Cant You Vacuum Distill SUPER PURE Hash Oil?!

[ideletemyself]

Yea, i should have mentioned that a short path distillation setup would still cause the vapor to travel farther than it needs to before It has to condense, so really a sublimation apparatus would be the bees knees.
Is a little but different from regular distillation, but all you really need to is buy a cold finger that fits your boiling flask and you can make yourself a nice little apparatus it's the same concept as distillation but in a much smaller environment, here's a little picture of a sublimation apparatus, simple little piece of equipment

Oh wow, sweet thx! I was actually looking at some cold finger traps the other day. Will defn. look into sublimation now.

 

[Blunter the kid]

Oh wow, sweet thx! I was actually looking at some cold finger traps the other day. Will defn. look into sublimation now.

No problem, its great to see someone testing they're limits and researching new things all in an effort to make stronger and tastier medicine.

I'm curious have you ever read of the process that is used to remove chlorophyll from edible vegetable oils?
I imagine this information can be applied to a solvent extract of cannabis that is laden with chlorophyll.
http://www.cyut.edu.tw/~ijase/2005/IJASE 3-2-1.pdf

 

[Hydrotech364]

Yeah, I'm aware that pretty much all of this stuff can be jimmy-rigged together if the right McGuyver-type guy is around like yourself, seemingly... I'm not that improvisational in handyman-hardware skills. I'm sure if I just took the time & effort I could hack it but I'd rather spend a lil bit of $$$ and be sure it's not my equipment that's fucking whatever up at the moment. As I become more confident in my chem abilities overall, then I'll start trying my hand and making my own equipment. Gotz'ta crawl before ya walk!

I agree, but when you break $100 Vacuum Funnel's and 1000Ml beaker's like they were free it will inspire You.I was always a wizz @ Organic Chem but I have been known to sample the batch lol.I have done alot of Gold Extraction since then and now I am doing Palladium.If I had not caught that bug my lab skillz would still be shit...Never cooked any meth though just for those thinking...I couldn't live with myself, and would have made my own LSD but @ the time I didn't have those skillz.The Accumulator was an idea I came up with to save money.I use them to absorb shock's and surges in some of my industrial and mobile hydraulic system design's...

 

[ideletemyself]

No problem, its great to see someone testing they're limits and researching new things all in an effort to make stronger and tastier medicine.

I'm curious have you ever read of the process that is used to remove chlorophyll from edible vegetable oils?
I imagine this information can be applied to a solvent extract of cannabis that is laden with chlorophyll.
http://www.cyut.edu.tw/~ijase/2005/IJASE 3-2-1.pdf

no, I've not really looked into the removal of chlorophyll from much of anything yet. Beyond what GW or whoever might mention on Skunk Pharm in their "Ploshing Extracts" section or something like that. Or that UV light degrades chlorophyll. It would be interesting if I could do that for the aloe and defat as well to take out all that fiber, because the healing effects of aloe are no joke but the chlorophyll and fiber make it a dead stop killer for peeps w/crohn's... That article you sited was very interesting indeed.

Since I do QWET extracts w/dry ice, I get very little chlorophyll and veg. shit. Drying my stuff beforehand in my oven by setting the temp to it's lowest 170F and turning it off the instant it reaches temp. from preheating. I pop in my materials and let it lightly bake like that for however long. Best way I've found to quickly dry shit without fucking it up whatsoever. But I find the combo of the oven dry and then putting it below or on top a huge block of dry ice does the trick for keeping out unwanted nasties. Really, this is why I'm trying new things because I feel I've reached the very limits to what that process can offer...

 

[ideletemyself]

I agree, but when you break $100 Vacuum Funnel's and 1000Ml beaker's like they were free it will inspire You.I was always a wizz @ Organic Chem but I have been known to sample the batch lol.I have done alot of Gold Extraction since then and now I am doing Palladium.If I had not caught that bug my lab skillz would still be shit...Never cooked any meth though just for those thinking...I couldn't live with myself, and would have made my own LSD but @ the time I didn't have those skillz.The Accumulator was an idea I came up with to save money.I use them to absorb shock's and surges in some of my industrial and mobile hydraulic system design's...

lol, if I ever make it to the point of breaking vacuum funnels & 1000ml beakers to feel inspired, I'll know I'm living in the salad days to be sure!

