Getting rid of hermie pollen

M4verick

Well-Known Member
Sup guys,

Some of my LA Woman from DNA Genetics turned out to be hermie, I'm definitely not gonna keep up with them in the future, Royal Queen Seeds seems like a much safer bet from what I've heard and seen everywhere.

Anyways, I'm familiar with cleaning a growroom, I use a black & decker steam mop to kill everything... Just wanted to know if I should spray my ventilation system as well ? Don't wanna hurt the CFM unit but I don't think a bit of steam would do any damage... I just wanna be a 100% clean for my next round, I'll be germinating the next batch during the drying process, early november. So ventilation cleaning is a must ?

Oh and FUCK DNA GENETICS
They might have some killer strains but sooo fucking instable I can't even believe it... I guess $$$ changes ethic sometimes...

Live and learn.
 

DemonTrich

Well-Known Member
ive had hermies the past 3 grows with a certain strain. mine is due to a light leak (im hoping) and its been fixed. I basically sprayed and wiped everything down 6x (2x bleach water, 2x iso water, 2x water). everything got decontaminated and wiped down. inside ductwork, fans, oscillating fans torn down, washed, rebuilt, hoods taken apart, ect.

week 6 is when they start to show if if they are gonna show up. ive got about 4 days left. fingers crossed im over the hermie issues.
 

M4verick

Well-Known Member
ive had hermies the past 3 grows with a certain strain. mine is due to a light leak (im hoping) and its been fixed. I basically sprayed and wiped everything down 6x (2x bleach water, 2x iso water, 2x water). everything got decontaminated and wiped down. inside ductwork, fans, oscillating fans torn down, washed, rebuilt, hoods taken apart, ect.

week 6 is when they start to show if if they are gonna show up. ive got about 4 days left. fingers crossed im over the hermie issues.
What strain exactly ? I'm curious...

And what was the size of the light leak that you fixed ? Was it huge or a tiny tiny hole ? I wonder if shit like that can make a difference... Especially if the room stays dark during the night periods. I have 2 super small holes in my tent but not even an ant could crawl in it... I wonder if that could be the cause but that would be fucking ridiculous. It's not like a sunray or anything could go through it.

Pretty sure that my problems are genetics related... I'm not an expert grower (yet) but I try to do my best for every step every session. Everything is accurate... Humidity, temperatures... I'll see what Royal Queen Seeds has to offer. I want some STABLE shit ffs.
 

DemonTrich

Well-Known Member
it all started when I added a new clone tent into my grow area 27 weeks ago. my flower room 8" air intake faced the clone tent opening. a few times I did work in the clone tent when the flower room was lights off, so the tent light was getting in thru the intake fan. all my hermie cycles started with the plant directly in front of the intake fan. I also have an 18 oscillating fan directly next to the plant in front of the intake fan. after a few nanners would ripen and spew their vial pollen, the oscillating can would blow that pollen onto near by plants. week 6 is when I usually noticed the nanners. I have 5 days to go with this round. if I don't see any nanners, my light leak issue though was correct. I have my flower room fully enclosed with 6ml contractors plastic with 5' overlapping flaps/walls so to speak. im am 100% certain I have no light leaks.

if im still getting nanners this round on this strain, then this prized strain are is gettingshit canned.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
All you have to do to make pollen unviable is wet it, pretty well anything will do, I use a diluted bleach solution in between runs just because I'm anal about a clean environment but there's not much to worry about as long as you wipe/clean everything down with any sort of cleaner. I blow a big fan in there for a few hours after wiping/cleaning and then stick the next run in.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Switching from DNA Genetics to RQS because you got hermies and want "stable shit" is likely going to have ironic results. Just a friendly heads up...

You're not the first who gets hermies from LA Woman seeds so not saying it's grower error, but better make sure before blaming the breeder. Even a stable strain can be stressed to spawn nanners, with most unstable crosses nowadays you have to be extra prudent. A light leak an ant can't crawl through isn't a problem though.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
I used to really like DNA Genetics. 5+ years ago their strains were top shelf. Their Cataract Kush was one of the few OG crosses that you could get legit OG phenos from seed and it was fire. The most recent pack of CK was less than stellar. Other strains I have grown are hit and miss. Their old school strains are still good, just so many other breeders have caught up and in some cases passed their old school strains.
 

