Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[Midwest Weedist]

I often talk about how the outside effects inside grows. I've noticed it for years in all different styles of growing. Didn't matter if the room stayed at exactly the same temps and humidity levels, season seems to have an effect imo. I have also stepped up my teas adding more frequent, but low doses of alfalfa, kelp, neem, etc. More waterings than not I'll throw a pinch or two of kelp or whatnot and let it bubble for 24 hours. I also like to pull back the mulch and do a top dressing about week 2-3 of flower. I also add aeration to my top dressing.

My first not till did terrible. I let the soil sit way too long, didn't keep it moist enough, didn't plant a cover crop, didn't add near enough top dressing or teas. They faded quickly to say the least.

Don't know if any of this will help. Just a stoned ramble on a few things that helped my grows.

Peace!

P-

That could explain why my ginger root waited almost 8 months (until this spring) to sprout foliage, the season I mean.

 

[earthling420]

good info here on neem https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=290297
i have researched a omri cert. product called calcium-25 it is applied in full sun at 77+ deg! < was the first i heard of that !
systemic means taken in by the whole plant . now 5ml of neem in 2.5ml protec(ksil) in warm (75-85) water works wonders for my life . but if you have any reservations try it on one plant . if you see anything weird cut it out there are better ways to fight (or not) bugs .
the debateable systemic neem study> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/026121949500026I

thanks for the link!
wow that's cool and good to know, I went ahead a foliared a couple times with lights on no problems. light solutions though like silica amd humic. amd just plain water foliar too .
Doesn't the whole plant take in foliars too?
awesome thanks dank!
I think I finally beat the gnats but going to a neem foliar before I flip to flower.
Thanks everyone for the bug advice! It all helped!

 

[earthling420]

No. Use it pretty much immediately.

P-

Damn oh well lol pretty much do that with everything else. still love me some organics

 

[anzohaze]

Nothing unusual. Kelp, neem, alfalfa, crabshell all at 1/2 the amount initially used. Some fresh soil, a lil spm, and some aeration all added in equal parts.

I really think this is an aeration issue. I'm forced to use rice hulls as I can't find pumice or smaller lava rock to save my life, and I refuse to have it shipped. I think the hulls degrade a bit and don't serve their purpose so well over time. When I dump and re-amend I'm getting fresh hulls and fresh soil throughout the container so that fluffs it up a bit, which I obviously can't do with no-till.

Try going to Lowe's or home Depot and getting red lava rock. It's light and pourous and helps a lot. A .5 cubit foot bag is 4 dollars roughly and I use 3/4 of a bag per 15 gal As well as cowboy charcoal and.oyster shells.(thanks grease)

 

[Pattahabi]

thanks for the link!
wow that's cool and good to know, I went ahead a foliared a couple times with lights on no problems. light solutions though like silica amd humic. amd just plain water foliar too .
Doesn't the whole plant take in foliars too?
awesome thanks dank!
I think I finally beat the gnats but going to a neem foliar before I flip to flower.
Thanks everyone for the bug advice! It all helped!

Plants leaves do not allow the humic acid molecules through the stomata - they are too big. Better used in the soil. If you want to use a humic source, use a fulvic acid for foliar. The molecules are smaller and will permeate the leaves.

good info here on neem https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=290297
i have researched a omri cert. product called calcium-25 it is applied in full sun at 77+ deg! < was the first i heard of that !
systemic means taken in by the whole plant . now 5ml of neem in 2.5ml protec(ksil) in warm (75-85) water works wonders for my life . but if you have any reservations try it on one plant . if you see anything weird cut it out there are better ways to fight (or not) bugs .
the debateable systemic neem study> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/026121949500026I

Looks like they were using azadirachtin, not neem oil. This is not really correct, "A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A)" Formulation? More like extraction. This is one chemical out of over 300 that is in neem. Moral of the story, azamax is another bs hydrostore product that is designed to separate you from your money.

Peace!

P-

 

[Joedank]

Plants leaves do not allow the humic acid molecules through the stomata - they are too big. Better used in the soil. If you want to use a humic source, use a fulvic acid for foliar. The molecules are smaller and will permeate the leaves.

Looks like they were using azadirachtin, not neem oil. This is not really correct, "A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A)" Formulation? More like extraction. This is one chemical out of over 300 that is in neem. Moral of the story, azamax is another bs hydrostore product that is designed to separate you from your money.

Peace!

P-

NOT the whole story here ... if they knew how to trace the other300 molecules they would .
the POINT you are missing is the molecule was passed from root to leaf tip fom fertigation.... a molecule not needed for plant life.... hmmmmmmm very cool and inovative ... i would never adovcate a EXTRACT of neem over real NEEM ...
find fault if you need to but the point is neem can translocate without ever spraying it .... cool....
if your not using this site it rawks for teas and microbe pics for you microscope http://www.microbeorganics.com/
i also would avoid humic and fulvic acid EXCEPT as a folir as EWC has plenty of both . and excess of both can cause cleation of minerals you dont want accumilating in your plant....
wasteful gardening if you ask me .... humics and fulvic are SNAKE OIL ../.
a light read http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-95162010000100005

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Something occurred to me this morning as I was watching my plants "wake up" during lights on. I wonder if the success of our no-till containers has a high correlation to where our containers are; in a greenhouse, in your basement, the 3rd floor of an apartment, etc.
Obviously the containers that have a higher exposure to "outside" weather would have a higher population of beneficials, right? Or at least a better opportunity to populate said beneficials.