As of yet, I'm pretty newb but I do other alchemy with another flower known for treating pain and leave it at that

I'm pretty greenhorn in both respects but am learning as much as I can and have had what I would call, satisfying and exciting results so far. At least enough to obviously keep me still researching and buying new equipment, lol!

But I've done just about everything under the sun and try to live by the saying of one of, if not my main hero in life the good Dr. Hunter S. Thompson which is of coarse, "Buy the ticket, take the ride..." I can't think of any more apt saying to life really it offers a little hope and excitement but makes no apologies or sympathies for your choices. Ah well, that's for another forum as well ha!

 

[Blunter the kid]

no, I've not really looked into the removal of chlorophyll from much of anything yet. Beyond what GW or whoever might mention on Skunk Pharm in their "Ploshing Extracts" section or something like that. Or that UV light degrades chlorophyll. It would be interesting if I could do that for the aloe and defat as well to take out all that fiber, because the healing effects of aloe are no joke but the chlorophyll and fiber make it a dead stop killer for peeps w/crohn's... That article you sited was very interesting indeed.

Since I do QWET extracts w/dry ice, I get very little chlorophyll and veg. shit. Drying my stuff beforehand in my oven by setting the temp to it's lowest 170F and turning it off the instant it reaches temp. from preheating. I pop in my materials and let it lightly bake like that for however long. Best way I've found to quickly dry shit without fucking it up whatsoever. But I find the combo of the oven dry and then putting it below or on top a huge block of dry ice does the trick for keeping out unwanted nasties. Really, this is why I'm trying new things because I feel I've reached the very limits to what that process can offer...

You obviously have your technique perfect so I can see your desire to move along and conduct further experiments, its so interesting to learn about this shit!
One of the more interesting things I read about was in another article stating that in the processing of pine pitch a 50/50 mixture of sulfuric-phosphoric acid is used to remove waxes, phenols, and color compounds such as carotenoids.
If I understand the process correctly the acid would be the catalyst that causes the compounds to form different insoluble compounds in both water and non polar solvents with these compounds, they can then be filtered off, this would be cool to do before sublimation to avoid the waxes, phenols, etc. that would be a pain in the ass to clean out of your flask once your done sublimating, it would also remove the waxes that do not precipitate out during winterization another plus.
I'm actually getting my laboratory own set up shipped to me, ill be more than willing to post pictures and videos when I get the equipment. My goal will be to find the most economical way to extract via sublimation.

 

[ideletemyself]

Yea, i should have mentioned that a short path distillation setup would still cause the vapor to travel farther than it needs to before It has to condense, so really a sublimation apparatus would be the bees knees.
Is a little but different from regular distillation, but all you really need to is buy a cold finger that fits your boiling flask and you can make yourself a nice little apparatus it's the same concept as distillation but in a much smaller environment, here's a little picture of a sublimation apparatus, simple little piece of equipment

EDIT: The main difference between distillation and sublimation is that a sublimator will vaporize and condense all inside a small enclosed apparatus, whereas in distillation the vapor is required to vaporize in the boilin flask and travel through the condenser coil into the chilled flask.

I'm looking for a cold finger now, will have to wait for next paycheck since I already have my 3-neck round bottom flask coming. Kinda want that so I can have a more accurate temp. reading because I know how I have it at the top of the column near the condenser is not accurate enough for my liking at least.

My question is that I see they have some configurations available for leibeg or allihn condensers, would it be advantageous to have the extra condenser? I'm guessing it wouldn't since your emphasis on size but I think maybe you were just referring to the it's size comparatively and not necessarily a comment on requirements of the apparatus as a whole...

