My Best Guess on Outcomes of Marijuana Initiatives
- Thread starter TheMan13
- Start date
abe supercro
Well-Known Member
Certainly a nice transformation occurring in (southern) Oakland Cty. -perhaps cause for optimism- but Royal Oak is still iffy like Birmingham, or Troy.
TheMan13
Well-Known Member
It's the will and the "needs" of the government over the people, the constitution and the law brother. Trust them, they know best, just ask them. This "justice system"/institution has bills to pay and there's no money/business in real crime where they are still bound by those pesky first ten amendments (Bill of Rights), a majority of which this drug war has so easily disregarded through legal precedent.
Skylor
Well-Known Member
Yeah OK but hey Wash DC voted on legal weed for ALL adults and over there it passed by 69% of the vote....MM would have gotten 90% or more if they voted again for it.
Florida must has real assholes down there to refuse ill people MM
I agree going midterm was risky but it still should had passed. It just goes to show legal weed for all adults might not ever happen in all 50 states, not in our lifetimes or even our children. In fact, I worry that 25 years from now, I be looking back on 2014 and saying how these were the good old days. There is really nothing stopping the Feds from banning MM in every state. I agree it doesn't look likely but it could happen. Like I said before, who would had guess during Reagan war on drugs that weed would become legal for all adults in 2 make that 4 states ? Nobody, so whats going to happen in 25 more years ?
This is why changing federal law should be done, until that happens I won't totally relax. If we end up getting another jerk for president come 2016, it could spell more trouble ahead.
Maybe us older folks will be OK but once we are gone, then what ?
Florida must has real assholes down there to refuse ill people MM
I agree going midterm was risky but it still should had passed. It just goes to show legal weed for all adults might not ever happen in all 50 states, not in our lifetimes or even our children. In fact, I worry that 25 years from now, I be looking back on 2014 and saying how these were the good old days. There is really nothing stopping the Feds from banning MM in every state. I agree it doesn't look likely but it could happen. Like I said before, who would had guess during Reagan war on drugs that weed would become legal for all adults in 2 make that 4 states ? Nobody, so whats going to happen in 25 more years ?
This is why changing federal law should be done, until that happens I won't totally relax. If we end up getting another jerk for president come 2016, it could spell more trouble ahead.
Maybe us older folks will be OK but once we are gone, then what ?
Skylor
Well-Known Member
Well recall the police thought the MM act did not protect users from that zero tolerance drug driving law, some cops--and our AG--thought since state law said its illegal to drive with any amount of THC in ones bloodstream, that there for all MM users were breaking the law if they drove. Thankfully our supreme court ruled that wasn't the case, that is ridiculous to think that zero tolerance would apply to MM users since we have the right to use marijuana medically in Michigan.
Some people, even cops and lawyers, can be too bone headed to think straight sometimes. In SE Michigan they were OK, even Oakland county but some courts in SW Michigan really were trying to apply that zero tolerance drug driving law to MM users. How the issue ended up being decided by the highest court in the state. (in a way, it was cool they challenged the law, cause not one judge on the court agreed with them, lol )
Yeah this other issue is different and maybe this time they are correct by saying state law overrules it but cops and even our AG are not always correct in their thinking.
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Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
While the voter acceptance (as defined in the flood of communities acting on the local level) is very helpful, things really won't start changing on the local law enforcement level until state law is changed. To really affect the local level police, we have to do something about the forfeiture laws. As Michael Komorn pointed out, so long as the police can seize assets, they answer to no one, not even their own city councils, because they are 'self funding'.
Want to really hit them hard? Get an ordinance together that requires the police to turn over all seized assets to the city, or a charity. That takes out 'enforcement for dollars' and makes marijuana arrests less financially lucrative to the departments/narcotics teams. It would have to be on a county level I suspect to take into account the multi jurisdictional teams.
Dr. Bob
Want to really hit them hard? Get an ordinance together that requires the police to turn over all seized assets to the city, or a charity. That takes out 'enforcement for dollars' and makes marijuana arrests less financially lucrative to the departments/narcotics teams. It would have to be on a county level I suspect to take into account the multi jurisdictional teams.
Dr. Bob
Bigtacofarmer
Well-Known Member
See bob say something smart!
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Lol, perhaps you should listen more- you will find it is pretty common, but nice to see you read that one and liked it.
Marijuana laws are economically based, they always have been. First to suppress an industry and suppress the economic opportunities of racial minorities (by putting them in jail), then there is a whole legal system of lawyers, courts, probation departments, and prosecutors that make their living off of ruining others lives. The only ones that escape the system are those with the finances to pay into it with high priced legal teams and appeals. Take the money out of it and the system collapses and returns to delivering 'justice' for 'crimes' rather than collecting fees and assets.
