What Quals as Organic?

USMC_PotOphile

Active Member
Exactly how much organic growing can you actually do inside? I want to do as close to organic as I can. I realize, artificial light given at a cycle that stomps the volume of UV from a natural day cycle, is one of my first problems for not really being organic but a few tips and the occasional question answered would be great. This is what we're working with right now. We're bringing all our girls up from seeds, we've played with cloning but think we'll probably stick with seeds, cloning requires equipment we don't have and don't know when we will have it. So seeds, germ'd in a cup, sprouted in peet pellets, then transfered to Foxfarm (FF) potting soils. We're keeping em in the bags. Just cutting holes and burying the pellets. Right now we have 6 per 1.5cf bag (too many/too little?). We've got half the crop in Ocean Forest, half in Happy Frog (personal opinions...which ones best?). Right now we're following the typical 13 week feeding schedule from FF except that we are also using a non-organic (i believe) Stress Aid, Supernatural (SN) Brand Green Stay. So I assume I already blew the organics by using that. We're also producing Co2 by using SN Excellofizz, I like the stuff and what its supposed to do, but I still think its a bit pricey. The whole SN brand...just cuz its out of BC, big deal. Sorry, personal venting moment. So thats what we're doing for the organic side. Equipment.... I'm currently using a HPS with a 4" duct and fan that pushes through a homemade carbon filter and pushes the old air out. Using a reconstructed box fan to pull fresh air from the Central Air in the floor, but have disconnected air flow to the room from the AC and Heater. Right now we've got them under a 1K MH and then in about 2-3 weeks we're going replace that bulb with a 1k HPS and start another cycle with the MH. We're hoping to get a couple 1k Son Agro's, if you know anyone that has them. Thats the closest we can get to organic light without putting them outside, and we don't have that kind of space. we keep the room at 69.5 Fahrenheit with a 2000 - 2300 ppm. Ph of soil this morning was average of 6.5 and N-P-k levels are 6.2 - 7.0 (target range?) We're fighting with the humidity lately and have to get a new barometer. What percent humidity is ideal?

How are we doing, this is our first real grow, but we're still extremely green and new to this. We've expiremented a bit, and we will probably continue to do so for the next couple of cycles, but I want public opinion too. Sorry no pics of the real crop till its almost done. 3 partners can't always agree on how to run a business.
:peace:
 

beenthere donethat

Well-Known Member
yo.

Lotsa info in yer post. You definitely have a grasp on the concept and where you're going with this. I only see a few things that may/may not be problems and a few things that may be stuff you don't really need to worry about.

First...my understanding of "organics" is that we're talking about the foods you feed em and the lack of pesticides used during the grow...and not the light source used. Not that such info matters to the plant...

Good move with the Ocean Forest. That stuff grows good dope. Between Happy Frog and OF I'd choose the OF....though either will work and are better choices thatn Miracle Grow...etc. Be careful though...'cus MG says "Organic" on their bag...but they then use non-organic ferts to *boost* the soil...killing the "organic" microbes present...if there are any in the first place.
If you can...add about 40% of vloume of perlite to the OF. This will cause you to have to water more often but will give the roots more asir in the rootzone and will produce larger plants and higher yileds.

I personally put only one plant in each container. More than one causes the plants to have to fight it out for rootspace and may cause problems in the future if there are pests or root related diseases.

If you *really* want to ramp this up you definitely need to learn how to clone this plant. Look at it this way...right now roughly 1/2 of your space is being wasted by growing males. This takes up valuable time and also poses a legal risk. Why grow plants you can't smoke? I was in the same boat as you about 15 years ago until someone showed me how to clone...and after that...my room TOOK OFF and I was able to settle into a ROUTINE that has kept me in bud for all of these years. I could do the same thing via seeds..but it would be ALOT more work and take alot more space.

On top of that, you'll always find variations in seeds...even from the same plant. If you find a special plant and don't clone it..it may take awhile to find another that resembles it...yields as good as it does..tastes as good as it does..etc. Again...all of this "sexing" process takes time and space that it sounds as if you really don't have. Once you clone the plant...EVERY plant you take will be the same...will offer the same yields..buzz...taste...etc.

And yeah...the SN nutes you are using are not organic. Neither is the "Grow Big" or the Cha Ching or whatever that stuff is in the pic in yer gallery. Good rule of thumb..if you see double digit numbers on the N-P-K listings isn't organic. (like 12-55-39). HOT ferts like those spell trouble for new growers, IMO. People tend to think the ferts are the key to BIG buds...and that MORE of these is gonna seal the deal....but in reality most folks get smaller buds or smaller plants because they TOXIFY their soils with large amounts of chems. Shit..you can OD a plant on guano/organics too..it's just a bit harder to do.