M4verick

Well-Known Member
Switching from DNA Genetics to RQS because you got hermies and want "stable shit" is likely going to have ironic results. Just a friendly heads up...

You're not the first who gets hermies from LA Woman seeds so not saying it's grower error, but better make sure before blaming the breeder. Even a stable strain can be stressed to spawn nanners, with most unstable crosses nowadays you have to be extra prudent. A light leak an ant can't crawl through isn't a problem though.
Do you have experience with RQS ? All my friends who also had hermies with DNA switched back to RQS... They think It's more stable, but that's just my 2 cents. At the end of the day, I think we can agree on the fact that DNA strains are not the most bulletproof on the market and that any little stress can apparently trigger hermies... I wonder how the fuck it is possible to get good results with them tho. Been extra careful on every step.

A friend had great results with Lemon Skunk but that strain seems to be a homerun with them...

And I'm not saying that DNA is wack. Their genetics is FIRE... Maybe I'll throw some regulars and select a female to get a mother. That's the only way to go cause their fem seeds really suck... Won't take another chance this way.
 
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Sativied

Well-Known Member
Look, it was just a friendly heads up. And that was all the friendliness I had to share this week.... now for the blunt truth:

Do you have experience with RQS ?
Not with their own, I avoid those based on bad experiences of "all my friends". The way you speak about DNA genetics is how many Dutch growers talk about RQS. RS has a nice location near the Dam which makes them popular amongst tourists, opposed to DNA genetics who's hidden in an alley and needs to have good genetics of their own. RQS seeds is a typical example of what I refer to as tourists seeds aka souvenirs...

At the end of the day, I think we can agree on the fact that DNA strains are not the most bulletproof on the market and that any little stress can apparently trigger hermies...
No, I don't agree at all.

All my friends who also had hermies with DNA switched back to RQS... They think It's more stable, but that's just my 2 cents.
I smell bullshit... are you really saying you have multiple friends? And they ALL had hermies with DNA and ALL switched to RQS... but it's just your 2 cents... you're not fooling anyone..

The reality is that you are trying to blame the breeder to desperately convince yourself it wasn't you, like most people who get hermies it's grower error and not genetics (it's what cannabis does when you stress them). See my link about intellectual honesty, you're not helping yourself (other than your hurt ego perhaps) making up friends who had the same situation.

It's your own fault, get over it. No need to slander DNA because you got hermies.
 

M4verick

Well-Known Member
Look, it was just a friendly heads up. And that was all the friendliness I had to share this week.... now for the blunt truth:

Not with their own, I avoid those based on bad experiences of "all my friends". The way you speak about DNA genetics is how many Dutch growers talk about RQS. RS has a nice location near the Dam which makes them popular amongst tourists, opposed to DNA genetics who's hidden in an alley and needs to have good genetics of their own. RQS seeds is a typical example of what I refer to as tourists seeds aka souvenirs...

No, I don't agree at all.

I smell bullshit... are you really saying you have multiple friends? And they ALL had hermies with DNA and ALL switched to RQS... but it's just your 2 cents... you're not fooling anyone..

The reality is that you are trying to blame the breeder to desperately convince yourself it wasn't you, like most people who get hermies it's grower error and not genetics (it's what cannabis does when you stress them). See my link about intellectual honesty, you're not helping yourself (other than your hurt ego perhaps) making up friends who had the same situation.
It's your own fault, get over it. No need to slander DNA because you got hermies.
Haha wow... Dude, you need to smoke something. It's a known fact that feminized seeds are actually not 100% fem and can turn hermie. I know that, you know that. Yes, stress can cause it (and I already know that, again) but I didn't stressed them so that's pretty much the end of the story. Unless you count topping as a stress, which it is but seriously, If topping makes a plant go herm' then WTF.

And I'm the first to say that DNA has their own (fire) genetics, unlike RQS who makes new with old. I know that as well... But I want something stable and I'm far from being the only one on this website or anywhere else to have herm issues with DNA. Their stuff is awesome, but regular, not feminized.

So, no, it ain't my fault. But since you seem to know me so well then whatever haaaaa
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
It's a known fact that feminized seeds are actually not 100% fem and can turn hermie. I know that, you know that.
Nonsense, not a fact at all, just typical forum bullshit. Regular females can turn hermie too, males can have intersex traits too... Thousands of idiots parroting something doesn't make it fact, just more widespread bullshit. I could suggest to read any of my extensive posts about feminized seeds but you don't strike me as the guy that is interested in the facts so I will respond as usual: "Sure, blame it on feminized seeds".

