Veganic Coots Variation Recipe Advice? Crab Sub. and Perlite v Lavastone?

To the point -> Check out my recipe so far, please advise on how it looks, I am trying the old Clackamas recipe, I have three questions/concerns -->

1. I would like to source replacements for the Crab meal and Oyster flour... I really really do not want this to be a debate on the why, please just let me know what good replacement....

Ok but if you must know I do not to use animal products for environmental (I like the sea and air) and ethical (I like animals to feel alright) reasons. So..

2. Should I be adding something other than perlite for aeration? I hear lava rocks are good too, are we talking literally the thing landscapers use to decorate around pools? I would love to use that as its 1/4 the cost per cu Ft. of perlite.

3. As I am keeping animal products out of this soil, what is a good sub for oyster flour? I suppose I could use gypsum but the only kind around here is pelletilized, do I have to CRUSH it all up?


Clackamas Coot's Recipe
1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss
1/3 Aeration (pumice, perlite, lava rock, etc..)
1/3 Compost + Earthworm Castings
To each 1 c.f.
1/2 cup organic Neem meal
1/2 cup organic Kelp meal
1/2 cup Crab meal or Crustacean meal
4 cups of Mineral Mix aka rock dust
Mineral Mix Recipe 1x – Glacial Rock Dust 1x – Gypsum 1x – Oyster Shell Flour or Agricultural Lime 1x – Basalt

So far I am starting to order and source the ingredients in the classic Clackamas Coot recipe:



But I would love the input on what I have so far,


Base mix:
1/3 Canadian Peat
1/3 Perlite
1/3 Local EWC

To which I will add

Neem meal
Alfalfa Meal ( Replace Crab meal?)
Kelp Meal

Glacial Rock Dust
Gypsum
Azomite



Please let me know if there is a ratio of the above that you really recommend, or if there are ingredients that you really think i should be adding.

Can I substitute alfalfa meal 1:1 in place of Crab/Crustacean meal?
Should I use lava stone instead of perlite for at least some or any or all aeration?
Should I be crushing up pellets of gypsum, or just go ahead and order some micronized stuff? Do i sub with agricultural lime?


Gimme your thoughts
Thanks!

KP

Perlite makes a lighter soil than lava rock, but lava rock doesn't float to the surface when disturbed.
Lava rock is also HEAVY.... If you have to move this dirt, i recommend perlite.
If it's a "permanent" placement that doesn't have to be moved, lava rock is good.

Alfalfa does not sub for crab meal. The crab meal is used for the chitin it contains. Insect frass would be a suitable substitute for example. Alfalfa is good stuff to use as is, but can literally burn plants from the heat it generates.

Use dolomite lime in place of OSF. They are both liming agents (gypsum is NOT), and I use dolomite in place of OSF. Locally, it's $4.50/40lb bag at Lowes or HD. Get the 'pulverized' (powdered), not the pellets. Use it @1cup/cf of mix, NOT as part of some mix. Coot was wrong there.

BTW, 1 cup each of the azomite and the rock dust is more than adequate for your mineral needs.

No experience using rocks for aeration, but over 45 years of using perlite. Locally, perlite is just under $5/cf ($19/4cf bag). Pumice is close to $20/cf and lava rock not much cheaper. Pumice, I might consider, since it's fairly light and porus, but lava rock, IMO, is unsuitable in every way.. But, that's IMO.

Wet

Wetdog said:

but lava rock, IMO, is unsuitable in every way.. But, that's IMO

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Why?
It's a common addition here, because by the yard, it's cheaper than perlite, and permanent gardens are a thing.

But there's also much garden superstition and mistrust of new methods here...

Hey thanks to both for replies!

Yeah I have been reading more and finding that coots recipe with 4 cups per cu ft was WAY overboard,
think im just narrowing back down to azomite and dolomite lime.

Wow 19$ / 4 cu ft!

Thats like half of what most of it is around here upper mid west, though I thought I remember it being far cheaper back when I was doing indoors. I had one breif experiment where I 'made' 'promix', but it was a lot of mixing for what was still not much savings.

I think I am going to stick with perlite, even thought its actually going straight into the ground. I dont want to mess with what I have read about lava rock washing off wierd shit to wreck pH, perlite aint cheap but atleast I know it works.

Karma Pharmer said:

Hey thanks to both for replies!

Yeah I have been reading more and finding that coots recipe with 4 cups per cu ft was WAY overboard,
think im just narrowing back down to azomite and dolomite lime.

Wow 19$ / 4 cu ft!

Thats like half of what most of it is around here upper mid west, though I thought I remember it being far cheaper back when I was doing indoors. I had one breif experiment where I 'made' 'promix', but it was a lot of mixing for what was still not much savings.

I think I am going to stick with perlite, even thought its actually going straight into the ground. I dont want to mess with what I have read about lava rock washing off wierd shit to wreck pH, perlite aint cheap but atleast I know it works.

Click to expand...

I like lava rock, but perlite always wins out on soil density. I just get irritated at perlite's tendency to float

Some of my fav aerations over perlite and lava include:

Leaf mould
Pumice, &
Activated BioChar

DonTesla said:

Activated BioChar

Click to expand...

I'd like to try that one next season.

Miyagismokes said:

I like lava rock, but perlite always wins out on soil density. I just get irritated at perlite's tendency to float

Click to expand...

So, use that. I use perlite as a mulch (outside only), because it does float. Top dress whatever right on top of it. Water well. The perlite floats up, whatever was top dressed sinks to the surface of the mix, the perlite settles down to cover & keep moist the surface and the topdress.

I also use a combination of perlite and pine bark mulch that works really well. That was a happy accident when I put some pine bark mulch on top of perlite. It mixed and stayed mixed, which surprised me. I figured it would separate with a heavy watering and it didn't.

We don't have any of the 'right' kinds of volcanos even sorta close, so pumice, scoria and even lava rock are imported. We do have plenty of granite though.

Wet

Yeah rotting wood is another awesome one, just gotta make sure its charged and well broken down is all.. plenty of that in nature!