In the end, I'd use FAR FAR less of these *high number* ferts than directed IF I used them at all.

Your N-P-K levels don't make sense to me. These readings should be in ppms (parts per million) not a 6.0-7.0 type range. That sounds like pH readings here. For ppm readings you need to get a TDS or ppm digital pen. You can find em for about $40 or less on Ebay...and they are used in aquariums /etc so there's no worry about buying one and being tagged as a grower for doing so. I would DEFINITELY get the pen if I had the cash if you are going to use chem ferts like the SN or ChaChing/Beasties...etc. Otherwise...even ferting at recommended levels..at SOME POINT you will see toxic levels and experience lockout from the salts in these products. Again...less is better!

Humidity...keep it below 50% if you can. I know others grow at higher levels..but ya don't want bud rot or Powdery mildew or other problems that are humidity related on most occasions.

The best way to help keep levels in check is ventilation..and then..by using box fans..etc. to keep the air stirred up in the room. Staggering the watering cycles may also help...i,e...watering the bags in phases rather than all at once...etc.

The last thing I'll address for this post....and THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT HERE THAT WILL AFFECT YOUR SUCCESS is your "partnership"....

Bad news bro. It never works. Someone either jumps in and gives them a "secret" shot of ferts...killing em...or forgets to water...or the commits ULTIMATE SIN/DANGER ZONE.... BY TALKING ABOUT THE GARDEN TO EVEN MORE PEOPLE....

That..or one of the partners rips the entire grow out from under the other 2 at harvest time...

IF you get through this and you end up not getting ripped by one of your "friends"...or you don't get busted because they talk in a bar or elsewhere about the grow (cus it's "cool" to grow weed, ya know?)...you SERIOUSLY need to break away from this partnership and grow weed on your own.

When it's done...take yours...then talk of being freaked out abvout the law/the waiting/the whole gig......and get out of the partnership.

Then set up your own gig...telling NO ONE...even saying that "once weas enough and it isn't worth it"....etc.

I've done this for 20 years and going solo is THE ONLY way to go.

good luck

BT DT
 

USMC_PotOphile

Active Member
Well shit man, thanks for all the info. That's the best reply I've gotten and the most info anyone has volunteered. The Decimal system with the fert levels is an old style. You can do it that way, tubes and powders and soil tests and shit. It comes out much closer to accurate than some ways, just takes a lot of time. Cheap as hell though. And so you're saying you don't recommend just putting multiple plants into the soil bags? Smaller soil bags than? or should I be using a 1.5 ($15) qt bag of soil for each plant?
 

beenthere donethat

Well-Known Member
First...let me say I've never tried growing directly in a bag of OF, etc ...

I just think you'd be better off with individual pots...and something that is deeper rather than wider as your container. (2-3 gallon pots are ideal for bloom/plants finishing at 2-3 ft or so and offering 2-3 ounces each) I know from experience that you'll get a larger rootball/larger plant if you use the perlite in with the OF. Find Foxfarm "Big & Chunky" perlite or the coarsest grade of perlite you can. More airspace means more air means more roots means more yield. A mix that is too heavy will stunt root growth and plant size/health.

a coupla thoughts as to why I'd be leary of planting in a bag...

weight. Jesus F C...dat bag must weigh a ton when wet.

I like to rotate and move my plants within the grow space to keep them even/the same height/development.

If you over-fert...ALL of yer plants are gonna take the hit.

Harder to flush (you are using chem nutes and will more than likely have to flush the salts from the meduim before bloom)....especially if the bag sits directly on the floor and has no airspace/holes underneath

Tip: I'd suggest reading up on beneficial microbes like bacillus/trichoderma/streptomyces...and mycorrihzae. Using these organisms early on will help build the root mass you need to get big yields.
soilsecrets .com or horticulturalalliance .com have great products and info.

IMO...the secret is to build a root mass faster than you build top growth (more like a hydro grow than a soil grow). Then when you go into flower the plant simply EXPLODES.

I'm lazy and stoned bro. Tell me again what strains you're growing.


good luck

bt dt
 

USMC_PotOphile

Active Member
Actually we have rooting gel. Received it as a gift from a buddy who came over and gave us a little cloning class. We're working on it.
 
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