Unless you count topping as a stress, which it is but seriously, If topping makes a plant go herm' then WTF.
Well, yes, excessive pruning can cause full blown sex reversal, but I agree topping alone isn't going to do that, or at least shouldn't. However if you top it late, during the time it starts to commit to its sexual expression... it can be a contributing factor. What else did you do? Let's see, fans blowing at the plants making them cold, overdose nutrients (nute shock is yet another effective means to create hermies), unstable climate/environment (tent)... Instead of blaming the breeder or blaming fem seeds you should blame yourself and go from there, it'll be more fruitful (pun intended..)

So, no, it ain't my fault. But since you seem to know me so well then whatever haaaaa
That's your problem right there, you are taking it personal and out of insecurity desperately look to place the blame elsewhere. It's why I'm fucking with you, but my intentions are not mean-spirited. I don't have to know you personally, it's a cliche scenario just as your reaction to the situation. "Some" of your LA woman hermied is another strong indication it's not the strain but you. So again, it's very likely your own fault. Everybody makes mistakes man. It's how you learn from them that matters, and that's where you're going all wrong (especially if you go from DNA to RQS...).
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
But I want something stable and I'm far from being the only one on this website or anywhere else to have herm issues with DNA. Their stuff is awesome, but regular, not feminized.
No you're not the only one growing herms from DNA seeds, same goes for all other breeders and seed banks... And just to show how far your head is up your ass blinding you from reality:

"At Royal Queen Seeds, we sell only feminized cannabis seeds."

DNA has both regular and fem. RQS pollen chucks females from actual breeders...

You're welcome.
 

M4verick

Well-Known Member
Nonsense, not a fact at all, just typical forum bullshit. Regular females can turn hermie too, males can have intersex traits too... Thousands of idiots parroting something doesn't make it fact, just more widespread bullshit. I could suggest to read any of my extensive posts about feminized seeds but you don't strike me as the guy that is interested in the facts so I will respond as usual: "Sure, blame it on feminized seeds".

Well, yes, excessive pruning can cause full blown sex reversal, but I agree topping alone isn't going to do that, or at least shouldn't. However if you top it late, during the time it starts to commit to its sexual expression... it can be a contributing factor. What else did you do? Let's see, fans blowing at the plants making them cold, overdose nutrients (nute shock is yet another effective means to create hermies), unstable climate/environment (tent)... Instead of blaming the breeder or blaming fem seeds you should blame yourself and go from there, it'll be more fruitful (pun intended..)

That's your problem right there, you are taking it personal and out of insecurity desperately look to place the blame elsewhere. It's why I'm fucking with you, but my intentions are not mean-spirited. I don't have to know you personally, it's a cliche scenario just as your reaction to the situation. "Some" of your LA woman hermied is another strong indication it's not the strain but you. So again, it's very likely your own fault. Everybody makes mistakes man. It's how you learn from them that matters, and that's where you're going all wrong (especially if you go from DNA to RQS...).
I know that regular females can turn hermie as well... Feminized seeds just seem to have a higher ratio of hermies. That's all I'm saying... Am I wrong ? Maybe... But if you have facts, shoot them.

I know that environment can cause that too... But since when having fans blowing in a tent is a source of stress ? Everybody does it. As long as temps are fine why would it be any problems ? My environment is fine on every level but thanks for asking...

I actually put the blame on myself for quite a long time but when you do EVERYTHING perfectly the way It's supposed to be and yet still end up with hermies, you start to wonder. Yet you might probably say that I didn't do everything perfectly... But how could you know ? I made mistakes, but not on this run. Nothing that could have triggered this fucking trait.

And I don't know how the fact that "some" of my plants hermed is in any way an indicator that my problem isn't genetics related. IMO some seeds are just more stable than others...

I'd be happy to keep up with DNA but working against the wind is annoying as fuck.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I know that regular females can turn hermie as well... Feminized seeds just seem to have a higher ratio of hermies. That's all I'm saying... Am I wrong ? Maybe... But if you have facts, shoot them.
The reality is that it does happen more often with fem seed, which is partly because fem only breeders are a different type of breed. :) The other part is that females are much more likely to show intersex traits than males and you remove males when you grow regular (of which some were possibly just hermies...). Nearly all, if not all, females can have intersex traits, even plants that don't hermie can still still produce flowers of the opposite sex by taking over hormone regulation - NOT by changing it's genetic make up. It's genetically defined that a plant CAN hermie, not that it WILL hermie. It's like a phenotype, it only expresses in certain environments. There are of course genetic hermaphrodites but those are rare and not something DNA would breed with.

