To CO2 or not to CO2? That is the Question.

Piratemccall

Active Member
Yep. Just a standard candle you'd use on a dinner table. Actually get packs of 5 'emergency' candles at the bargain store for a buck or two and it was one of those.

Just sitting in my flower room the other day for about an hour tending to my girls with no burner going the top LED on the controller was blinking to show it was over 1500 so if you sleep with your plants while their lights are on they are getting lots of extra CO2. It was blinking the bottom light when I first went in.



Unless you have dead static wind conditions it won't sink at all. With my burners the CO2 is rising with the hot air and the 12" oscillating fan that runs 24/7 mixes the whole room from floor to ceiling. A larger 16" fan is bolted to the ceiling aimed to blow across the canopy to create a circular flow in the room. Only a 9x7x6.5' room and I've checked air flow all over the room and even in the corners at the back of the room the air is moving around some.

The only time you can really see CO2 sink is when dry ice sublimes and the 1,000,000ppm CO2 shows as a fog and sinks. If a fan was on it you'd just see a bit at the top of the container it was in. The rest would dissipate into the surrounding air rapidly.

I takes very little CO2 to raise the ppm to optimal levels of around 1500ppm. Other things need to be fine tuned to take advantage of it tho like higher temps, more light and higher nute levels. If any one is less than optimal then the whole chain breaks down.

If I manage to come up with an extra grand I'll get a CO2 tank and a portable A/C unit and run my flower room sealed to keep everything at peak performance. but don't really need to as I'm just growing for my own use so production isn't a huge concern. Getting into breeding CBD strains and have everything I need for decent growing now. After 40 years of growing pot the thrill is gone but it can still be fun.

I love fishing more but if I had to do it to support myself I'd grow to hate it soon enough. :)

:peace:
I understand the "fine tuning" of the other inputs, but it's not really rocket science. It's hotter, growing faster, transpiring faster, needs more water.. I'm not sure when you say increase nutes? Is that your experience? Only nute I've seen tied to enriched co2 is nitrogen, and you would actually want to decrease nitrate and increase ammonium because plant will ignore nitrate in high CO2... they go through more water, so take up more nutes in that sense, but you think the concentration of nutes should go up? Sounds toxic.
 

Piratemccall

Active Member
I understand the "fine tuning" of the other inputs, but it's not really rocket science. It's hotter, growing faster, transpiring faster, needs more water.. I'm not sure when you say increase nutes? Is that your experience? Only nute I've seen tied to enriched co2 is nitrogen, and you would actually want to decrease nitrate and increase ammonium because plant will ignore nitrate in high CO2... they go through more water, so take up more nutes in that sense, but you think the concentration of nutes should go up? Sounds toxic.
I do spend "quality time" with them and always felt it perked them up. that ambient co2 i've figured I ave too. The door to the room is open most the time,and from what I've read just me living in the apartment when other windows are closed could be putting me in good co2 space... damn, wish i had a meter.
 

Piratemccall

Active Member
The gains can be more than minimal if everything is fine tuned to get the most out of it but then you're always running on the edge of disaster.

Like you can drive your car to work and back for years with a little maintenance to keep it dependable but soup it up and race it all the time and you're rebuilding it all the time too.

Depends what your needs and goals are and that applies to most aspects of life.

:peace:
Well put, and really the reason I haven't. 95 in hand is better than 100 in the bush.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Well, sounds like you're saying you think lighting a votiv in room each day would probably have a tangible effect?
Anything that produces CO2 is going to make a difference. I have a book called, 'Gardening Indoors with CO2' that I bought probably 20 years ago. Now that I've dug it out and had a look I'm going to have a better look. Got all sorts of calculations to figure out CO2 volumes etc. Also ways to set up grow rooms and more. Mostly discusses plants other than pot as that was always kept under the table back in the day. This book was published in 1997 and it's from Van Patten Publishing. www.gardeningindoors.com.

Just checked the site and it seems to just be a page advertising the last book he did I guess titled, Gardening Indoors with Soil and Hydroponics. General plant stuff not specific to pot but plants are plants.

