giving defoliation during flower a try

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Doing "less with less" an interesting concept. Moving out of your Moms house would be a great start to a decent grow for you and the wee fucker.
Um nope, actually you can veg for way longer so youll maximize your light usage. You know, for guys that use lights to flower.
I saw your pictures on a different thread. Nice outdoor. Im trying to explain about a scrog here, flip over to the new posts page, theres a whole section on indoor growing and i just saw a thread called "scroggers unite" or something. 4776 posts. Are you going to stand on a soap box too and tell those guys that trimming under the screen is counter productive?
Maybe a new thread called scroggers are stupid for defoliating under the screen.......see how that turns out for ya, bring Ben, maybe you guys can turn the whole scrogging community into believers. Just flash a shot of your outdoor, theyll all be believers in no time.
Cummon, its nice that your sticking up for your friend, hes smart, he knows a lot, but hes wrong and that 4776 post thread (im sure theres more scrog threads) will tell you guys (with pictures) that hacking everything off is a good thing....good thing.....under the screen.
You know im right so im done trying to teach old dogs new tricks for now. Just read the scroggers thread and itll become clearer.
 

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Doing "less with less" an interesting concept. Moving out of your Moms house would be a great start to a decent grow for you and the wee fucker.
Oh and i own a farm, with a REAL big tractor, LOTS of animals, a real big garden or two ;) i dont really know what this has to do with removing some leaves from under the canopy but i figured id point it out since you implied i still lived at home with mom. I helped out the wee fucker cause nobody else would. He asked for help with his dying plants and everyone laughed at the guy. A bunch of assholes with no time for a young buck with two dying plants told him to kill them and start over and that he had the worst looking plants theyd ever seen and there was no point in keeping them. They were wrong.
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
MicroKote "fucked" up your moms? Been using a similar product for many years and never had a problem. It does what it's supposed to do, create a super efficient fibrous rootball. If you applied it correctly it should help, not hurt. Witness - https://www.rollitup.org/t/spin-out-for-chemical-root-pruning.9114/

Something else going on me thinks.
It was the microKote. I tranplanted 1/2 of them and the ones i did are having way less issues with leaf dropping. Its alll good. I got it figured out and lesson learned. Besides i am heading back to AIS for seedlings and all. the temps are good enough now i can do it when i havest. Lots of work so around mid november.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
A document (from again the same university) about the ambition to create climate neutral greenhouses in 2020 mentions the use of diffuse glass (better spread) and double glazing (assuming for the same reason I got them in my home, keep the cold out and the warmth in).

The type of diffuse glass used lets through as much light as clear glazing and according to research (again same uni) allows for 25% more plant (I assume upwards...). Some greenhouses chalk their glazing during the few months we get sun, the diffuse glazing is an alternative to that but without losing daylight.

A lighting test (led+hps hybrid) with diffuse glazing showed that even during the winter, when most PAR comes from the bulbs and not the light, using diffuse glazing led to 5% more yield (tomatoes).

Extra branches under diffuse glazing. Less stress at the top, better light penetration ensuring all leaves contribute maximally to photosynthesis. Quality is better too (no hard light directly on the fruits).

Hard to find anything related that doesn't talk about the diffuse glazing trend.

Some use polycarbonate or acrylate (not sure I translated those correctly...) instead of glazing, probably cheaper not better.

Another thing, AR coating (anti-reflection, to reflect the light back that reflects up, also deals with light pollution), the one created by groglass.com has shown to increase the amount of light on the crops with 8%.

Found some research comparing high to low greenhouses which explains most want high greenhouses as they are more suitable for artificial lighting... despite being more costly to keep warm (unless using the AR coating with makes the height less relevant). Quite a few pros and cons, having to hang lights higher isn't one of them.

Quite a bit of research that shows the advantage of LED, in particular using LED for supplemental lighting, i.e a hybrid setup (SON-T hps with led)... let's not give the LED folks any more ammo :D
Again, VERY interestng data. Thanks.

My greenhouse is covered with a polycarbonate light diffusing Palram SolarSoft glazing.
 

stankyyank

Active Member
He offered a piece of wisdom - "There are many foundations of botany that have been firmly established."