The genetics of a plant are the combined results of the half of each parent's genes. Whether that offspring created with those parents show intersex traits easily (what you call hermied) depends on the parents that are used and not on how they mate. A good breeder tests the parents, knows his strains. Some others just grow out females and cross the two with the fattest frostiests buds (GHS, RQS...). Yet others (cannabis cup winning clones for example) are simply the result of selfed female. In that last case there is only one plant that contributes to offspring's genetic makeup, there's only one parent. If that parent has low stress resistance and high intersex tendency there is nothing to balance it out.

Point is, a crappy fem seed maker is more likely to create a hermie strain than a crappy regular seed breeder, I will give you that. For most breeders selecting against intersex traits is normal though.

For more, search member Sativied and intersex as keyword.

"Am I wrong? Maybe..." :clap: Problem with most growers is that they can't even stand the thought of being wrong. I might be wrong about everything in this thread. Maybe LA Woman has a high hermie ratio...

I know that environment can cause that too... But since when having fans blowing in a tent is a source of stress ? Everybody does it. As long as temps are fine why would it be any problems ?
No, not everybody has fans blowing at their plants, I sure do not. It depends a lot on the temps too but blowing fans at a plant can be an effective easy way to stress them. Did you notice any purple stems? Especially at night and during colder periods blow between the bulb and the plants, do not direct them at the plants, especially not during flowering (and blow away those smelly volatile terpenes...).

I actually put the blame on myself for quite a long time but when you do EVERYTHING perfectly the way It's supposed to be and yet still end up with hermies, you start to wonder. Yet you might probably say that I didn't do everything perfectly... But how could you know ?
I don't know, just making sure you do :D Hence the "friendly heads up", blaming the breeder without making very damn sure it's not your own fault (which the imaginary friends imply) is going to lead to ironic and for you disappointing results.

While light leaks or messed up light schedules are common causes, there are many more, pretty much anything you can over do, anything that is not balanced, whether that's light, water, nutes, temps, pruning/training, all should be done in moderation.

And I don't know how the fact that "some" of my plants hermed is in any way an indicator that my problem isn't genetics related. IMO some seeds are just more stable than others...
Simple, if there's one plant you could blame the plant, not all seeds are equal indeed, but since you said "some" it's probably more than just 2 right? Add to that that I think it's very unlikely that LA woman herms that easily and they used parents that hermed easily... In any case, as I mentioned above, it's often triggered and not genetically determined it will hermie.

I'd be happy to keep up with DNA but working against the wind is annoying as fuck.
I like what they got to offer for both growing and smoking but I'm not saying you should stick with them, just that going to RQS would imo be a step down.
 

M4verick

Well-Known Member
Interesting read. It's pretty clear that DNA doesn't fuck with hermaphrodites for breeding purposes, and indeed, I believe It's like a phenotype, that "can" be triggered... Not saying they were hermies since day one but that not all the seeds are equal in their herm "potential", if that makes sense ?

But the thing is, I've been extra cautious with everything so I really don't know what could lead to that. Well, stress could, of course... But I try to balance everything the right way to give them a perfect environment, therefore, if they herm on me, either they're VERY fragile (which I suppose It's the case) or I'm simply doing something wrong... Which might be the case too.

I've seen purple stems on my girls yes, but always right after topping. The next growth are green... So it has to be the stress of the topping but I'm doing it very gently using a scalpel, they don't even realize what happens. Maybe DNA strains don't handle topping very well ? I don't know... I thought about that too... The way I see it, their genetics are very good, but very fragile. Which makes sense in some way... Great stuff has to be hard to grow. Why are you suggesting to not aim at the plants with fans ? I always thought that people do this in order to make their girls stronger etc, especially during flowering... Haha but you say the opposite, can you extend your thoughts on this please ? You're saying that I'm losing terpenes with fans blowing 24/24 in my tent ?

