What LED Growers Want

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by HydroGrowLED, Apr 15, 2019 at 1:34 PM.


    HydroGrowLED Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    As a company part of what fueled our grow light development was listening to our customers. Over the years many customers had great ideas, feature requests and other feedback that helped us develop better and better grow lights. I'm a firm believer in asking questions and listening to responses. I feel it's important to get to know the consumer and their needs as they change with time.

    So as a manufacturer in the field, what is it that LED growers today want? For example do you want more DIY options? The ability to customize your own PCBs with your own wavelengths and ratios? Is having a spectral controller important to you? Do you want all-white panels? Etc...

    This is an open forum for those who use LEDs (or are interested in them) to post about design features they wish were available, functions you want but don't have, etc... I look forward to your replies and seeing what the LED consumer in 2019 wants the market to look like.
    hybridway2 likes this.

    delstele Well-Known Member

    I would like honest and open discussions, Fair prices, DYI kit's that come with options. No bullshit claims about the lighting's power and or output..

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    Funny thing is, even laying out clearly like that to them, it still won't happen
    dandyrandy and delstele like this.

    TEKNIK Well-Known Member

    The very first thing you should do before you attempt to continue to discuss what you want to do next is pay some money to a certified laboratory to have your current products formally tested for efficiency. If you can not provide sufficient information regarding efficiency on your current products then don't even bother to consider making a new product. People on here are far to smart for 10 year old sales tactics and they want real information. Do your side by side comparisons and spend some money at a lab so you can see how far behind you are in every aspect of horticulture lighting, noone wants to hear the sales tactics anymore, they want facts and that starts with testing in a Lab. For a company that makes statements like you do regarding how much better your product is than everyone else's it should be no problem to have a formal test done in a lab as you are a very very rich man.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 3:22 PM
    whytewidow, zypheruk, GBAUTO and 7 others like this.

    kotobide Well-Known Member

    Johnny Lawrence

    Johnny Lawrence Well-Known Member

    Me personally? I want a 600 watt light for $1600.

    Think you can help me with that???
    SSGrower and UncleFat-Nug like this.

    dandyrandy Well-Known Member

    One constructive criticism would be quiet fans. I want to be able to stick my head against the other side of the grow room and hear nothing. Stealth.

    HydroGrowLED Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    I do appreciate your feedback and that you want testing done on our lights, but you forgot to mention which test it is that is most important to you. Based on what you are saying, every grow light should be tested via the method whether HPS, MH, CFL, Plasma, Induction or LED. And yet HPS is still rated in lumens for growing plants (and it's still the #1 light used world-wide in commercial greenhouse and cannabis operations).

    As someone who was once the head grower and owner of a dispensary, I can tell you what was most important to me about my grow lights, and it wasn't about arbitrary numbers that don't tell you a darn thing about what a light can actually do compared to another. What mattered to me was "how much can I yield per watt", and "is my THC/CBD the same or higher than my current lights?". To most growers this is what matters to them most, especially the commercial growers I have worked with over the past decade. The most important metric to them is grams per watt. This determines their profitability and cost of operation. I understand this is not what seems to be most important to you about a grow light, but it's still what's most important to me and most business owners who focus on ROI and profitability. Telling your buddy "hey I got 20% more umol/joule than you" is a whole lot less impressive than saying "damn I got 20% more yield per watt than you".

    If umol/joule was the holy grail, or a LM-79 test, then what you're saying is that "All wavelengths, all photons are created equal. PAR does not exist - it is a pseudo science. Plants grow the same regardless of what spectrum or color they are grown under". And yet we know from countless testing that plants respond to different colors in different ways, or people wouldn't use MH for veg and HPS for bloom. So umol/joule doesn't even begin to tell you how that spectrum is going to perform at a set fluence rate compared to another, nor does it tell you what the growth characteristics of your plant will be (tall, short, lanky, thick, deficient). In time I hope you and others on here will see this, because right now all these new companies have you focusing on numbers that don't equate to real-life results.

    In the meanwhile please keep replies to this thread on-topic. If you want to give me some constructive criticism I welcome you to send me a PM or put a response on my grow light thread in the advertisers section :)
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 10:46 PM
    hybridway2 and f series like this.

    HydroGrowLED Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    Back in the day my approach to business is different than it is now. While I still aim to prove that our lights are the #1 performing in the world (via side-by-side tests), I'm not opposed to selling people what they want. There is a whole untapped DIY market we don't sell to presently and various things that might not yet be available that people want to see. So for those that want something specific, even if it's not the most efficient, I'd rather they buy it from us than a competitor. I do plan to use feedback from this thread to expand our offerings and development.

    What kind of options do you want to see for DIY? What kind of price point do you want to see per watt? What is the standard warranty currently offered on DIY lights (if you know)?
    hybridway2 likes this.

