Why is defoliation so controversial?

Things got a little heated in another thread when I and another poster put up some pics of our defoliation. He “schwazzed” the plant and I did something much less extreme. This caused one of the main forum admins to come in and speak out against defoliation, with no small amount of derision towards me and the other poster, I might add.

I didn’t think this was controversial. I thought it was settled science that judicious defoliation virtually eliminates larf. Sure I understand urging some caution, and I personally do it incrementally like the guide in the link describes, except this it was a local friend that showed me how to do this.

I’ll admit I was skeptical but he challenged me to try it and I’m always up for a challenge. I got much less larf and now I swear by it. I know that lots of people are bound to fuck up their plants doing this, but I don’t think that means it should be categorically discouraged. There’s no one right way to do things after all.

I like to grow a lot of indica dominant plants with tight nodes. I get fan leaves laying on each other and restricted airflow if I don’t take fan leaves off. This technique is used in commercial agriculture too. I just don’t understand all the hate. I get almost no larf and it’s never even slowed my plants down.

I’d just like to hear some of your thoughts and see if a consensus can be reached. I agree with this article 100% and think it’s great advice. Here’s some pics of my plants in different stages of flowering, all defoliated almost identically to the method described in the article below.

my last run I defoliated like you did there, for the hell of it. I wasn’t impressed. Bud stayed on the smaller side. All of it. I follow another guy who did a side by side comparison and he had a better outcome just lollipopping and a light inner defol.

defol works best in moderation.

Some just go to the extreme, which is Not the proper "Defoliation technique".

Defoliating is where you selectively trim leaves and branches to form your tops...over a certain period of time, only removing upto 20% @ a time, over the course of a few weeks to a month. Shaping plant as needed...but always leaving most of plant material on the plant.

"Leafing" is term used for removing all the leaves, basically stripping it naked...which is Not defoliating.

I defoliate based on what the plant is telling me. If she has waaay to may leaves, some must be removed. Most the time the bottom leaves need to be cleared out but other than that, they can be left alone. And then as they go through flower, they kill off the biggest, oldest leaves first and as those die, I remove them when they look like most their nutes have been sucked out.

My experience is that it's best to let the plant tell me what it wants/needs.
If she is sativa leaning pheno that's lanky and minimal foliage I usually won't do anything.
On hash plants and pheno's that have tight node spacing, I strip heavily after stretch.
Some will hiccup a few days and others don't even slow down.,

I think people take the term defoliation too literally and get the term confused with lollipopping. Some strip the plant completely naked which is not gonna benefit the plant at all. It's like covering half the solar panels on your roof and expecting to produce more energy.

Lollipopping on the other hand is extremely beneficial. Completely strip the bottom 1/3 of the plant. This will get better airflow through the bottom of the canopy and root zone and focus energy into the main buds.

If your plants have tons of large fan leaves that are so close in proximity that they are bunched up causing poor airflow and transpiration buildup then it is wise to do occasional defoliation throughout the canopy as that can promote PM and rot.

From experience there is a correct time and an incorrect time for defoliation. I use defoliation and have had some bad results with timing. Knowing when to defoliate and when not too for me is what’s controversial. Its also that many believe “ natural” is best when in fact there are unnatural ways of growing for better product.

Trippyness said:

From experience there is a correct time and an incorrect time for defoliation. I use defoliation and have had some bad results with timing. Knowing when to defoliate and when not too for me is what’s controversial. Its also that many believe “ natural” is best when in fact there are unnatural ways of growing for better product.

Click to expand...

Mmmm..... Better yield... maybe.... but quality.... ALL natural baby.

When you grow a giant melon do you strip all the leaves off

Defoliation is just stupid.

lime73 said:

defol works best in moderation.

Some just go to the extreme, which is Not the proper "Defoliation technique".

Defoliating is where you selectively trim leaves and branches to form your tops...over a certain period of time, only removing upto 20% @ a time, over the course of a few weeks to a month. Shaping plant as needed...but always leaving most of plant material on the plant.

"Leafing" is term used for removing all the leaves, basically stripping it naked...which is Not defoliating.