Now for the "imaginary friends"... LOL, let me explain ; those (2) friends are experienced growers, with dozens of grow under their belt... They had many harvests of 100% sinsemilia and no real herm issues along the way except some isolated cases. Yet it happened massively with DNA... So if it happens to them and their state of the art setups (Gorilla tents, Gavita Plasma, Gavita HPS...) and experience, it tends to make me think that the problem is beyond my control... One of them harvested some DNA Lemon Skunk fem'd without any problems though, but from I've read online it seems to be their most stable strain so that kinda makes sense.

Got your point about blaming "some" plants. Actually, there was one pheno that was almost male I mean it was ridiculous... Big grape full of balls, pretty much like a male. I was too disgusted to actually take a picture... Others were more subtle, shooting female pistils and right next to them, a single male shoot... The same "subtle" scenario goes for most of my plants (26 total) which makes it very hard to control as they can be anywhere, mostly on the lower sites though. Almost every single one of them is affected by that trait... So maybe It's me, but how ? I switch my lights (2x 600W HPS) from 18/6 to 12/12 on a single day... It's some form of stress but this method seems to have been field tested by many growers without any problem to report.

So... the only real sources of stress I give them is topping, fans blowing at them, and the light flip... That's about it. By the way I'm absolutely open to the fact that I could be MY fault, but I'm just saying that when you optimize everything and questioned everything in every ways, you start to wonder.

What other seedbank would you recommend ? I can't work from clones for now, so feminized seeds is ironically my safest bet.

By the way, I've seen that you seem to be doubtful towards the paper towels (for germination I suppose) and flushing ? Can you say why ? I'm interested.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Appreciate it brother.

EDIT ; read some of your stuff about intersex. Learned a few things along the way. A female with mostly fem shoots and very few males can't be considered herm ? But a stressed female ? Just wanna be accurate.
 
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amgprb

Well-Known Member
I have grown out Royal Kush, Royal Cheese and Blue mistic from Royal Queen Seeds. I got some really good smoke, but all 3 strains threw a few nanners here and there.... Good luck
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Maybe DNA strains don't handle topping very well ? I don't know... I thought about that too... The way I see it, their genetics are very good, but very fragile. Which makes sense in some way... Great stuff has to be hard to grow.
DNA has too much variation to lump them together as fragile strains that don't handle topping very well. I've grown Chocolate Fondue (fem), Skywalker Kush (fem), and Cannalope Haze (reg) and they all have been extensively topped and cropped.

I just took a peak in a local (dutch) forum and of the first two LA Woman grows I found one was a beginner with multiple hermies, the other a pro with (seemingly) no hermies. So again, perhaps LA Woman simply 'is' more prone to hermie than others. Or as you say, more fragile. I prefer to refer to it as low stress resistance because the term hermie is so abused and misused.

It's not a matter of "stable" though. Stable strains can still hermie. Stable strains produce very similar plants. If a strain produces 100% hermies, it's stable for that trait. Not stable means not only using bad genetics but also doing a poor job breeding, both things I don't associate with DNA genetics (and more something you can expect from the fem-only bean makers).

Great stuff has to be hard to grow.
I used to think the same thing, but in reality great stuff can be easy to grow too and crappy stuff can be hard to grow. It's like quality not having to be expensive and pretty girls not hard to get.

Why are you suggesting to not aim at the plants with fans ? I always thought that people do this in order to make their girls stronger etc, especially during flowering... Haha but you say the opposite, can you extend your thoughts on this please ? You're saying that I'm losing terpenes with fans blowing 24/24 in my tent ?
If there's any truth to getting stronger girls by pointing an oscillating fan at it it's during veg and not flowering. But if your plants are so weak they need wind to make them stronger you should look for different genetics or a better nutrient regime. I live in a crappy humid climate where closet and tent growers sometimes just need to blow at buds to prevent bud rot (i.e. when the air sucked in isn't dry enough). The downside is therefor well-known, terpenes are extremely volatile. Fans are for air circulation/movement, not to create a wind. Not that the growers in the dutch forums are such experts, but aiming fans at buds or stems is a bluntly put a noob move. If you aim the fan to blow above the canopy but below the bulb it will still cause plenty of movement, but without cooling or putting plants in the wind.

Besides humidity the temps aren't always ideal here either, meaning sucking in cold air. This often comes at a cost of stress (including purple stems) of the plant(s) near the intake. Not having the intake in balance with the exhaust (creating a storm in the tent as we say) makes that even worse.