Dr Bob
Skylor
Well-Known Member
Yeah check this story out
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/new-kids-on-the-block-pot-shops-draw-ire-of-neighbouring-businesses/article21534927/
The booming new marijuana industry has an image problem. Not with government officials and the public – but with other businesses.
From crime fears to smell complaints, new marijuana retailers and growers face suspicion and sometimes open antagonism from their commercial neighbours, especially in Denver, which now has 200 marijuana retailers and dozens of pot growing and manufacturing facilities.
The strife went public last week along a once-forlorn stretch of highway south of downtown Denver now sprinkled with marijuana shops.
About two dozen pot shops along this stretch of Broadway, often dubbed “Broadsterdam,” had a marketing idea for the upcoming holiday shopping season. Why not join forces with neighbouring antique shops to market the whole area as “The Green Mile”?
The pot shops called a meeting, expecting an enthusiastic response from neighbouring businesses that have seen boarded-up storefronts replaced with bustling pot shops with lines out the door. Instead, the suggestion unleashed a torrent of anger from the antique shops.
“We don’t want to work with you,” said James Neisler, owner of Heidelberg Antiques. “Your customers, they’re the long-haired stinky types. They go around touching everything and they don’t buy anything.”
The meeting went downhill from there. Despite the support of some neighbours – one quipped that stoned shoppers carrying lots of cash have been great for business – the proposal exposed simmering antagonism. The pot shops feel they’ve revitalized a blighted neighbourhood. Some tenants say pot has ruined a neighbourhood lined with storefronts that date to the 1940s.
It’s a clash that is playing out in other communities in Colorado and Washington that allow marijuana businesses – and could stretch to other states now that Alaska, Oregon and Washington, D.C., have all legalized recreational pot.
The central-Colorado city of Manitou Springs voted last week on whether to kick out recreational pot shops. The ballot measure was proposed by other business owners who complained a dispensary was harming the tourist town’s family-friendly reputation. The ballot measure failed.
Jason Warf, executive director of the Southern Colorado Cannabis Council, said his 30 or so members frequently clash with other businesses. In fact, his group was formed when existing chambers of commerce rejected cannabis-related members.
“They should accept us and embrace for what we’ve done, the jobs we’ve created and the tourists we bring,” Warf said. “And yet some mainstream business organizations are still demonizing cannabis.”
Warf said he spends much of his time negotiating smell complaints and other gripes between his members and their neighbours.
“Until cannabis is accepted nationwide, this is going to keep happening,” said Warf, whose group began in 2009. “We would love to work ourselves out of a job, but I think that’s a long time coming.”
Denver officials say marijuana is to blame for J.C. Penney’s decision in 2012 not to reopen a store on a downtown pedestrian mall. The retailer sought assurances it wouldn’t have to share entrance areas with marijuana dispensaries in a mixed-use development, a guarantee the city couldn’t make.
Jeremy Nemeth, chair of the Department of Planning and Design at the University of Colorado Denver, helped craft Colorado land-use regulations for the marijuana industry. He said it’s too soon for reliable data on whether marijuana shops depress property values. But preliminary studies indicate they don’t attract crime.
Nemeth said local zoning regulations frequently force pot shops to already-depressed parts of town, where they join the likes of firearms dealers and pornography shops.
“Some might talk about these shops as a blight on our neighbourhood, and others might say, ‘Really? They’re worse than the empty doughnut shop and the vacuum repair shop?“’ Nemeth said. “Are these new businesses really a bad idea? Or is it just a knee-jerk reaction? It’s too soon to say.”
There are some signs of a thaw in the business community. The Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce now has a handful of cannabis-related members.
And marijuana’s oldest arch-rival – alcohol – is showing interest. Last summer the Wine & Spirits Daily Summit met in Denver, and the group of several hundred invited an edible pot manufacturer and the leader of the marijuana-legalization campaign to speak.
“I never thought I’d be here,” said Mason Tvert, now spokesman for the national Marijuana Policy Project, before his remarks.
Back at the “Green Mile” meeting, dispensary owner Tim Cullen told his neighbours that pot isn’t going anywhere.
“We’re all in business on the same street together. Our goals are similar,” Cullen said.
The two sides planned to meet again to come up with a plan to live together.
“Pot shops are legal. We’re going to have to co-exist,” said Robert Crayne, owner of The Antique Exchange. “Things are changing and we’re trying to change with it. It’s just hard to strike that balance.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/new-kids-on-the-block-pot-shops-draw-ire-of-neighbouring-businesses/article21534927/
The booming new marijuana industry has an image problem. Not with government officials and the public – but with other businesses.
From crime fears to smell complaints, new marijuana retailers and growers face suspicion and sometimes open antagonism from their commercial neighbours, especially in Denver, which now has 200 marijuana retailers and dozens of pot growing and manufacturing facilities.
