Upper fan leaves canoeing and discolored

Hello every1, I have previously made a thread for this issue but it has gotten worse even after trying some solutions.

Currently on my first grow and my plants are just 4 or 5 days under a month old and 3 weeks into veg, my avatar shows a recent pic. This is a tent grow using a 2x2 ebb and flow system with fox farm organic hydro nutes and they are under a t5 fluorescent 20k lumen 6500k light. I water my plants every 4 hours, keep the ph from 5.6 to 5.8.

Below are pictures of the 2 fan leaves on my plant that seem to be unhappy, I started a thread and got some responses saying I may have a mag deficiency, so I went to walgreens and got some epsom salt and used under the recommended amount which was 1 tsp a gallon I only added 6 or 7 tsp's to hot water and added it to my res and theres around 12 gallons in my rez.

Anybody know what the problem is with these leaves, should I just go ahead and cut them off? will this issue spread to other leaves !!! its the only plant in my garden with leaves this fucked up and it just so happens to be the best plant in my garden so im freakin out.

PS i know it looks like these plants are in flowering but im vegging them under a hps light until my 2nd veg fluorescent gets here. Only been doing it for a day because my fluorscent doesnt cover the entire plants anymore by itself. I know this cant have anything to do with my problem cause these fans get enough light. I think something else is going on and I cant figure out what but last night they were just discolored now they are curled up and taco'd even after adding the epsom salt to my res in a very minimal amount.


After inspecting the rest of the plant, I can see other leaves that are going down the same path my big fans have, they are starting to show signs of the same discoloration and in a few days may start curling as well.

Hard to tell with the pics under the hps but....Looks like nute burn or extreme pH problems.

Did you check the pH after adding the salts?

With epsom salts I only use before a deficiency. If a deficiency is showing maybe you should use some cal/mag or magical or some type of product like that.

was the water hot in your res? whats the temps in the room, humidity?

If you got the hot water from the tap there is a very good chance you introduced 'calcified lime' to the grow. Bad, bad stuff. It will cause too many issues to list. Never ever use hot water from the tap..............

okay.. I was smart enough to put some big frozen gel packs in my res to cool it down after adding the hot water to the rez, when I took them out the water was cool. I dont know if its nute burn, I always thoroughly mix my nutes at the right dosage, I also add a table spoon of h2o2 3% for each gallon sense im using organic nutes.

As for pH, humidity, and temp.. This is an indoor grow, my apartment to be exact and it stays 70 degrees in here for them plants. Even with the HPS over the canapy, it stays around 74 in that tent cause of the air circulation. I check my pH like 5 times a day before waterings usually its always between 5.6 and 5.8 no acception and the pH has never been off once for a watering lol.

Last night these leaves just showed the burn looking texture on the leaves which I have been aware of but when I woke up, the sides were taco'd on 1 of the leafs and the other was curling upwards.

cowboylogic said:

If you got the hot water from the tap there is a very good chance you introduced 'calcified lime' to the grow. Bad, bad stuff. It will cause too many issues to list. Never ever use hot water from the tap..............

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I microwaved the water and added the epsom salt

Sense I added the epson salt solution directly to my res water, should I just do a res change with fresh pH water and add the epsom salt, I herd that corrects nutrient lockout but sense I dont know what im experiencing, I dont know if thats neccessary sense this res was changed a few days ago.

In my experience, leaves taco from too much heat. I don't think it's ph as you would likely see more micro nute problems. The pics are hard to see in that light. A couple questions as I kind of suspect TMV.

Are these grown from clones? If so, where did you get them?
Are there leaves that are curling sideways; like a sickle, not curling down or up?
Are some of the leaves textured or bumpy?
The biggest sign.. Parralell bands of discoloration on only one side of the leaf.

I always heard of people doing foliar applications with epsom salts. You should get a temp gauge and rh meter. theyre 5-10$ from walmart. The plant could have a salt buildup and trying to dissipate it.

Have you got any positive results of TMV from tissue samples? People that have the signs of TMV have sent some away and they came back negative. The curl can normally be subsided by upping the calcium. I hear OG strains are notorious for liking the calmag and will show signs of it if not given enough

legallyflying said:

In my experience, leaves taco from too much heat. I don't think it's ph as you would likely see more micro nute problems. The pics are hard to see in that light. A couple questions as I kind of suspect TMV.

Are these grown from clones? If so, where did you get them?
Are there leaves that are curling sideways; like a sickle, not curling down or up?
Are some of the leaves textured or bumpy?
The biggest sign.. Parralell bands of discoloration on only one side of the leaf.

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Yes the leaves are textured and bumpy and look like they are burned from something but it cant possibly be heat its 74 degrees in that tent even with the hps running. They are curling up and its not all the leaves, its just a few of the major fan leaves, but it usually happens to the very bottom leaves now its getting closer to the big top fans.

The 2 big fans that had these problems have been removed because they looked damaged beyond repair. I see small signs of that bumpy texture on some other leaves though.

Also i dont think you should run h2o2 with organic nutes. The hydrogen peroxide isnt good for them (organics) whats the ppm when you feed?