Now for the "imaginary friends"... LOL, let me explain ; those (2) friends are experienced growers, with dozens of grow under their belt... They had many harvests of 100% sinsemilia and no real herm issues along the way except some isolated cases. Yet it happened massively with DNA... So if it happens to them and their state of the art setups (Gorilla tents, Gavita Plasma, Gavita HPS...) and experience, it tends to make me think that the problem is beyond my control...
Ok, I can totally see how that leads to the perception of DNA genetics being the main cause here. I'm sure you got it by now but my whole point is that that remains a tricky conclusion. Let me put it this way, if 5 people getting hermies would exclude a breeder there won't be much left to choose from. At the same time there are many DNA gear growers who don't grow hermies.

Almost every single one of them is affected by that trait... So maybe It's me, but how ?
If almost every single one is affected then yes, I'm inclined to think it's you (your environment that is, not you personally :)). Selling hermies is the worst thing a breeder can do, hence why every breeder selects against intersex traits, getting so many hermies from a good breeder is just unlikely, frankly, even with GHS or RQS that is unlikely if grown in a good environment. Switching from 18/6 to 12/12 on a single day is likely not the cause either. I always do that and yes that does cause a little stress (opposed to gradually changing like outdoors would happen) but should cause intersex traits to appear.

There's a chance you've just been really unlucky. As you perhaps noticed in one of my posts about intersex cannabis plants are flexible when it comes to their sexual expression. It's not until the 4th or 5th node that they start committing to either male or female. Same thing when you switch to flowering before they matured (i.e. before fully sexed and preflowers), it's a critical moment where a strain with low stress resistance may just hermie for a combination of by itself small influences. You may never be able to find the real cause because there's not necessarily one single cause.

Switching to a different breeder or at least different strain (with different parents than the la woman) is wise in any case because you can at least exclude it from being the issue.

What other seedbank would you recommend ? I can't work from clones for now, so feminized seeds is ironically my safest bet.
Tough question. Picking a breeder and seeds is the hardest part. The main factor for me is taste, and since that's a matter of taste what I recommend may not suit you at all... Easier to recommend against... like don't buy seeds from bean makers who make only fem seeds. Not because fem seeds are bad, but because those who only use females are usually not the better breeders. Fem seeds are convenient for the grower, like a shortcut (to having all females). It's something a breeder should created at the end of the line (I.e. breed reg strain than make fem version) and not like a shortcut.

That said, if I had to recommend one to you I'd say take a look at Sannie seeds. He's my fallback option. As in if I'd be lost and don't know what to pick I'll order some from Sannie. I can ask a mod in his forums (he owns the largest dutch grow forum) which is the least likely to herm based on the experience of others. If money is not an issue another one I can recommend is NL#5xHaze from sensiseeds (many many of the popular strains are based on NL#5xHaze). If I were you I'd forget about the hermie thing for a while, pick something you think you like growing and smoking and then google to see if it hermied a lot for other growers.

EDIT ; read some of your stuff about intersex. Learned a few things along the way. A female with mostly fem shoots and very few can't be considered herm ? But a stressed female ? Just wanna be accurate.
Can, and then everyone will still know what you mean. And it in fact can be a real herm, the point is that it doesn't necessarily mean it is, and above all, often isn't the case. So yes, when you "wanna be accurate", not every female that spawns bananas is an actual hermaphrodite. If you leave a female flowering long enough (beyond harvest time) it often spawns bananas too. The problem comes partly from the misleading term "male flowers"... (opposed to saying staminate flowers, which a female can grow too). I will do a lab test soon (gender + hermie test) to get more insight and either prove myself wrong or right :) "Myself" because the public debate will probably never end.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
:lol: Too much characters for a single post, here's the rest:

By the way, I've seen that you seem to be doubtful towards the paper towels (for germination I suppose) and flushing ? Can you say why ?
Both are unnecessary and everything a grower does that isn't necessary is something that should be avoided. Cannabis seeds pop relatively easy and fast and pop despite many of the different methods people use, not thanks to. Germinating in paper towels creates requires an additional transplant and unnecessary risk. I've done a seed run earlier this year so had thousands of seeds to play with and found that the most efficient way (besides dropping a seed in soil - I grow hydro) is soaking the seed in a cup warm-ish water for 12-24 hours and than drop them in whatever (rockwool, jiffy, or even hydroton). I don't have a problem with people using paper towels to germinate though, I have a problem with people promoting it as some advanced/better/faster way to germinate (cause it isn't).