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This is my attitude/philosophy. Everything in moderation. One thing I like to do in any hobby is bring up controversial/misunderstood techniques and try to clear up misconceptions. Your post is a great example of that.

Trippyness said:

From experience there is a correct time and an incorrect time for defoliation. I use defoliation and have had some bad results with timing. Knowing when to defoliate and when not too for me is what’s controversial. Its also that many believe “ natural” is best when in fact there are unnatural ways of growing for better product.

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I agree with that as well. Some plants have an open enough structure that they just don’t need it. I just tend to prefer bushy indica dominant phenos and they’ll just run riot if you don’t take leaves. To me it’s like pruning any other plant to have better control of its structure. It’s definitely not something that should be categorically discouraged because of old school grower dogma.

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I practice extreme defoliation at days 1 and 21 of flower, recently doing a 1 and day 16 of flower with good results.

I copied the method from Black Dog, who get great results - 1.4 grams per watt.

The leaves grow back, except not shading at the nodes like a giant fan leaf - they grow back around the bud sites.

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The argument that the plants wouldn't grow the leaves if it didn't need them fails because we're putting the plants in an environment that they didn't evolve in - constant light and nutrients.

Defoliating is no more unnatural than topping, using root pruning pots, Lsting.

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Oh my God your plans are naked....

Now your plants got to grow more leaves instead of buds

Hobbes said:

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I practice extreme defoliation at days 1 and 21 of flower, recently doing a 1 and day 16 of flower with good results.

I copied the method from Black Dog, who get great results - 1.4 grams per watt.

The leaves grow back, except not shading at the nodes like a giant fan leaf - they grow back around the bud sites.

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View attachment 4662386

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View attachment 4662393

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The argument that the plants wouldn't grow the leaves if it didn't need them fails because we're putting the plants in an environment that they didn't evolve in - constant light and nutrients.

Defoliating is no more unnatural than topping, using root pruning pots, Lsting.

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Click to expand...

thats hella risky man

How much photosynthesizing you recon them creamy white hairs do.

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We may argue about defoliation but there's one thing we can all agree on - Brawndo's got what plants crave!

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Hobbes said:

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I practice extreme defoliation at days 1 and 21 of flower, recently doing a 1 and day 16 of flower with good results.

I copied the method from Black Dog, who get great results - 1.4 grams per watt.

The leaves grow back, except not shading at the nodes like a giant fan leaf - they grow back around the bud sites.

.

View attachment 4662386

.

View attachment 4662393

.

The argument that the plants wouldn't grow the leaves if it didn't need them fails because we're putting the plants in an environment that they didn't evolve in - constant light and nutrients.

Defoliating is no more unnatural than topping, using root pruning pots, Lsting.

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Click to expand...

If you dont realize that that amount of stripping is not helpful to your plants, there is no hope for you.

Id still want to see a side by side comparison , with actual controls ...so we can see the results in real time...side by side. Doing whole crop shows nothing but plants recovering. IMO

Hobbes said:

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I practice extreme defoliation at days 1 and 21 of flower, recently doing a 1 and day 16 of flower with good results.

I copied the method from Black Dog, who get great results - 1.4 grams per watt.

The leaves grow back, except not shading at the nodes like a giant fan leaf - they grow back around the bud sites.

.

View attachment 4662386

.

View attachment 4662393

.

The argument that the plants wouldn't grow the leaves if it didn't need them fails because we're putting the plants in an environment that they didn't evolve in - constant light and nutrients.

Defoliating is no more unnatural than topping, using root pruning pots, Lsting.

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Click to expand...

You are stripping your plants of its solar panels which are necessary for photosynthesis at the most crucial times during flowering. The first 3 weeks of flower is when the most stretch happens and your plants are going to be busy replacing all the leaves you chopped. I'm sorry but that is not beneficial, it goes against basic science and biology.

It looks like you are trying to reveg post harvest.

The controversy is so many variables and people talking about different strains, grow mediums and styles. I think tent or smaller environment growers also have to consider the effect on humidity in the grow defoliation has.