Nutrient companies are stealing our / your money. Lets talk about it!

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I would deny that concept.
I think organic approaches and hydroponic media both have their strengths and their 'best solution' set of advantages. It's up to the gardener to make the choice that's best for them.

I think the best nutrients for neither approach come in a bottle full of water.

Dry nutrient salts are the same thing as the components of the vast majority of nutrient lines out there, they just cost less. They also tend to be easier to work with.

Having done organic grows in the past, I understand what is involved and that it too has its strong points. Those nutrients also tend to come in solid form, like 'compost', 'bone meal', 'chicken droppings', etc. One can even brew up their own water bottle style concoctions- teas- with them!
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Why because your organic?

Id say that's a pretty valid comment
I just feel that the plant knows best what it wants, when it wants it, and how much of it it wants. Great results can be achieved using salts, but to me that requires growing a strain several times to get a feel for it first.
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
I just feel that the plant knows best what it wants, when it wants it, and how much of it it wants. Great results can be achieved using salts, but to me that requires growing a strain several times to get a feel for it first.
Lol get off your organic high horse bruh Its clouding your brain
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
I just feel that the plant knows best what it wants, when it wants it, and how much of it it wants. Great results can be achieved using salts, but to me that requires growing a strain several times to get a feel for it first.
Thats the beauty of salts... they are predominantly used in hydro, which is very easy to dial in as you go. Takes 2 days to see the reaction of your npk mix.

I love my TLO but most organic heads are a little overly smug about organics... its not better, its different
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
I would deny that concept.
I would deny that concept.

Organic has become more of a political term than anything. In chemistry, organic simply means it contains a carbon molecule. It says nothing about quality, taste, nutritional content, or cleanliness. Plants grown with a high quality mineral based nutrient will always outperform organically grown plants in terms of growth rates. They will also have higher nutritional content. Taste is a hot issue so I will only say this: Hydroponic nutrients have the potential to make some very tasty and fragrant buds just like organics.


Based on these things it is obvious that people don't choose organic for any performance value, so there must be another reason. (for anyone who wants to say mineral nutes hurt the environment.....go back to school. When used correctly, there is no negative environmental impact whatsoever) If they think it is cleaner because hydro nutes contain chemicals, they are absolutely mistaken. Firstly, everything is a chemical. Water is a chemical. People need to stop saying things like "chemical fertilizers" and realize that organic nutes contain "organic chemicals". High quality hydro nutes are direct sourced from mines that pull minerals straight out of the earth. They are not contaminated during purification, and from a chemistry standpoint, the elements are in a superior form in terms of purity and availability. Organics relies on bacteria and enzymes breaking down decomposing organic material. Much of this material is feces. This is what always gets me. Ignorant organiphiles say that they don't want to give their plants hydro nutes because they don't want to consume the chemicals (this in itself is a retarded statement)..... but they will give their plants animal shit and then consume them..... what the fuck was that animal eating????? Think about what we give animals nowadays. Antibiotics, growth hormones, genetically modified foods, etc...... and then we want to put that on our plants, and consume them? Not to mention the fact that feces contains a ton of nasty shit that I don't want to be consuming. Did you know that food grown with human feces is considered organic?

Let me repeat that in a more dramatic fashion:

If you have every purchased organic produce from the store it is very possible that you have eaten produce grown with human feces.

In mexico they literally will use untreated sewage, straight from the sewers, to feed their organic crops. We get a ton of our organic produce from mexico.


Hydroponic crops contain none of this nastiness because the nutrients are clean. I would much rather eat (or smoke) clean plants with a higher nutritional content than plants grown using feces.



THAT BEING SAID

If you are a grower that uses earth worm castings and brews compost teas and has a little farm where you know exactly what your animals are eating and you use some of their feces, what you have is a beautiful example of a self sustaining cycle which will produce high quality crops without any investment in fertilizers. I have no problem with this whatsoever.

We know though that most "organic growers" are simply using crap they buy in a bottle which most likely contains sketchy ingredients, questionable ratios and elemental content, nasty animal feces, etc.......

Therefore, my problem is not with the concept of organic gardening, it is with the fact that most people have absolutely no idea what they are giving their plants but they think they are socially advanced because they are "organic gardeners". Drop the ego, get off your high horse, and accept organic formulas for what they are. ANOTHER WAY FOR COMPANIES TO MAKE MONEY.


Final words :

Self sustaining organic farms are sweet. People looking to grow organic should do it because it represents a natural approach to gardening. I think of it more like learning to live off the land. We are taking the decomposing organic matter and returning to the earth so that new plants can grow to feed the animals to make the feces to make more plants and so on and so on.

Since most of us cant keep a small self sustaining farm in our backyards we rely on nutrient companies to sell us organic fertilizers. This already defeats the concept because it is not self sustaining. People need to stop thinking of organic as just being what is fed to the plants and realize it should refer to a lifestyle choice. Buying general organics as opposed to general hydroponics does not make you an environmentalist. I have no problem with organics, just the people who grow using organics because they all seem to have their head 2 ft up their own ass and don't realize they are just making the same nutrient companies rich by buying their organic versions. I respect organic farmers and people who use organics for the right reasons. Other than that its a bunch of liberal douchebags who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

And let me reiterate one final time: Most organic nutrients contain a bunch of nasty shit beyond the things you want to give to your plants.