As for flushing, you can't flush a plant, you can flush a medium to leach some elements, if you don't over fertilize the medium, there's no need to try and reduce the nutrient concentration in the medium. Because some elements leach much easier than others you always create an imbalance. I run a low ppm NFT setup and measure continuously, the amount of nutrients used by the plant drops together with the water uptake. Less water uptake already means less nutrient uptake. (The use of ) quality nutrients in a proper ratio and level contributes to taste opposed to popular believe of smoking salts or w/e/ nonsense. Starving them near the end isn't going to improve the end product. All you got to do to grow A quality cannabis is provide it with a happy home and let the plant do its thing, which includes a happy home for the roots, which means one that contains nutrients, and does not include starving it. It's a little easier, faster to dry and not get hay/grass if you starve them prematurely (so you end yellow) which gives some the perception that flushing increases taste but the best quality+quantity comes from plants that are kept healthy throughout the entire run and are then properly dried and cured.

Less is more in so many ways. That goes for nutrients, watering, touching the plants, fans, frequency of opening tent/closet door and above all applying grow forum techniques and methods.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Appreciate it brother.
You're most welcome. Don't get that many people here willing to learn or at least hear another perspective especially when it comes to hermies and fem beans. Hermaphobia is hard to cure, best to try and not get infected in the first place.
 

amgprb

Well-Known Member
I grew LA Woman probably about 5 years ago. Put her through hell and back as at the time I was working nearly 70+ hours a week, the wife and I were going through "hard" times so I wouldnt even come home at times. So they were neglected and I had not a single male flower show.
 

M4verick

Well-Known Member
DNA has too much variation to lump them together as fragile strains that don't handle topping very well. I've grown Chocolate Fondue (fem), Skywalker Kush (fem), and Cannalope Haze (reg) and they all have been extensively topped and cropped.

I just took a peak in a local (dutch) forum and of the first two LA Woman grows I found one was a beginner with multiple hermies, the other a pro with (seemingly) no hermies. So again, perhaps LA Woman simply 'is' more prone to hermie than others. Or as you say, more fragile. I prefer to refer to it as low stress resistance because the term hermie is so abused and misused.

It's not a matter of "stable" though. Stable strains can still hermie. Stable strains produce very similar plants. If a strain produces 100% hermies, it's stable for that trait. Not stable means not only using bad genetics but also doing a poor job breeding, both things I don't associate with DNA genetics (and more something you can expect from the fem-only bean makers).

I used to think the same thing, but in reality great stuff can be easy to grow too and crappy stuff can be hard to grow. It's like quality not having to be expensive and pretty girls not hard to get.

If there's any truth to getting stronger girls by pointing an oscillating fan at it it's during veg and not flowering. But if your plants are so weak they need wind to make them stronger you should look for different genetics or a better nutrient regime. I live in a crappy humid climate where closet and tent growers sometimes just need to blow at buds to prevent bud rot (i.e. when the air sucked in isn't dry enough). The downside is therefor well-known, terpenes are extremely volatile. Fans are for air circulation/movement, not to create a wind. Not that the growers in the dutch forums are such experts, but aiming fans at buds or stems is a bluntly put a noob move. If you aim the fan to blow above the canopy but below the bulb it will still cause plenty of movement, but without cooling or putting plants in the wind.

Besides humidity the temps aren't always ideal here either, meaning sucking in cold air. This often comes at a cost of stress (including purple stems) of the plant(s) near the intake. Not having the intake in balance with the exhaust (creating a storm in the tent as we say) makes that even worse.

Ok, I can totally see how that leads to the perception of DNA genetics being the main cause here. I'm sure you got it by now but my whole point is that that remains a tricky conclusion. Let me put it this way, if 5 people getting hermies would exclude a breeder there won't be much left to choose from. At the same time there are many DNA gear growers who don't grow hermies.

If almost every single one is affected then yes, I'm inclined to think it's you (your environment that is, not you personally :)). Selling hermies is the worst thing a breeder can do, hence why every breeder selects against intersex traits, getting so many hermies from a good breeder is just unlikely, frankly, even with GHS or RQS that is unlikely if grown in a good environment. Switching from 18/6 to 12/12 on a single day is likely not the cause either. I always do that and yes that does cause a little stress (opposed to gradually changing like outdoors would happen) but should cause intersex traits to appear.