This really gave me a good understanding of the process I think:

Cold Finger Sublimation Explained

I was looking at something like this for my setup:

200mm Cold Finger at CtechGlass

Since I have the kinda playschool organic chem. set in that it's actually 24/29 and not the standard 24/40 but when I bought the kit it specifically stated that all parts would work interchangeably with the standard 24/40's out there. So I think I can get something like the above OR something like this:

110mm Cold Finger for Allihn Condensers

and then pickup a standard allihn condenser? I would defn. want one with a vacuum attachment if possible.....

 

[Blunter the kid]

I'm looking for a cold finger now, will have to wait for next paycheck since I already have my 3-neck round bottom flask coming. Kinda want that so I can have a more accurate temp. reading because I know how I have it at the top of the column near the condenser is not accurate enough for my liking at least.

My question is that I see they have some configurations available for leibeg or allihn condensers, would it be advantageous to have the extra condenser? I'm guessing it wouldn't since your emphasis on size but I think maybe you were just referring to the it's size comparatively and not necessarily a comment on requirements of the apparatus as a whole...

This really gave me a good understanding of the process I think:

Cold Finger Sublimation Explained

I was looking at something like this for my setup:

200mm Cold Finger at CtechGlass

Since I have the kinda playschool organic chem. set in that it's actually 24/29 and not the standard 24/40 but when I bought the kit it specifically stated that all parts would work interchangeably with the standard 24/40's out there. So I think I can get something like the above OR something like this:

110mm Cold Finger for Allihn Condensers

and then pickup a standard allihn condenser? I would defn. want one with a vacuum attachment if possible.....

Either one will work fine, but I'm having trouble understanding your question, your not going to need the Liebig or allihn condensers unless your distilling a solvent or perhaps the terpenes, but as you said emphasis should be placed on size because I imagine you won't need to sublimate more than about 2 grams of extract at a time, with that being said either of those cold fingers would work if they were placed into a suitable flask.
The cold condenser will attract the vapors and condense them so size only matters to an extent, it cannot be too small. Being too large will only start to matter when your using something like a Liebig condenser because the vapors will condense along the way through the tube and be somewhat harder to collect.

That 200mm one would be the one I would buy just because it will perform the same and costs $50 less

Edit: I may have been unclear when I said it cannot be too small, i mean no matter how small it is it should work, I was high so just disregard that part haha

 

[Blunter the kid]

More in depth explanations of each step of the degumming-deodorizing-bleaching steps used to turn crude cooking oil into a pure fat:
http://www.ips-engineering.it/Doc/Edible oil and fat refining.pdf
I imagine this process is included in the so called "family secret" they claim to use to make they're clear concentrates at Harbor Side Health Center.

 

[ideletemyself]

More in depth explanations of each step of the degumming-deodorizing-bleaching steps used to turn crude cooking oil into a pure fat:
http://www.ips-engineering.it/Doc/Edible oil and fat refining.pdf
I imagine this process is included in the so called "family secret" they claim to use to make they're clear concentrates at Harbor Side Health Center.

nice! will read asap... I've been watching sublimation vids on the YouTubes, you're right on how simple the process and apparatus are. Most of them aren't even using a dedicated cold finger, usually, the ones I've watched anyways. But it's really interesting. I wonder what the sublimation properties are of cannaboids & terpenes compared to cannabis's plant fats & waxes... As well I wonder if the process will go, grind up small bits of plant matter and sublimate or extract with your favorite method then sublimate to purify. Seems like the latter from what I've been seeing so far but it'd be pretty sweet if one could just go from the raw plant matter to sublimation. Which is what you were hoping to do, correct?

I suppose we'll have to test to find out!

 

[Blunter the kid]

nice! will read asap... I've been watching sublimation vids on the YouTubes, you're right on how simple the process and apparatus are. Most of them aren't even using a dedicated cold finger, usually, the ones I've watched anyways. But it's really interesting. I wonder what the sublimation properties are of cannaboids & terpenes compared to cannabis's plant fats & waxes... As well I wonder if the process will go, grind up small bits of plant matter and sublimate or extract with your favorite method then sublimate to purify. Seems like the latter from what I've been seeing so far but it'd be pretty sweet if one could just go from the raw plant matter to sublimation. Which is what you were hoping to do, correct?