 

[Forte]

Does anyone use EM-1? I read that it's bad because it decomposes your soil fast.

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Does anyone use EM-1? I read that it's bad because it decomposes your soil fast.

Isn't that just a lacto innoculant that you'd use in a bokashi composting bin?

*Edit
I just looked it up. It's mostly water, the useful bits are different lactobacillus' and like 3 percent molasses as a food source for the microbes. I can't say for certain if it's "bad" for your soil, but from my experience it's not at all. I culture my own lactobacillus for a number of different things, I even goofed once and drenched multiple 3 gallon planters with an undiluted lacto serum to no ill affects.
I know you can use it to "drown out" bad populations of microbes in your soil.

 

[Pattahabi]

NOT the whole story here ... if they knew how to trace the other300 molecules they would .
the POINT you are missing is the molecule was passed from root to leaf tip fom fertigation.... a molecule not needed for plant life.... hmmmmmmm very cool and inovative ... i would never adovcate a EXTRACT of neem over real NEEM ...
find fault if you need to but the point is neem can translocate without ever spraying it .... cool....
if your not using this site it rawks for teas and microbe pics for you microscope http://www.microbeorganics.com/
i also would avoid humic and fulvic acid EXCEPT as a folir as EWC has plenty of both . and excess of both can cause cleation of minerals you dont want accumilating in your plant....
wasteful gardening if you ask me .... humics and fulvic are SNAKE OIL ../.
a light read http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-95162010000100005

I'm not missing the point, I know what you are getting at. We all love insecticides that keep on keeping on. I will say this, I have done azamax soil drenches... your plants will not thank you for it. I would opt for neem meal in the soil, and topdressed.

The point I'm trying to make is once they have extracted one compound out of the neem tree, they immediately created a new product with a hefty price tag and sold it in the hydrostores. From Coot:

Of the 3 compounds listed out of 22, Nimbin & Salanin are the strongest pesticide from this tree. It’s very difficult to isolate and extract which is why you don’t find much information about either one and you won’t find it in retail products at your local nursery.

Peace!

P-

 

[Forte]

Isn't that just a lacto innoculant that you'd use in a bokashi composting bin?

*Edit
I just looked it up. It's mostly water, the useful bits are different lactobacillus' and like 3 percent molasses as a food source for the microbes. I can't say for certain if it's "bad" for your soil, but from my experience it's not at all. I culture my own lactobacillus for a number of different things, I even goofed once and drenched multiple 3 gallon planters with an undiluted lacto serum to no ill affects.
I know you can use it to "drown out" bad populations of microbes in your soil.

Yeah, that's it. I was on the ICMAG LOS thread, and one the guys that started the thread said that adding that would cause your soil to decompose faster. I just bought a bottle so I wanted to see how it has worked for other people. How do you culture your own lacto, seems very interesting.

 

[earthling420]

Plants leaves do not allow the humic acid molecules through the stomata - they are too big. Better used in the soil. If you want to use a humic source, use a fulvic acid for foliar. The molecules are smaller and will permeate the leaves.

Looks like they were using azadirachtin, not neem oil. This is not really correct, "A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A)" Formulation? More like extraction. This is one chemical out of over 300 that is in neem. Moral of the story, azamax is another bs hydrostore product that is designed to separate you from your money.

Peace!

P-

Good lookin out Pat! I remember reading somewhere that Ful power is actually fulvic acids but because of some state laws they made it say humic? some sneakyshit lol but tthat's what I used was ful power. weird though cause humic acid powders amd ful power have directions for foliar feeds.

Haha I remember though whole discussion in here about neem and azomax. I really dont get it. of it's in neem along with a bunch of other stuff why not use the neem? that's like only taking one amino acid instead of protein. seems silly...

Would foliar feeding a SST be any good? or stick to soil?

Has anyone tried an essential oil blend on their plants? BAS has one just curious. im loving the neem.

 

[earthling420]

NOT the whole story here ... if they knew how to trace the other300 molecules they would .
the POINT you are missing is the molecule was passed from root to leaf tip fom fertigation.... a molecule not needed for plant life.... hmmmmmmm very cool and inovative ... i would never adovcate a EXTRACT of neem over real NEEM ...
find fault if you need to but the point is neem can translocate without ever spraying it .... cool....
if your not using this site it rawks for teas and microbe pics for you microscope http://www.microbeorganics.com/
i also would avoid humic and fulvic acid EXCEPT as a folir as EWC has plenty of both . and excess of both can cause cleation of minerals you dont want accumilating in your plant....
wasteful gardening if you ask me .... humics and fulvic are SNAKE OIL ../.
a light read http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-95162010000100005

im following what you saying. that is interesting.
Microbeorganics is the shizz! I need to brew me a tea soon.
Hm good to know.. I think ill lay off as like you said. lots of other chelators.
I can see it..