    TEKNIK Well-Known Member

    The people here want to see your efficiency in umol/joule, an LM-79 would also be nice but as you are a noob to facts an efficiency test is a good place to start. If you truly do have a magical spectrum you should try using some decent LED's to produce that spectrum instead of the 20cent ones that you use now, that may also help to justify your ridiculous price for some thing that looks exactly like a cheap Chinese made light.
    Go get that LAB test done by a LAB in the USA also not a Chinese LAB. For a guy that says they produced their own integration sphere you should understand why people want facts over marketing.
    radiant Rudy likes this.
    Rocket Soul

    Rocket Soul Well-Known Member

    Quitt squirming around and show some results: if this light yields sooo much, show the documented grows or give one away for a side by side. I believe this is what you wanted? If no, then show some independent testing. Every other professional lighting company does. Also, if you wonder why your lights are met with scepticism: the umol/w numbers you presented in the other thread where complete bogus: youre quoting impossible numbers. Which makes people think youre either liar or not very competent.

    TEKNIK Well-Known Member

    What my concern is with someone that is clearly trying to worm around official tests is that they will produce a superior one off light to send to a lab only to then not use the exact same chips for the regular sales, this is a very common sales tactic used in the LED industry by companies that have rubbish led chips in their products. They will however talk about NASA any opportunity they get.
    radiant Rudy, CobKits and Rocket Soul like this.

    sethimus Well-Known Member

    fuck off scammer, sell your shit lights somewhere else. once a snitch, always a snitch
    radiant Rudy likes this.

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    You're just super rude to anyone and everyone you come in contact with aintcha?

    sethimus Well-Known Member

    i highly suggest you research her before commenting...
    radiant Rudy likes this.

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    I know all about it. But the way you worded your post was fucked up
    Lordhooha likes this.

    HydroGrowLED Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    I understand you and a few others on this forum would like to see a umol/joule reading, and that you personally would like to see a LM-79. While this thread is for posting what you'd like to see, it's up to me to pick and choose what I will do at the end of the day. I will take your request into consideration.

    Having said that a LM-79 test provides total flux, electrical power, efficacy and chromaticity. I have zero interest in the flux readings on our lights. Flux readings are meant for white LEDs used for general illumination for human beings. Now a LM test performed with total PPFD I would be inclined to do, but Lux has nothing to do with how many photons of light are available for absorption by Chlorophyll to undergo photosynthesis. If I was designing stadium or road lights, a LM-79 would certainly be standard. But with grow lights the primary measurement that matters is PPFD.

    It's the easiest way for a lot of these guys to work out frustrations they're going through in their own lives that have nothing to do with the person they hate on. So if they need to vent, by all means let them vent. They can call me all the names under the sun, but it doesn't mean I'm any one of them. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

    If you look at my signature you will see we are already giving away lights for side-by-side comparisons against HID and LED, as well as a micro grow. While there are over 100 grow journals around the web using generations of our lights all the way back to 2009, people like to say "that's old, show me something new". Whether old or not, the results were still the same. Moderators on other forums have been given test lights, and one by one showed our lights superior to HID and other LEDs. So the testing is there if you want to look for it, but it doesn't mean you'll believe it. I suggest putting your name in the hat for our giveaway so you can believe the results for yourself when our lights do exactly as claimed.

    As per impossible numbers, I'm going to make a thread about that today. I do hope you tune in for it. All I do is report data, I don't write the laws of physics.
    hybridway2 likes this.
    Rocket Soul

    Rocket Soul Well-Known Member

    How about a link to those grows? i googled hydro grow led side by side with a few different forums and nothing pops up, well, no side by sides... could you at least say what forum these great results are from?

    on the ppf numbers, please post the thread ill tune in
    radiant Rudy and mnmobbin like this.

    HydroGrowLED Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    I don't think I'll have time today, but tomorrow I will search through some old threads I made which had tens of links to various journals around the web. I'll see what I can dig up and make a list that I will post here for those that are interested in seeing it.

    The PPF numbers have been posted: Umol/Watt "Impossible" Readings

    OneHitDone Well-Known Member

    Ok, to begin with I would like to see an LED Company that truly offers a start to finish lighting solution.
    A DIRECT T5 replacement that actually grows plants with proper photogenic characteristics for propagation and vegging.
    A nice veg spec light at a low cost - 2x2 and 2x4 coverage formats
    A flower specific light at a low cost - 2.5 x 2.5 and 5x5 coverage formats
    A flower and veg switchable fixture at a low cost - 2.5 x 2.5 and 5x5 coverage formats
    All should have dimmable functions standard

    Now for all this testing talk. It is getting old how decisive the led section on this site is with so many getting religiously uptight about it.
    Let me resolve some issues - @HydroGrowLED send one of your 4 puck lights to @TEKNIK so he can use his equipment to create and IES file of the par output.
    I'm sure would be cheaper to send him the light on the other side of the planet than to pay for such testing.
    You good with testing for free provided the light @TEKNIK
    We can turn this into a win win for everyone.
    I am definitely in the @HydroGrowLED corner on the fact that "White Led" is not where it is at. :peace:
    hybridway2, getogrow and Rocket Soul like this.

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