Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread
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st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Anyone else noticing a drop off in yield with no-till?
When I first started making my own soil I would dump it out at the end of every cycle, add a bit of fresh soil, re-amend, wet it down with a compost tea, and let it sit for a few weeks. I switched a while back to the no-till, and now I'm back to dumping the soil. The plants look great, but I can't seem to get the same yield when running no-till. I've tried bigger pots, smaller pots, fabric pots ..... and nothing seems to work as well as just dumping the soil and re-using it from there.
I'm guessing this is a compaction issue and not as much oxygen is getting to the root zone. Any thoughts?
When I first started making my own soil I would dump it out at the end of every cycle, add a bit of fresh soil, re-amend, wet it down with a compost tea, and let it sit for a few weeks. I switched a while back to the no-till, and now I'm back to dumping the soil. The plants look great, but I can't seem to get the same yield when running no-till. I've tried bigger pots, smaller pots, fabric pots ..... and nothing seems to work as well as just dumping the soil and re-using it from there.
I'm guessing this is a compaction issue and not as much oxygen is getting to the root zone. Any thoughts?
foreverflyhi
Well-Known Member
I know your on top of your game, but didn't see u mention strains. Could this be the issue?
Midwest Weedist
Well-Known Member
I've heard that very same complaint from an organic grower in Michigan. I don't have enough personal experience on the method to really speak on longterm.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I don't think so FFH. I've got 9 different strains on the go right now and they have all reacted the same. Nice and healthy in every way, but they just are not getting as big. I'd say the yield has dropped off by 25%. Switched back to dumping/re-amending the soil and they are back to the bigger plants that I'm used to. So strange. Really has me scratching my head. I guess I could cut back on the ewc and add more aeration when I make the soil...??
edit: 5 of these strains I've had around for a while, so I know what they should yield.
Mad Hamish
Well-Known Member
If it doesn't work just stop doing it. No ambiguity there. Maybe no till just doesn't suit the way you like to grow.
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
I use crushed "chicken feed" it's nothing but dried mealworms and crickets,
I started a thread about it a while back, works well for me.
foreverflyhi
Well-Known Member
Trying upping your aeration, sounds like maybe lacking oxygen. consider adding more rock dust? Mychos?
Joedank
Well-Known Member
i used to start with the whole bottom of ten gallons with a layer of lava rock... but no unless they get real sun the containers dont cycle nutes as fast so growth for heavy feeders is lacking. using a paint striainer on my vermi teas helped ALOT. they closed pores in my soil fast . there are many studies on unstrained vs strained ve topdressing.
strained tea and NO top dressing GASP are the way to go in small container gardenig IMHO...
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Hmm. I top dress the shit out of my containers (ewc) so that could be the issue. I thought switching to fabric pots would help things out, but it doesn't seem to be doing the trick.
Maybe I'll try one with no top dress and see if that works.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty heavy handed with the rock dusts. 3-4 cups per cf. Mychos aren't skimped on either.
Joedank
Well-Known Member
make what you would dress with into strained teas 1ml of sucanate or molasses and 1oz of casting per gallon is a good start for my small ones ..... sometimes i add dusts and such too the worm bin... drywall tooo...effing hillbilly
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen this yet, but it doesn't surprise me, and after all, our end goal is to simply grow great organic herb so if that entails dumping, re-amending and re-mixing, well... so be it, right?
Here is a pic of a beefy purple paralysis that never stopped foxtailing... after 90 days I pulled it anyways, typically I would never ever pull a plant early, but I sorta have a logjam of strains behind this beefy gal.
She got a little haggard being so damn old, but, she still has some serious weight.. and this is out of a 7 gallon, normally I only run 12 and 15s, but I wanted to see what she could do..
My camera sucks, sorry about that fellas.
look at the corkscrew foxtails though, kept throwing up fresh pistils..
that's the second run in that soil, no amending other than a comfrey topdress and a couple dandelion/comfrey teas.
Second run in a 7 gallon though, not bad for the weight, but as much as i'd love to take credit for that, I think that lady is just a fattie.
it's weird I have seen four different phenos for the purple paralysis, and this one is five times bigger than the rest, the others I am lucky to get 36 grams off each.
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st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
You add drywall to your worm bin? Can't say I've heard that before.
Midwest Weedist
Well-Known Member
@st0wandgrow What planter sizes/veg times do you run?
I have this theory about planter sizes and growth periods that could possibly explain the lack in yield.
I have this theory about planter sizes and growth periods that could possibly explain the lack in yield.
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
well shit, it is made from gypsum, so I guess that is a good way to get it.. if you can't find it..
I'd be worried about any flame-retardent chems or whatever they use to bind it with..
I'll be damned though...good idea.
I think?
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
It depends. I've been using 10 gallon fabric pots lately, but I will use a 7 gallon plastic pot for a couple strains that don't need so much leg room. Love to hear your theory though.....
edit: Forgot veg time. They get 2-3 weeks in a small 1/2 gal container, then 2-3 weeks in the final 7-10 gal container. Usually 5'ish weeks total
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greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
what do you re-amend with when you dump and till?
Anything you added that you normally wouldn't?
I think you may be onto something with your aeration theory.
I have so freakin much aeration in my mix, probably close to 50%. Rotten wood, perlite, pumice, biochar, volcanic rock, small strips of coco (actually work pretty well on keeping the soil from compacting if you use them vertically)
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
that's almost exactly the same thing I do for vege.
Clone to party cup, to half gal, to final smartpot
Midwest Weedist
Well-Known Member
I think planter size may be one factor to your loss of yield. If you're on Instagram go check out MountainOrganics feed (It's Coot from Icmag, I think) he runs 200 gallon beds.
It's a very incomplete theory as I'm still educating myself on the sciences of soils and plants. But essentially it's because we (I saw we become I and a lot of others) try to squeeze too much out of too little of soil, which is why I feel dumping acts / ssts is so necessary for a high rate of success in the no-till style of cannabis cultivation where small planters are used. Aside from feeling that our soil beds need to be much, much larger than most styles use (3 - 15 gallons) I feel that our soil also needs a "resting" period, similar to a winter month.
Do you use acts? Maybe if you can keep your micro heard at its capacity at all times you could avoid the loss in yield?
Another question I have that I've debated in my head for a while now is and maybe this is a bit philosophical, but what's more important to you, the amount of flower a plant yields or the capacity of its affect?
Obviously you don't want too little that it's not worth the cost of growing but at the same time what good does a massive amount of bud do for you if you could get the same potency from bud that has 25% less plant matter? Obviously weight doesn't directly equate to potency or potential affects, but I feel there is a strong correlation in the fight to have a high yield and the often lacking affects I find in plants grown to achieve said high yield. Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be chasing the numbers. But hey, I don't really know that much anyways, so what do I know lol.