Topping off with nutrients

When I did stand alone buckets I would always add back with nutrients, A lot easier than a 8 site RDWC . Never knew you were supposed to add only fresh water . Just seems to me that not running at optimum PPMs until you replenish your rez would cause malnutrition ? And if you are to add back with nutrients to an all ready nuted rez but are always supposed to add the micros first does this not cause a problem because you are not supposed to take a reading until filled back up to the fill line with freash water to get the proper PPM reading.
I used to run my buckets for a month or so before fully dumping. I really don't want to dump a 35 gallon system once a week.

Does any buddy use this calculater and does it matter if you add Micros first to a all ready mixed Rez ?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxw...yNWEtYmRlODkzNDU1OWZh/edit?ddrp=1&hl=en&pli=1#

And is stoner terms can someone pleas explain how to work this equotation. I don't know what the symbols mean

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users)

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330.

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation:

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml)

Example:

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330.

I just top off with fresh RO water and Check the PH of the water, change res every sunday.

Im leaning in that direction if I cant figure out these silly questions.

Great question..My logical thinking says to dump all your water at the end of your cycle. This is likely wrong. Can anyone help us?

Once my res is made and adjusted I never add back nutes. You have no idea what elements have been used more and less by the plants and by adding back more nutes you are skewing the ratios. This never gets back to correct ratios. Let them use the res then change it.

Interesting read on the specific nutrients levels of each Element in each nutrient manufacture weather you use one bottle or 5 bottles and pay a little or lot more .

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/greenhouse_veg/pdf/GrowingGHTomates.pdf


from the above data, using pH's spreadsheet, http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fou...remixppm3b.zip
with weights checked, the following dosages produced the net elemental values for the following GH, Canna, and PBP formulas.. I strongly encourage folks to input the net weight of their nutrient bottles when using pH's premix spreadsheet. Thick products like FloraNova, especially benefit from this data, because it raises the net NPKMG calculations significantly.

note the Canna Coco Bloom recipe profile, it is about a 33% dilution of the 8ml GH Micro, plus 16 ml per gallon of GH Bloom formula.. (but with more Nitrogen).. Maybe medium based nutes are intentionally weak, so they accumulate in the pot?

8ml GH Micro 16 ml GH Bloom, is my guru pH's baseline bloom formula (pH is a person) derived from the Mel Frank targets, which suggest a 100-100-200-60 goal for NPKMG values in bloom Both GH Flora series nutes and the Flora Nova series, achieve Mel Franks targets without additives. Here is a link to Mel's specs http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fou...s/profiles.htm
pH's "Lucas Formula" values for 8ml micro, 16ml bloom
n 130
p 106
k 183
Mg 73

8 Flora Nova grow. Flora Nova is the one bottle solution to nutrients, note this mix is almost identical to Canna Aqua Vega, and GrowGreen's Nute Recipe
n 217
p 54
k 257
Mg 46

8 fnBloom
n 124
p 108
k 180
Mg 62

GH's baseline Flora Series, the 3 bottles, green purple and red, (different from Flora Nova series) veg formula
GH 15grow, 10micro, 5bloom
211
46
263
40

and GH 3 part bloom formula
GH 5grow, 10micro, 15bloom
159
92
219
66


canna coco 5.7a plus 5.7b (this is their baseline 3ml per liter formula), the highest dosage they recommend is 14ml/gal of canna coco A plus 14 of . This mix (5.7ml/gal) is less than 1/3 strength of GH Flora Nova Bloom @8ml per gallon on the P, K and Mg..
N 87
P 30
K 43
Mg 17


canna coco 8/a and 8/b
121
42
60
24

Here is canna coco's strongest bloom mix, before the pk14 boost. it resembles the GH FloraNovaGrow recipe in its Nitrogen level
canna coco 14/a and 14/b
212
74
106
42

Here we see Canna Coco hitting hard with P and K
canna coco 14/a and 14/b plus 6ml pk13-14

212
177
317
42

pk 13-14 alone
0
103
212

here is Canna Aqua Vega at mfg rec of 3ml per litre each of A and B (very similar to GH's veg mix)
208
45
230
35

and here is Canna Aqua Flores at 3ml/litre each of A and B (it does not resemble GH bloom recipes, but is slightly similar to 15ml PBPBloom plus 5ml Cal Mag)
138
60
316
42

Here is PureBlendPro Bloom @ 15ml/gal
129
45
214
26

and PBPBloom 15, plus 5 cal mag (GrowGreen's formula) it resembles the grow formula of FloraNova @8ml, as well as GH's 15Grow, 10Micro, 5 bloom formulations, the most copied recipe Ive found. It seems competition only copied GH's veg formula for the most part..
Note also that GrowGreen has contributed a total nutes per crop spec, of 15ml per 40 gallons, or 20 ounces of PBPBloom per 1k crop.. a very interesting spec, resulting in about 5000 total ppm of N per croplife..
161
45
214
45

I dont know why Canna and PBP use such lower P and Mg levels than GH, nor do Canna and PBP hit Mel Franks 100-100-200-60 targets the way GH does. Yet folks with Canna and PBP produce excellent results, just like folks with GH do.