 

[earthling420]

Isn't that just a lacto innoculant that you'd use in a bokashi composting bin?

*Edit
I just looked it up. It's mostly water, the useful bits are different lactobacillus' and like 3 percent molasses as a food source for the microbes. I can't say for certain if it's "bad" for your soil, but from my experience it's not at all. I culture my own lactobacillus for a number of different things, I even goofed once and drenched multiple 3 gallon planters with an undiluted lacto serum to no ill affects.
I know you can use it to "drown out" bad populations of microbes in your soil.

lmao I remember that! glad no harm was done. Good times! lol

 

[earthling420]

I'm not missing the point, I know what you are getting at. We all love insecticides that keep on keeping on. I will say this, I have done azamax soil drenches... your plants will not thank you for it. I would opt for neem meal in the soil, and topdressed.

The point I'm trying to make is once they have extracted one compound out of the neem tree, they immediately created a new product with a hefty price tag and sold it in the hydrostores. From Coot:

Of the 3 compounds listed out of 22, Nimbin & Salanin are the strongest pesticide from this tree. It’s very difficult to isolate and extract which is why you don’t find much information about either one and you won’t find it in retail products at your local nursery.

Peace!

P-

Coot dont play. Dont fudge with Coot yall.

 

[earthling420]

check these out. Im thinking of putting the 2x2 in my 2x2.5 and the 2x4 in my 2x4 lol then put these mats underneath em ay?
The 2x4 has circles in it that I hope dont go all the way up. Im curious as to how much yeild would increase if I doubled or tripled soil volume. im only in a 10gal now and could easily go to a 20 gal in my 2x2.5

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00T3QSSRE/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1429312328&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=victory 8 cube&dpPl=1&dpID=51PJ0WYRe2L&ref=plSrch

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00D7LLEHW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1429267235&sr=8-1&keywords=victory 8 ez garden&dpPl=1&dpID=419cukCJQuL&ref=plSrch&pi=AC_SX200_QL40

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DP2DOYE?psc=1

 

[Joedank]

im following what you saying. that is interesting.
Microbeorganics is the shizz! I need to brew me a tea soon.
Hm good to know.. I think ill lay off as like you said. lots of other chelators.
I can see it..

love tim wilson and his ideas of scoping each BATCH of tea ...dont do what i say check out the link and look at the keys to your system . in my system bottles of rocks are not needed do to the biochar and coffee and castings ect ... all things to bring in the actiomytices that can eat that stuff ...
i do food production each season and have learned alot from the AG extentiion agents here phd n such. they say once or twice A YEAR is plenty for humic/ fulvic complexes that they tye up compounds and linger FOREVER..... they are so small its hard to tell/ see them ... like molasses less is more

 

[hyroot]

I know.we all use coots recipe even if adjusted. We get better yields and trichome production. One thing super soil has over other recipes is the colors it brings out in each plant. Now what is it that causes these colors to come out. I don't seem to get those colors at all. My 9lb hammer next to jinxproofs. Same structure and mine is a little more frosty but his has crazy colors. Again what is it in super soil that brings out these colors? Thousands of people can't be photoshopping their pics...

 

[earthling420]

love tim wilson and his ideas of scoping each BATCH of tea ...dont do what i say check out the link and look at the keys to your system . in my system bottles of rocks are not needed do to the biochar and coffee and castings ect ... all things to bring in the actiomytices that can eat that stuff ...
i do food production each season and have learned alot from the AG extentiion agents here phd n such. they say once or twice A YEAR is plenty for humic/ fulvic complexes that they tye up compounds and linger FOREVER..... they are so small its hard to tell/ see them ... like molasses less is more

I agree fascinating stuff to control a plants growth starting on microscopic level lol mindblowing.
And of course. I just use so much other great stuff I figured after what you said and I have a great soil. And ive used it multiple times now lol
That's badass, got inside connections haha
Daaaamn that's crazy. sure does justify the cost of the stuff a lot more lol

 

[earthling420]

I know.we all use coots recipe even if adjusted. We get better yields and trichome production. One thing super soil has over other recipes is the colors it brings out in each plant. Now what is it that causes these colors to come out. I don't seem to get those colors at all. My 9lb hammer next to jinxproofs. Same structure and mine is a little more frosty but his has crazy colors. Again what is it in super soil that brings out these colors? Thousands of people can't be photoshopping their pics...

Haha word. I was just messin around, Coot's bombs of knowledge and bossness just get me hyped lol
Huh, that's very stange. I havent seen any SS plants and am a noob so I got nothin else t add lol