Personally, I would much rather give my plants top quality mineral nutrients and forget all the bullshit (literally).
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
How did you draw the conclusion that I'm sitting on a high horse from my comment?

You post some strange stuff bruh
Because of the interactions I've had with you on this site lol

You amd a lot of the strictly organic fellows are pretty stuck in your methods and seem to snicker at anything but TLO.

As someone who has been growing organically for 8 years I was basically shunned by you and a few others because I have "hydro" in my name :p

I dont think your a bad guy, I do sense some bias
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Because of the interactions I've had with you on this site lol

You amd a lot of the strictly organic fellows are pretty stuck in your methods and seem to snicker at anything but TLO.

As someone who has been growing organically for 8 years I was basically shunned by you and a few others because I have "hydro" in my name :p

I dont think your a bad guy, I do sense some bias
Go back and re-read the thread that you're referring to. I think you'll find that I didn't shun you at all. In fact I have no problems with people using organic bottled nutrients. I think there is a distinction to be made between an organic soil (which requires microbial intervention to mineralize the inputs) and soluble organic nutrients which are plant available, but I don't "shun" folks for doing whatever they chose.

I've actually been banned from an organic website because I called out the holier-than-thou organic purists for shitting on people that do things differently than they do.

I'd be happy to address a particular post if you felt I was being unfair.....
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrowmistaken11571144 said:
Go back and re-read the thread that you're referring to. I think you'll find that I didn't shun you at all. In fact I have no problems with people using organic bottled nutrients. I think there is a distinction to be made between an organic soil (which requires microbial intervention to mineralize the inputs) and soluble organic nutrients which are plant available, but I don't "shun" folks for doing whatever they chose.

I've actually been banned from an organic website because I called out the holier-than-thou organic purists for shitting on people that do things differently than they do.

I'd be happy to address a particular post if you felt I was being unfair.....
Perhaps I have you mixed with patthabi or whatever his name is lol.

What's funny is I dont use bottles in my TLO, but I do live next to a university that does biomass testing on the cheap and found that low chelated bottles do not have the drastic effects on microbes that seems to be the popular public opinion. (used sparingly, usually 1/3-1/4 of recommended)

When people argue that fact to the bitter end because it doesnt line up with their personal opinion I get a sense of smugness :)

Sorry to confuse you brotha

I still stand firm on the value of being able to dial in a strains specific needs through hydro. Helps a lot when ammending soil and needing some foresight
 

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
If ppl want good cheap one part synthetic nutrient than try Rock Nutrients from Australia. I did a couple runs with it and its verry good product. Highly recommend it.

Not as good as Canna or AN but its right there
 

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
Best purchase i made in awhile is the micro sprayer. Used it with the rock nutrient absorbalight. Shit is badass. Easiest runs i ever did with premium results and u only need 3 things for entire run.

Only costs about 100$ per light veg thru bloom.
 

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
Perhaps I have you mixed with patthabi or whatever his name is lol.

What's funny is I dont use bottles in my TLO, but I do live next to a university that does biomass testing on the cheap and found that low chelated bottles do not have the drastic effects on microbes that seems to be the popular public opinion. (used sparingly, usually 1/3-1/4 of recommended)

When people argue that fact to the bitter end because it doesnt line up with their personal opinion I get a sense of smugness :)

Sorry to confuse you brotha

I still stand firm on the value of being able to dial in a strains specific needs through hydro. Helps a lot when ammending soil and needing some foresight
I posted something similar yesterday, but deleted it soon after. It didn't feel rite at the time. I'll try again:
Is that university you're talking about UH Hilo by any chance? My best buddie majored in AG there. Did some crazy shit in them classes. We grew all around the big island. Mainly up in Volcano. Best tasting buds I remembered tasting was puna budder grown outdoors using osmocote and rain water.
I'm sure the organic only guys will have a hard time believing that though:-D
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
I posted something similar yesterday, but deleted it soon after. It didn't feel rite at the time. I'll try again:
Is that university you're talking about UH Hilo by any chance? My best buddie majored in AG there. Did some crazy shit in them classes. We grew all around the big island. Mainly up in Volcano. Best tasting buds I remembered tasting was puna budder grown outdoors using osmocote and rain water.
I'm sure the organic only guys will have a hard time believing that though:-D
I only live on the islands part of the year. I stay in Kailua on Oahu but have a lot of friends in Hilo and volcano on the bigs
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I'm compelled to address the shit in this thread. Specifically, the discussion about manure. The way it's being described (for hyperbole / effect / shock) by some, you'd think raw manure was used on plants, and that the raw shit is somehow being completely absorbed by the plant to create some shit-tomato.

Unfortunately this is completely and fundamentally flawed thinking. So flawed it's obviously being presented for some ignorant shock value.

Any manure is too N hot for direct root contact. We all know this. Any manure is aged for a year or more, allowing microbes to sequester ions, making it safe for root contact. Again, we all know this.

It's certainly worth also noting that microbes (including fungi here) are fantastically capable of reducing complex molecules such as antibiotics to their bare elements given time.
 
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