I suppose we'll have to test to find out!

I would imagine that the waxes and fats would actually be good candidates to perform sublimation on, but whether it happens at the same temp and vacuum as cannabinoids, I couldn't tell you.
So I suppose taking them out to begin with by extracting with acetone or ethanol and then continuing to winterize the product would make sublimating a bit more simple.
Also i had an idea, you said you ordered a 3 neck round bottom flask.
If you hooked up a standard Liebig condenser to a joint on your round bottom flask, your cold finger could be placed into the middle joint of your RBF and a thermometer in the last joint.
Let's say you just winterized your product and now you need to evaporate the ethanol before you sublimate, well with that setup I tried to explain, you could just put the QWET In your flask and perform the sublimation and distillation in the same step.
On another note, it would be cool if I could just sublimate straight from plant matter but I imagine the plant fats and waxes would sublimate too so it should be done with an extract of the plant matter instead.

 

[Blunter the kid]

http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/96ClassProj/examples/triplpt.html

Another piece of information that you will find very helpful in learning to isolate what you want

Edit: (This was a bit too confusing for me, so I'm not exactly sure if this is gonna be of any help to you in determining the temperature and the right amount of vacuum to use when sublimating, but I imagine you could pull a vacuum and slowly increase the temperature until you see it start to condense.)

 

[ideletemyself]

I would imagine that the waxes and fats would actually be good candidates to perform sublimation on, but whether it happens at the same temp and vacuum as cannabinoids, I couldn't tell you.
So I suppose taking them out to begin with by extracting with acetone or ethanol and then continuing to winterize the product would make sublimating a bit more simple.
Also i had an idea, you said you ordered a 3 neck round bottom flask.
If you hooked up a standard Liebig condenser to a joint on your round bottom flask, your cold finger could be placed into the middle joint of your RBF and a thermometer in the last joint.
Let's say you just winterized your product and now you need to evaporate the ethanol before you sublimate, well with that setup I tried to explain, you could just put the QWET In your flask and perform the sublimation and distillation in the same step.
On another note, it would be cool if I could just sublimate straight from plant matter but I imagine the plant fats and waxes would sublimate too so it should be done with an extract of the plant matter instead.

Hey hey, sorry I've been out of it the past few days... Fuggin' crohn's... Anyways, the setup you talk about is pretty much exactly what I have on order lol. I'm also getting a Vigreux column for fractional fun!

Not 100% obviously but with your input and from all that I'm reading I'll most likely try sublimation with my QWET extract or if my lab grade hexane makes it here in time I'll most likely use that to extract to minimize those waxes & such even further than what the ethanol can do.

I'm still really excited for my supply of d-limonene that should get here any day now. I still have plans to extract with the d-limonene and vacuum distilling it off to see how that can/might turn out. I've been reading on the benefits of using d-limonene to treat crohn's and it seems pretty beneficial so like I said, pretty excited for that.

So I've got sublimation on it's own and then extraction & distillation w/d-limonene on the schedule. If my crohn's symptoms will just leave me the fuck alone for a enough days I can actually get this awesome stuff done. Thing is when I'm flaring I don't dare attempt anything like this for obvious safety reasons. All I'd need is to get stuck in the bathroom for an extended period or just simply can't focus enough to watch what is essentially different shit boil...

Ah well, all in good time hopefully!

 

[ideletemyself]

http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/96ClassProj/examples/triplpt.html

Another piece of information that you will find very helpful in learning to isolate what you want

Edit: (This was a bit too confusing for me, so I'm not exactly sure if this is gonna be of any help to you in determining the temperature and the right amount of vacuum to use when sublimating, but I imagine you could pull a vacuum and slowly increase the temperature until you see it start to condense.)

hmmm, yeah that was kinda over my head. Or I think I need to sit down and really read it over like 10x, lol... I mean, I get the gist of it, it's showing how a substance in this case water, can exist in the 3 different phases at the same time if the pressure & temp. is all correct.