The strife went public last week along a once-forlorn stretch of highway south of downtown Denver now sprinkled with marijuana shops.
About two dozen pot shops along this stretch of Broadway, often dubbed “Broadsterdam,” had a marketing idea for the upcoming holiday shopping season. Why not join forces with neighbouring antique shops to market the whole area as “The Green Mile”?
The pot shops called a meeting, expecting an enthusiastic response from neighbouring businesses that have seen boarded-up storefronts replaced with bustling pot shops with lines out the door. Instead, the suggestion unleashed a torrent of anger from the antique shops.
“We don’t want to work with you,” said James Neisler, owner of Heidelberg Antiques. “Your customers, they’re the long-haired stinky types. They go around touching everything and they don’t buy anything.”
The meeting went downhill from there. Despite the support of some neighbours – one quipped that stoned shoppers carrying lots of cash have been great for business – the proposal exposed simmering antagonism. The pot shops feel they’ve revitalized a blighted neighbourhood. Some tenants say pot has ruined a neighbourhood lined with storefronts that date to the 1940s.
It’s a clash that is playing out in other communities in Colorado and Washington that allow marijuana businesses – and could stretch to other states now that Alaska, Oregon and Washington, D.C., have all legalized recreational pot.
The central-Colorado city of Manitou Springs voted last week on whether to kick out recreational pot shops. The ballot measure was proposed by other business owners who complained a dispensary was harming the tourist town’s family-friendly reputation. The ballot measure failed.
Jason Warf, executive director of the Southern Colorado Cannabis Council, said his 30 or so members frequently clash with other businesses. In fact, his group was formed when existing chambers of commerce rejected cannabis-related members.
“They should accept us and embrace for what we’ve done, the jobs we’ve created and the tourists we bring,” Warf said. “And yet some mainstream business organizations are still demonizing cannabis.”
Warf said he spends much of his time negotiating smell complaints and other gripes between his members and their neighbours.
“Until cannabis is accepted nationwide, this is going to keep happening,” said Warf, whose group began in 2009. “We would love to work ourselves out of a job, but I think that’s a long time coming.”
Denver officials say marijuana is to blame for J.C. Penney’s decision in 2012 not to reopen a store on a downtown pedestrian mall. The retailer sought assurances it wouldn’t have to share entrance areas with marijuana dispensaries in a mixed-use development, a guarantee the city couldn’t make.
Jeremy Nemeth, chair of the Department of Planning and Design at the University of Colorado Denver, helped craft Colorado land-use regulations for the marijuana industry. He said it’s too soon for reliable data on whether marijuana shops depress property values. But preliminary studies indicate they don’t attract crime.
Nemeth said local zoning regulations frequently force pot shops to already-depressed parts of town, where they join the likes of firearms dealers and pornography shops.
“Some might talk about these shops as a blight on our neighbourhood, and others might say, ‘Really? They’re worse than the empty doughnut shop and the vacuum repair shop?“’ Nemeth said. “Are these new businesses really a bad idea? Or is it just a knee-jerk reaction? It’s too soon to say.”
There are some signs of a thaw in the business community. The Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce now has a handful of cannabis-related members.
And marijuana’s oldest arch-rival – alcohol – is showing interest. Last summer the Wine & Spirits Daily Summit met in Denver, and the group of several hundred invited an edible pot manufacturer and the leader of the marijuana-legalization campaign to speak.
“I never thought I’d be here,” said Mason Tvert, now spokesman for the national Marijuana Policy Project, before his remarks.
Back at the “Green Mile” meeting, dispensary owner Tim Cullen told his neighbours that pot isn’t going anywhere.
“We’re all in business on the same street together. Our goals are similar,” Cullen said.
The two sides planned to meet again to come up with a plan to live together.
“Pot shops are legal. We’re going to have to co-exist,” said Robert Crayne, owner of The Antique Exchange. “Things are changing and we’re trying to change with it. It’s just hard to strike that balance.”
Skylor
Well-Known Member
Me stillsmoking saying that people rather just get high and buy less stuff.
I noticed I spend less cash when I got weed vs when I'm out. Not that I'm broke from buying weed, rather I just don't crave as much things to have fun. Even sex can take a back burner, well just a little bit,lol but I swear, if it wasn't for weed, I would have been a father by now. Sure I still love jumping in the sack for some fun but I don't feel as lonesome when I have lots of weed to enjoy.
When I used to drink in my 20's, I still spent lots of cash and was trying to get laid at any chance I got. In fact one big reason I stop drinking all together was cause I used to later regret doing some stuff when I was drunk. I can think of a couple of gals I don't believe I ever would had touched if it wasn't for the fact that I was drunk at the time.