That means, learn what makes a plant tick. Why don't you remove buds instead of leaves? Buds don't produce, they only take.
Buds do produce, in a backwards sort of way. It is my understanding that Trichs actually do use light (including UVb) to convert the various compounds into the desired cannabinoids, such as CBD, CBG, and THC. Setting aside whether Defol impacts overall yield or not, where does bud quality come in to the argument? I can't imagine that many folks take samples from the top and bottom of their plants for testing and comparison, but I'd be willing to bet an ounce that there's a notable difference between the two, even if one harvested the upper and lower portions at their respective harvesting/maturation times, Unless one was growing Vert, I'd expect the top to have higher levels of THC. Just my two cents.
 
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Le Cochon

Active Member
(Experienced Growers Only) Controversial Defoliation Increases Marijuana Yields

by Keef Treez "The Defoliator"

Defoliation is an extreme marijuana growth technique. It's not to be done lightly.

In fact, the topic of defoliation is one of the most controversial subjects in the marijuana growing field. People on both sides defend their position vehemently.

I'm on the side that believe there is absolutely nothing stressful about defoliation or bending branches. Honestly, there is no way to achieve nearly a pound of buds from a 2-3 foot tall plant indoors, except using defoliation.

Opponents often have arguments like, "PLANTS NEED THOSE LEAVES! If they didn't, they wouldn't be there."

Or my all-time favorite, "I have a friend who used to grow, and he insists that will hurt the plant."

Yet the saddest part of all is how so few people are willing to look at the evidence.

In some ways, I almost would prefer the rest of the growing world keep up their ill-advised lollipopping, removing growing tips, and other low-yield techniques. The defoliation technique has been loudly condemned by "experienced" growers for decades. Nevertheless, I am determined to educate other growers about defoliating and let them see the results for themselves.

So let me start by giving you some picture proof that defoliation works (make sure you scroll down to see all of them!).

You see, I've been defoliating intensively for 30 years. I am now training plants to be 32" tall and 32" round and yielding 250-400 grams under 400 watt lamp.

Yes, that's right, he said 8-14 OUNCES of
buds of marijuana harvested off each short, easy-to-manage 32" tall plant, using
just a regular 400 watt HID grow light.


Here are two of my beauties (the one on the right needs a good plucking)





How-To Tutorial: The Controversial Technique of Defoliation
Despite all the evidence (I've posted hundreds of pictures and shown dozens of growers in person), there is still somehow so much skepticism about defoliation techniques. Growers, especially new growers, often just say variations of, "It's common sense, how could removing any part of the plant cause you to get higher yields?"

I recently attended an advanced seminar with a prominent fellow grower and got roundly booed when attempting to describe the defoliation technique, even with pictures showing dramatic benefits.

Unlike many other growers, I believe what's most important is studying how the plant actually grows, instead of assuming she grows how we think she should grow. Real experimentation and unbiased observers are the only way growers are going to learn how to get the best yields for the amount of time, money, and effort.

And it's true that some types of defoliation are brutal to the plants (such as when misguided growers removing all the leaves off extremely young marijuana plants), but other types of defoliation are actually hugely beneficial to increasing yields (I'll be showing you exactly what do do shortly).

And defoliation is beneficial for more than just marijuana, it also has been proven to increase yields for certain other types of crops. For example, it's well-known that cowpeas experience significant increases in yields when up to 50% of their leaves are defoliated during their flowering stage... (source)

This marijuana girl is 32" tall (the dimensions of this girl are 32"x32"x32" to be exact). She was intensely defoliated throughout her life.


And it's true that the real beauty of defoliation is difficult to translate in pictures and verbally.

But I will do my best to give you everything you need to start producing your own huge yields with marijuana defoliation.

But First, Let Me Show You About Increased Bud Production With Defoliation During the Flowering Stage

Before plucking





Immediately After Plucking





Just 4 days later, look at the incredible bud growth





Only 4 Days After That (after another defoliation session)



Are you beginning to see the power of defoliation?

Sweet mother of Jesus! Friend, I for one, appreciate the time and the effort you put forth providing us with this side of the debate and with precisely the pictures we crave to see. I am having a second grow with a monster LED light (Platinum DS 1200 for a 4x5 space) and my plants are exploding with fan leaf growth that I have never seen before. I want to trim some but I was consumed with irrational fear and no science to back it up. But it does make sense that the overall plant will have more light reaching more chlorophyll organelles. I will take pictures before I do it and after....Thanks again!
 

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
Ben if you dont want to defend yourself and butt heads then dont tell growers to not do what they need to for better product. Not everyone on this site lives on the californian coast with 1000 acres of tucked away real estate and green houses as far as the eye can see. Some of them have one closet....less than six feet of space between the floor and bulb, one seed, and one light and are trying to make that plant be all it can be.