But how it was saying to get from point 1, 2 & 3 and I'm looking at the graph and going ummm huh?? Cuz the only 1, 2 & 3 I see on there are all really close together and linked with an L type line. Which is confusing to me because when it says: "In order to get to point 2, the temperature must decrease, while the pressure must increase to reach point 3. However, both process crosses the liquid-vapor equilibrium line in the direction of condensation from vapor to liquid." and all I see is that L linked 1, 2 & 3. I dunno, like I said I'll have to give it a give 5-10x read over and MAYBE I'll understand exactly what magics it's trying to convey to me...

 

[Blunter the kid]

Hey hey, sorry I've been out of it the past few days... Fuggin' crohn's... Anyways, the setup you talk about is pretty much exactly what I have on order lol. I'm also getting a Vigreux column for fractional fun!

Not 100% obviously but with your input and from all that I'm reading I'll most likely try sublimation with my QWET extract or if my lab grade hexane makes it here in time I'll most likely use that to extract to minimize those waxes & such even further than what the ethanol can do.

I'm still really excited for my supply of d-limonene that should get here any day now. I still have plans to extract with the d-limonene and vacuum distilling it off to see how that can/might turn out. I've been reading on the benefits of using d-limonene to treat crohn's and it seems pretty beneficial so like I said, pretty excited for that.

So I've got sublimation on it's own and then extraction & distillation w/d-limonene on the schedule. If my crohn's symptoms will just leave me the fuck alone for a enough days I can actually get this awesome stuff done. Thing is when I'm flaring I don't dare attempt anything like this for obvious safety reasons. All I'd need is to get stuck in the bathroom for an extended period or just simply can't focus enough to watch what is essentially different shit boil...

Ah well, all in good time hopefully!

Sorry to hear about your crohns man, are you taking any cbd for that, I read its fantastic for all kinds of inflammation.

Also it would be great to see your results but a thought crossed my mind, this may be considered a tad bit more illegal than standard butane or alcohol extraction so posting PICTURES and VIDEOS would not be wise haha
But the INFORMATION you provide could be very helpful for anyone looking to make pure medicine without having to pay $70 a gram like at a harbor side

 

[Blunter the kid]

So I found a calculator for vacuum and temp, it's actually gonna be useful in helping to determine what temperature and vacuum to use to isolate THC.
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/wrzenie.html

So far I know the molecular mass of THC is 314 gm/mol and the boiling point at atmospheric pressure is 157 degrees celcius.
The value I'm looking for is the amount of heat needed to make one mole of thc vaporize at a consistent rate and I need that number measured in kJ/mol then I can plug the information into the calculator so I can take the information from it and make a chart of the boiling points of THC at various temperatures and pressures so people know this info without having to do all the math thats involved.

 

[ideletemyself]

Sorry to hear about your crohns man, are you taking any cbd for that, I read its fantastic for all kinds of inflammation.

Also it would be great to see your results but a thought crossed my mind, this may be considered a tad bit more illegal than standard butane or alcohol extraction so posting PICTURES and VIDEOS would not be wise haha
But the INFORMATION you provide could be very helpful for anyone looking to make pure medicine without having to pay $70 a gram like at a harbor side

I hear you on the possible legality issues. At the end of the day I guess I'm taking it on good faith that anyone looking at me and what I'm doing will know that I'm doing it for myself alone, for medical issues. I have no plans for selling any of whatever I end up with at any point in time. In fact, I couldn't afford to do any more than I already am financially. Maybe that's foolish and naive to think or assume but it's what I've resigned to at this point in my life.

Technically, in many states any concentrate or extraction is considered illegal even for medical purposes. Meaning, in some states the medical marijuana law only extends to the fresh flower buds and that's how it's supposed to be consumed and kept. So we're all still in a gray area when it comes to concentrates anyways...