There's a chance you've just been really unlucky. As you perhaps noticed in one of my posts about intersex cannabis plants are flexible when it comes to their sexual expression. It's not until the 4th or 5th node that they start committing to either male or female. Same thing when you switch to flowering before they matured (i.e. before fully sexed and preflowers), it's a critical moment where a strain with low stress resistance may just hermie for a combination of by itself small influences. You may never be able to find the real cause because there's not necessarily one single cause.

Switching to a different breeder or at least different strain (with different parents than the la woman) is wise in any case because you can at least exclude it from being the issue.

Tough question. Picking a breeder and seeds is the hardest part. The main factor for me is taste, and since that's a matter of taste what I recommend may not suit you at all... Easier to recommend against... like don't buy seeds from bean makers who make only fem seeds. Not because fem seeds are bad, but because those who only use females are usually not the better breeders. Fem seeds are convenient for the grower, like a shortcut (to having all females). It's something a breeder should created at the end of the line (I.e. breed reg strain than make fem version) and not like a shortcut.

That said, if I had to recommend one to you I'd say take a look at Sannie seeds. He's my fallback option. As in if I'd be lost and don't know what to pick I'll order some from Sannie. I can ask a mod in his forums (he owns the largest dutch grow forum) which is the least likely to herm based on the experience of others. If money is not an issue another one I can recommend is NL#5xHaze from sensiseeds (many many of the popular strains are based on NL#5xHaze). If I were you I'd forget about the hermie thing for a while, pick something you think you like growing and smoking and then google to see if it hermied a lot for other growers.

Can, and then everyone will still know what you mean. And it in fact can be a real herm, the point is that it doesn't necessarily mean it is, and above all, often isn't the case. So yes, when you "wanna be accurate", not every female that spawns bananas is an actual hermaphrodite. If you leave a female flowering long enough (beyond harvest time) it often spawns bananas too. The problem comes partly from the misleading term "male flowers"... (opposed to saying staminate flowers, which a female can grow too). I will do a lab test soon (gender + hermie test) to get more insight and either prove myself wrong or right :) "Myself" because the public debate will probably never end.
Low stress resistance seems more appropriate indeed. I might have to check for light leaks... Those flaps on my tent don't seem 100% lightproof... Regarding my herms, those damn leaks are probably the main cause... I'll have to check my intake, it might come from there. I'll make a test from the inside of the tent right before my next flowering cycle and I'll duct tape anything that could cause even a small leak.

Got it on the hermie trait being stable, but I don't think It's the case for me. Light you said, I'm probably the one who caused this.

So for you, aiming at plants with fans is a noob move ? Alright I think I'll have to make a few modifications in my tent...
You said that terpenes are volatiles, ok I get that but the essence of what you said is that I can lose taste in my final product by blowing at them or... ? Feel free to elaborate, I'm curious. What should I do ? Create a flow under the bulbs ? That wind will hit my girls that way too... Should I suppress my 2 fans ? I also have a 1000 CFM for intake and 1500 for outtake but I never make the intake blow straight on the first girls.

I use GSE controllers in order to tweak and sync my CFMs, so balance-wise I think I'm fine. I also use a GSE for humidity because the Swiss climate ain't that humid, helps me to be more accurate, especially for the drying process (I dry slow, for about 2 weeks, around 60-70% humidity, thoughts on this ?).

Like you said, perhaps I was unlucky... But I think that DNA has indeed a solid reputation for good reasons, I actually still have 30 seeds of LA Confidential, one of the parents of the LA Woman. Since I paid for them ; FUCK IT, I'll give them a shot for my next session and I'll try to be more lightproof. We'll see what happens, I'll do my best. Hopefully being 100% pitch black will be enough to counter those "herm" issues. I took notes for NL#5xHaze and Sannie Seeds though (: I'll give you at feedback on my LA Con' if you're interested.

I waited until the 6-7th node to trigger flowering, I think that's enough to avoid any major stress.
Also, when I repot them into biggers pots, timing can be critical ? Anything special to do ? I just to do it as quick as possible and in the most gentle way.

Thank you for making me think outside the box on this one... Learned so much in a couple days I feel like a sponge ha !
 
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