There does seem to be a difference in the design of Canna Aqua compared to Canna Coco, and PBP is similar to Canna Coco.. which leads me to think that DWC nute levels can be much higher than medium based nutes that expect accumulation to occur in the medium..

Bear in mind that when looking at Canna Aqua Flores, the K level is rather high, and this inhibits uptake of Mg, which is already a bit low imho.. I have heard repeatedly that Canna Aqua, AND Canna Coco produce Mg deficiency if not supplemented with Epsom at the rate of 1/4tsp per gallon...

I used to recommend PBP be supplemented with Epsom also, but Cal Mag is a better option, as it also adds N

I hope this thread helps to develop an archive of effective nutrient mixes. I can add analysis of other products and combinations if people want to know their profiles and are not spreadsheet savvy.

To do that, I need guaranteed analysis info from the label of the products being used, as well as the net weight of the bottled products.

for those not familiar with the origin of the "Lucas Formula", it was developed by pH in his Ebb/Flow system. I adopted his recipe for DWC, after learning about bubblers from Highgrade. I assumed that DWC and Ebb Flow could be fed at the same nutrient strength and ratios. It worked. I dont know why Canna and Botanicare (makers of Pure Blend) use such lower P and Mg levels.. Even if they are designed for medium, does not Ebb Flow have similar nute accumulations as medium based grows? Maybe not. Even though Ebb Flow does concentrate nutes in the rox between irrigations, they may be flushed out each time the flood comes, unlike the case with Canna Coco, or PBP in soilless mixes like Sunshine..

But to confound that possibility, here comes GrowGreen in ebb flow, using PBP, and its low P and Mg levels..

Its still a mystery to me why GrowGreen gets such good results from such low nute concentrations, whereas folks like ceteris paribus, also in ebb flow, get similar good results as GG, but using the Lucas Formula, with its higher P and Mg levels..

At this stage of my learning, out of all the possible systems and nutrients, Im inclined to recommend Ebb Flow with Flora Nova nutrients. I remain loyal to GH because of the simplicity of using no additives, and now also because the Nova series has everything in just one bottle.

The one reason to consider PBP in my opinion, is that folks think of it as "organic". To understand more of the details comprising the use of the term organic, check out this article on the GH website:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=2

"Many attempts have been made to create the perfect organic-
hydroponic nutrient, but so far nothing matches the purified
mineral salts used in formulating hydroponic nutrient solutions.
We note that the European Economic Community (EEC) has
established the category of "mineral organic" for foods grown with
the required mineral nutrients to supplement an organic base of
nitrogen. We previously touched on the fact that United States
agricultural regulations are currently set and applied at the state
level but practically all states prohibit the use of refined ingredients
to cultivate “organic" crops; only mined minerals can be used.
Surprisingly, this precludes organic growers from using
pharmaceutical or food grade ingredients to formulate fertilizers."

I hope others will help me learn more about the reasons why non GH nutes are so low in P and Mg..

Lucas
It's long but there it is. Peace

I ran the lucas formula for a long time. Now I'm using flora nova, and cal mag. I only change my res about once every 3-4 weeks, and add back in between. Been doing it like that for about 4 years. I alternate between plain water and nutes. Typically I'll add about 5 gallons of plain water to the 45 gallon res every 3 days or so. Every other time I will also add the amount of nutes that would go into that 5 gallons. This typically leaves me with a ppm right where I want it(about 1100). Most of the time my plants are nice and green all the way till harvest. Theres lots of ways to do it all though. Obviously I don't know exactly what the plants are drinking all the time, but if they are happy so am I. I also run any where from 2-6 strains(at various stages of flower) at a time on the same res and nutes. Some times one strain won't love it, but all the others are nice and happy so I don't sweat it. I tried growing this way because I felt like I was wasting nutes, time, and energy changing my nutes every week. After the first grow doing this I was pleased with the results so I kept doing it.

The pure blend pro line is more for those who want to have more control thus the lower P. That's where sweet and hydroplex come in. The line is made for customizing the recipe where you don't have that with most other lines.

Yodaweed said:

I just top off with fresh RO water and Check the PH of the water, change res every sunday.

Click to expand...

This is perfect. your actually creating a small ph swing by doing it this way. the plant can cycle back through its nutrient uptake and it actually allows the plant to do more productive work this way.