If you think it's wise not to post pics & vids and rely on info alone then I'm cool with that. I don't want to bring any unwanted attention to these forums if that's a serious concern. But for me anyways, it's kinda the same reason why my avatar is my actual picture and this account is linked to my real Twitter account. I have my med card/recommendation, I have crohn's and my life is pretty much totally fucked because of it and as I said before this is all to treat myself alone and I'd like people to know this stuff helps real people like myself. It's not just some name on some forum which could be anyone halfway around the world. It's an actual person and this stuff is helping him, maybe it can help me? Maybe there's actually something to all the talk about concentrates... You know all that shite lol...

To me, this stuff and going gluten-free(since I have celiac disease as well as other auto immune diseases) are the only things that have helped me. And the chemistry side of things is just awesome in general. So when I can tell people about both all at the same time well to me that's why I'm posting all of this, so that others can learn and help themselves as well. Anyone getting into science because of this is great too. But I have thought of the consequences and whether or not to post images, vids, etc.. and thank you for your concern. This forum has been great so far! Oh and I haven't tried any straight CBD concentrate as of yet. The fractional distillation is what I was going to use to achieve my own CBD concentrate though, probably using that d-limonene when it finally gets here

 

[ideletemyself]

So I found a calculator for vacuum and temp, it's actually gonna be useful in helping to determine what temperature and vacuum to use to isolate THC.
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/wrzenie.html

So far I know the molecular mass of THC is 314 gm/mol and the boiling point at atmospheric pressure is 157 degrees celcius.
The value I'm looking for is the amount of heat needed to make one mole of thc vaporize at a consistent rate and I need that number measured in kJ/mol then I can plug the information into the calculator so I can take the information from it and make a chart of the boiling points of THC at various temperatures and pressures so people know this info without having to do all the math thats involved.

kiiiiiiiiiiick ass dude! Nice find..... if I come across any figures with that degree temp for the heat I'll be sure to relay that back to you or if I trial & error test run at some point next week

 

[ideletemyself]

so, I've been having a nice & right good organic chemistry weekend. Since my d-limonene & hexane have yet to arrive I just did my QWET extract again. I've been testing my equipment though with other things and figured out that I can pull a somewhat significant vacuum past the -29hg mark. Basically, on the Y split that I have on my garden hose for my condenser & aspirator, I simply ease back on the condenser's water pressure and bingo-bango a significantly more powerful vacuum... The problem I then run into is my kitchen's sink filling up with water too quickly lol...

My next 2 purchases for sure will be 1) a decently priced manometer, I could've sworn I saw a perfect analog manometer on UnitedNuclear.com but now I can't find it on their site or on any other website for that matter. So if I can find that one I'll buy it cuz it was something like $35 and had both inlet & outlets and even had it's own little metal feet to stand on. It was pretty sweet actually but ya now, can't find
Then 2) I'm thinking about moving my condenser's water supply from the Y-split garden hose to a simple bucket setup with something like this lil pump: Coolant Pump ... that way I can more easily make my water chilled by adding ice or dry ice to said bucket. The added bonus being more pressure for my aspirator as well as less water wasted in the process overall.

However, I really want to get a good allihn condenser and/or a soxhlet/allihn setup for refluxing/extraction purposes as well. Options, options, options... Might just pickup a good allihn or west condenser and wait on the soxhlet but I actually could make good use of the soxhlet with my other extractions... Hhhmmmmm.

 

[qwizoking]

I apologize, I'm kind of drunk and on some other stuff

I intended on leaving y'all alone, but seriously what's the point lol.
why are y'all even attempting to discuss whatever it is your trying to do (which is way beyond both of you)
singling out compounds isn't ideal and its much easier just to make it anyway. if you want a full rounded extract, make pure crystalline hash oil like I do, or copy some patents. just use a quick wash in a polar solvent I mean seriously. 10$ a gallon for what I pay