Birth rates are a biggie, no country wants brith rates to go down--well expect China because they have way too many people. Most countries want people to have lots of children so later on their labor force is well supply. If people start having lots less children, in 20--40 years, it would cause some major problems...why I believe we never will have birth control pills for males. Sure we got condoms but the female knows you are wearing one. Same with vasectomies, they catch on after a while if the guy never ejaculates , lol.
I noticed I spend less cash when I got weed vs when I'm out. Not that I'm broke from buying weed, rather I just don't crave as much things to have fun. Even sex can take a back burner, well just a little bit,lol but I swear, if it wasn't for weed, I would have been a father by now. Sure I still love jumping in the sack for some fun but I don't feel as lonesome when I have lots of weed to enjoy.
When I used to drink in my 20's, I still spent lots of cash and was trying to get laid at any chance I got. In fact one big reason I stop drinking all together was cause I used to later regret doing some stuff when I was drunk. I can think of a couple of gals I don't believe I ever would had touched if it wasn't for the fact that I was drunk at the time.
Birth rates are a biggie, no country wants brith rates to go down--well expect China because they have way too many people. Most countries want people to have lots of children so later on their labor force is well supply. If people start having lots less children, in 20--40 years, it would cause some major problems...why I believe we never will have birth control pills for males. Sure we got condoms but the female knows you are wearing one. Same with vasectomies, they catch on after a while if the guy never ejaculates , lol.
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Skylor
Well-Known Member
Dumb freaken cops, check this out, Grand Rapids is taking a local law to the appeals court, I guess they do have to respect local laws and are hoping the appeals court agrees with them that state law does trump local laws
http://www.minbcnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=1121485
DETROIT (AP) -- A Grand Rapids law that makes possession of small amounts of marijuana a small civil offense is being challenged this week at the Michigan appeals court.
The arguments Friday come as more Michigan communities are choosing to take it easy on pot. Voters in six cities last week approved proposals to allow use on private property or make enforcement of marijuana laws a low priority for police. Five more voted no.
In Grand Rapids, marijuana possession is akin to a traffic ticket, with fines ranging from $25 to $100. Voters in 2012 approved it by nearly 60 percent.
But the Kent County prosecutor, Bill Forsyth, is challenging the law. He says Grand Rapids voters can't trump state law, which makes marijuana use a crime.
http://www.minbcnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=1121485
DETROIT (AP) -- A Grand Rapids law that makes possession of small amounts of marijuana a small civil offense is being challenged this week at the Michigan appeals court.
The arguments Friday come as more Michigan communities are choosing to take it easy on pot. Voters in six cities last week approved proposals to allow use on private property or make enforcement of marijuana laws a low priority for police. Five more voted no.
In Grand Rapids, marijuana possession is akin to a traffic ticket, with fines ranging from $25 to $100. Voters in 2012 approved it by nearly 60 percent.
But the Kent County prosecutor, Bill Forsyth, is challenging the law. He says Grand Rapids voters can't trump state law, which makes marijuana use a crime.
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Skylor
Well-Known Member
Yeah cops, lawyers, even prosecutors and chief of police officers can say what ever they like but it doesn't mean they are always correct....no matter what the appeals court rules, it will be up to the state supreme court if state law does trump local laws---another words, we won't know what will happen until sometime next year or even until 2016.
Least us MM users can relax, I'm still hoping thou, the more people who can't be arrested for just having a little bit of weed, the better, IMO
Least us MM users can relax, I'm still hoping thou, the more people who can't be arrested for just having a little bit of weed, the better, IMO
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Bigtacofarmer
Well-Known Member
I read a lot of what you say. I like this because it encourages actual action instead of suggesting people obey poorly written laws. I feel the same way about all business. You don't like GMO, don't give the compnanies your money, you don't like cops, don't pay them. Taking the funds away from the enemy is the only way to make them listen, without using violence like them.
Keep encouraging acts of cival disobedience and anarchism and I'll keep listening.
Bigtacofarmer
Well-Known Member
From within you look just like the people we need to change. The people that have no idea what you do never will that way. The people that already know what you do already have there mind made up. I've been pro cannabis for a long time and I'm sure the money has been anti cannabis even longer. And they still pretend to operated within the system, they are just better armed and paid for by our losses. I sure don't want to look like one of them.
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
pity they never looked, but enough have and know what I do, and that is enough for me. It never ceases to amaze me that some folks think I am in any way anti cannabis. Guess those are simply folks that don't pay much attention to what actually goes on vs what they wish was going on.
Dr Gruber
Well-Known Member
Have you read the graphic novel? Much better then the movie.
cephalopod
Well-Known Member
forecast fascist future
GregS
Well-Known Member
Would you like to play a game? Dealing with excessive police intrusion has been handled pretty well historically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xzCEdSKMkdU
BTW, I have an activation code for Assassin's Creed Black Flag if anyone is interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xzCEdSKMkdU
BTW, I have an activation code for Assassin's Creed Black Flag if anyone is interested.