Sounds like a job for scrog or lst to me. Oooor would you rather they use uncle bens topping technique and flower at 12 inches cause their running sour D or Malawi and itll head butt the light if you dont train and screen it. I helped a wee fucker one time grow in a cab half the size of your fridge and he rocked that shit like Cleveland crack.
If he didnt do "crazy" things with his grow like lst and screen hed have had two plants....run 12/12 from seed. And a couple measly grams to smoke, instead he filled that box and now he has decent grows that produce. Hed tell you what were all telling you, theres a time and a place for it Ben, and you can take your theory and plant it :lol: but whats funny is that you would, hed say pound sand old man, and youd tell him that he like everyone else, is stupid for even considering it. *face palm**double face palm* :lol:
Do you know why Ben the Twat is fixated on over stretching? He only uses veg nutes.... He's an idiot..... He smokes weed full of nitrogen. I know guys like him, they're adlebrained.
 

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
image.jpg Lollipopped and defoliated. The only way to grow. 3 gallon pots and 3' plants and I'll get 3 ounces of big top dense bud. And I never worry about overstretch. My pots control that so they only stretch a few inches for Indica's and less then a foot for sativa's.
 

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
And I don't defoliate for light penetration, I'd do it because the plant is more efficient at makeing buds at the end of the branch then at the beginning. The branch will make bigger buds because of it. It has to be a fully rooted plant. If you've never done it at different levels and at different times, your missing out. Must get a strain figured out to get the most from it. Same with lollipopping.
 

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Sorry didnt read the lst 27 pages but id like to know if what i hear is true. some say to only take off yellowing leaves,,others say to trim shade leaves to get light to lower buds, which i do. but ive also heard now that 2 weeks before harvest you can basically trim all the leaves so that for the last 2 weeks only the buds recieve light..i worry trimming that much at once, wouldnt it stress the hell out of your plant if not kill it?? is the normal recomendation to just take off a couple ieaves a day to help light penetrate the plant??
 

J.Mike

Member
It's really to the point of laughable, those that have opinions that result in telling others how "dumb" they are, or posting negative shit, because you have no respect for others. No initials needed here, you ALL know who you are, problem is we are new, noobs, ignorant, uninformed and looking for answers, and trying to learn from some that actually care about helping and teaching others, then ALL you hypes come in thinking you are all that, spouting insults and derogatories off with the intelligence of a gnat,....So yeah I read right over you all, and take in the positive, people trying to help people, responses. I am so hoping that the mods see fit to incorporate an A-holes only channel, and frankly ban you to it, then you can argue with each other all day, and maybe those new people that are looking for opinions and questions will actually get some help from those that care more than for their own ego. Of course I expect some foul mouth pos to comment, save it, for the funnies...
 

stankyyank

Active Member
can someone please answer my previous question???
The answer to your question depends on a lot of factors. What's the strain/phenos resistance to stress? How is the general health of the plant? Also how often one prunes and how much they prune back can affect the plant. I think a safe rule of thumb for pruning (namely the fan leaves and what will becomes larfy popcorn) is to never remove more than 20% of the plant in a given session and giving plenty of time to recoup before the next pruning. In regards to defoliation and pruning vs. letting nature take it's course, one should look at the grape vine. It's best and most flavorful yields require more than proper nutrient and watering (or lack thereof) to be achieved, and the vine itself must be put under some demand to work the plant. If the vine was to simply "go to seed", aka reproduce itself through seed, the profile of the grape wouldn't matter, and obviously, letting nature take its course would be the preferred method. But for the purpose that we use grapes, the better crop is not grown without pruning and stress. This includes timing, putting a load on the plant to drive the roots deeper, pulling nutrients from deep down enhancing the flavor and preserving the vine in times of drought. Yes, before a naysayer says anything, it's apples to oranges (well, grapes to buds), but the example stands to show that not all is perfected by nature for secondary uses. If you go pulling healthy leaves during a flush, the plant will be pulling it's reserves from elsewhere. If you over-do the defol, it could shock the plant and delay the finish. No one can answer your question with 100% certainty, but lots of people do pull the leaves. Although, I'd keep searching the forums to see what others are doing and with picture evidence to backup their claims. I apologize if this isn't a good enough reply to your question.
 
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