck talked of in Denmark or something). The total of these needs to be less than your revenue or you're fucked.

You're saying that by making businesses pay employees more it will help because they'll pay it back into the business? I call bullshit. I think all that will happen is the dirtbags will continue to be poor because they'll buy more unnecessary shit. I think everyone assumes that the poor are smart investors and savers of their money. I don't think this is the case, and I say it's the opposite- that they'll buy stupid shit they don't need. Did the stimulus plans that Obama had help the economy by giving $100 or so to each person? (And I'm serious, I really don't know)

 

[UncleBuck]

I hardly eat out but with those costs, I'd be forced to hire a chef or learn to become one!

good thing a big mac is only $0.40 more, despite the min wage being $20.

and no massive unemployment either, despite your claims.

 

[UncleBuck]

You're saying that by making businesses pay employees more it will help because they'll pay it back into the business?....they'll buy more unnecessary shit.

so thy won't pay it back into businesses by paying it back into businesses?

what a theory.

 

[bu$hleaguer]

so thy won't pay it back into businesses by paying it back into businesses?

what a theory.

No, they'll get $15/hr from mcdonalds, and then spend $350 on a new TV made in China.

Get the theory? You're actually not too bright are you?

 

[UncleBuck]

No, they'll get $15/hr from mcdonalds, and then spend $350 on a new TV made in China.

Get the theory?

but no one will stop at mcdonalds?

 

[bu$hleaguer]

but no one will stop at mcdonalds?

I haven't a clue. The point is you can't just make the little guy pay for the problems that the big guy has created. You need reform at the top, not at the little guys shop.

How many employees do you have Buck?

 

[ttystikk]

Well it's about a third. In a food business, you try to keep your expenses in thirds. 1/3 for food, 1/3 for labor, 1/3 for fixed costs (which includes all the shit I asked about above in regards to some Big Mac price buck talked of in Denmark or something). The total of these needs to be less than your revenue or you're fucked.

You're saying that by making businesses pay employees more it will help because they'll pay it back into the business? I call bullshit. I think all that will happen is the dirtbags will continue to be poor because they'll buy more unnecessary shit. I think everyone assumes that the poor are smart investors and savers of their money. I don't think this is the case, and I say it's the opposite- that they'll buy stupid shit they don't need. Did the stimulus plans that Obama had help the economy by giving $100 or so to each person? (And I'm serious, I really don't know)

Some of that silly unnecessary shit they'll buy will be Big Macs, which will certainly replace the pain suffered from paying a few extra dollars.

 

[UncleBuck]

I haven't a clue.

you're not sure whether mcdonalds will stay in business?

 

[ttystikk]

No, they'll get $15/hr from mcdonalds, and then spend $350 on a new TV made in China.

Get the theory? You're actually not too bright are you?

Well then, why not put an end to the subsidies for manufacturing all of our goods overseas? That's actually part of the plan, don't you know-

 

[ttystikk]

I haven't a clue. The point is you can't just make the little guy pay for the problems that the big guy has created. You need reform at the top, not at the little guys shop.

How many employees do you have Buck?

Now, I do agree that we need reform at the top as well- but there is no need to wait on reform at ALL levels, and if the bottom moves first, good for them!

 

[bu$hleaguer]

Some of that silly unnecessary shit they'll buy will be Big Macs, which will certainly replace the pain suffered from paying a few extra dollars.

It's just that it's not as easy as that in my eyes. If you don't personally have a payroll and spend your hard earned money on employees to run your business, how could you possibly form an opinion as to how someone who does should spend their money?

I happen to, and know that it's not as simple as saying "it'll come back, don't worry."

They should make it a tiered system or something, to make it fair. Businesses with a certain amount of profit have to pay their employees x. Those below pay x-1 minimum. Those over pay x+1 minimum. I don't know, it's just super unfair when profit margins are so fucking slim for some like myself.

 

[bu$hleaguer]

you're not sure whether mcdonalds will stay in business?

No, you asked this:

but no one will stop at mcdonalds?

and I said I haven't a clue, because I really don't know. I'm sure people would still eat at mcdonalds but not if the costs of the burger go up too much, or if the wait is really long now because they have less employees.

 

[UncleBuck]

it's just super unfair when profit margins are so fucking slim for some like myself.

think of how it is for someone who works 55 hours a week and can't even afford rent.