Ahhhhh... I must have misread somewhere where it said to use H2o2 in your nute res but I think your just supposed to do it between res changes. Correct me if im wrong of course, Im still looking for the proper use instructions of H2o2

H2O2 every 3 days in a res is fine if you are going for keeping microbes down, if you use microbial additives then it doesn't make sense. What is your EC or PPM?

If the leaves are turning whitish and crispy then the are getting burnt. They typically twist though, not curl up. Curling up usually means they are asking for something. I would foliar feed with a high quality penetrator and 1/4 strength nutes.

You only need to be using h2o2 if your Rez is above 71 or so. Bad stuff happens in warm Rez

No hooked leaves? Some look hooked in your picture.

dudeface said:

H2O2 every 3 days in a res is fine if you are going for keeping microbes down, if you use microbial additives then it doesn't make sense. What is your EC or PPM?

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Im having money issues so I cant afford a PPM meter lol. Been doin some research and evidently using H2o2 with organic nutes (Fox farm) is a party foul, using it to clean out your system and circulate through the roots is suggested between res changes but as far as using H2o2 as an additive to a organic res is a bad bad idea... I could be wrong but Im currently trying to fix this damn problem within the next few weeks cause these bitches are ready for flowering.

The only reason I started using H2o2 in the first place was because my res was starting to experience a foul smell where I couldnt figure out why cause the water stays cool and there are no light leaks. I had some success in keeping my res odorless for like up to a week or so but then it started getting smelly so I had to start adding H2o2 to the mix. I might go GH for my next grow just to alleviate these damn obstacles but honestly for my first grow, it has gone close to flawless.. a few fans here and there showing these signs of a deficiency but usually just cut them off an plant looks perfect again. I ordered some florakleen and I just did an epsom salt flush so when I get that florakleen ill do another flush before I adjust nutes for flowering.

legallyflying said:

If the leaves are turning whitish and crispy then the are getting burnt. They typically twist though, not curl up. Curling up usually means they are asking for something. I would foliar feed with a high quality penetrator and 1/4 strength nutes.

You only need to be using h2o2 if your Rez is above 71 or so. Bad stuff happens in warm Rez

No hooked leaves? Some look hooked in your picture.

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I did a foilar feed with epsom salt as some said I had a mag/cal def so I sprayed my plants with a 1 tsp / quart mix as perscribed on this article I read and then a few hours after the plants were dry I sprayed with distilled water to wash off build up as perscribed.

As far as the leaves turning whitish, the first signs of any kind of issue with a leaf usually starts out with the thick green color on top of the leaf starting to fade in little spots as if it was scrapped off in little patches then days go by and those spots start turning brownish and spreading over to other parts of the leaf thats normally where I consider the leaf beyond repair and I just cut it off.

Should I really foilar feed with my fox farm nutes at 1/4 strength?

O.. and yes I have experienced one leaf twisting as you described its in 1 of my pictures, but its the only 1. I cant imagine heat stress on my garden because of how cool the tent stays and how far the HPS light currently is from the tops of the plants.. I put my hand close to the tops of the plants to check for heat and the heat is almost unoticable.

Forgot to mention anywhere in this thread that I cut about 6 of the lowest branchs off for better airflow and to promote growth to higher nodes and leaves.. I cant honostly say if this problem has been persisting sense I did that but Im going to say that it was present before I cut those bottom braches off.. Heres another pic.. its the only leaf left with any symptoms but I can see some other leaves forming similar problems.. I need to get this fixed >.<

Sorry its under my HPS light, to lazy to get my veg light sense the HPS is already up but I can see the spots just fine!!

Its a micro nutrient deficiency. How often are you chnanging your rez? You should change it every week during flower! Probably during veg as well if your running organics.

Here is the low down on hydro, nutrients, and chemistry. Some nutrients (particularly) the micro nutrients can react with each other in a manner that one or both are not available for uptake. Typically this happens when the concentration of one or the other is too high. Plants uptake nutrients at different rates and different times. So if they are uptaking on or two nutrients in particular, your nutrient solution could become imbalanced. Imbalanced to the point that other nutrients are getting locked out. This is caused nutrient antagonism and I told you to gooogle it
Adding one type of nutrient to the rez could make it worse. I would suspect that this situation would be excerbated with using organic nutrients (100% from the breakdown of living organisms) as the micro nutrients in this type of situation are a little less stable. That is why its always best to change out your rez and start with a fresh, nicely balanced mixture of nutrients. Also, some critical elements, specifically iron, never last that long in the rez.

ok? ok.

In terms of foliar feeding, its game on my man. I foliar feed twice a week with a special concoction of mine. Sugars are much more easily abosrbed through the leaf tissue as are folic acids and aminos. Here are a couple links you should look into:

http://www.simplyhydro.com/foliar_feeding.htm

http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=646&yearVar=2010&issueVar=December

http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=631&yearVar=2010&issueVar=November

http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=589&yearVar=2010&issueVar=July

http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=589&yearVar=2010&issueVar=July