I made a couple of alcohol lamps I burn methyl hydrate in. Get gallon jugs of 99.9% at any hardware store for under $10. When the wicks burn down a bit the flames are much smaller but get the ppm up to 1500+ in 20 min. I was using 50-100ml/day when using it lots during the stretch. Letting the heat get up to 90 and the humidity way up too. Every couple hours I would have to go down and switch the fan's heat control down and wait a half hour before running a cycle of high CO2 again. With a portable A/C unit and CO2 tank it can all be automatic.

AlcoholLamp4CO20x.jpg

Free grow books and more here.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS. I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as some are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

:peace:
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
I understand the "fine tuning" of the other inputs, but it's not really rocket science. It's hotter, growing faster, transpiring faster, needs more water.. I'm not sure when you say increase nutes? Is that your experience? Only nute I've seen tied to enriched co2 is nitrogen, and you would actually want to decrease nitrate and increase ammonium because plant will ignore nitrate in high CO2... they go through more water, so take up more nutes in that sense, but you think the concentration of nutes should go up? Sounds toxic.
Extra CO2 causes faster growth all round so all nutrients need to be increased for balanced growth.

You need to read something pertinent to using CO2 with plants and there is tons of info on lots of growing sites including university studies if you look around.

Kind of like saying if the brain feeds on sugar then I'm feeding my kid nothing but sugar so he grows up smarter than other kids. Won't grow up at all.

N is just one, albeit important, nutrient for healthy plant growth and you have to include all the rest at equivalent levels to make it work.

:peace:
 

JSB99

Well-Known Member
Extra CO2 causes faster growth all round so all nutrients need to be increased for balanced growth.

You need to read something pertinent to using CO2 with plants and there is tons of info on lots of growing sites including university studies if you look around.

Kind of like saying if the brain feeds on sugar then I'm feeding my kid nothing but sugar so he grows up smarter than other kids. Won't grow up at all.

N is just one, albeit important, nutrient for healthy plant growth and you have to include all the rest at equivalent levels to make it work.

:peace:
I mainline sugar, and I consider myself to be a pretty fart smella :lol:
 

JSB99

Well-Known Member
Anything that produces CO2 is going to make a difference. I have a book called, 'Gardening Indoors with CO2' that I bought probably 20 years ago. Now that I've dug it out and had a look I'm going to have a better look. Got all sorts of calculations to figure out CO2 volumes etc. Also ways to set up grow rooms and more. Mostly discusses plants other than pot as that was always kept under the table back in the day. This book was published in 1997 and it's from Van Patten Publishing. www.gardeningindoors.com.

Just checked the site and it seems to just be a page advertising the last book he did I guess titled, Gardening Indoors with Soil and Hydroponics. General plant stuff not specific to pot but plants are plants.

I made a couple of alcohol lamps I burn methyl hydrate in. Get gallon jugs of 99.9% at any hardware store for under $10. When the wicks burn down a bit the flames are much smaller but get the ppm up to 1500+ in 20 min. I was using 50-100ml/day when using it lots during the stretch. Letting the heat get up to 90 and the humidity way up too. Every couple hours I would have to go down and switch the fan's heat control down and wait a half hour before running a cycle of high CO2 again. With a portable A/C unit and CO2 tank it can all be automatic.

View attachment 4138928

Free grow books and more here.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS. I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as some are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

:peace:
Cool!
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
careful with the concept that co2 automatically equals higher EC requirements

feed your plants higher EC if they ask for more food with signs of deficiency or by tracking your reservoir changes

but don't just give them more all a sudden cuz you added co2

plants may eat more with co2 supplementation but that doesn't necessarily = the need for higher EC

if the volume of water your plants are taking up increases due to its increased growth rate as a result from co2... the increase solution uptake would essentially be providing the extra food without the need to increase the EC

analogy

you may normally eat a 6oz portion of chicken 3x a day! but now your eating 5 meals a day instead of 3 so
you've increased your calories but, your still eating 6 oz portions
 

Piratemccall

Active Member
Extra CO2 causes faster growth all round so all nutrients need to be increased for balanced growth.

You need to read something pertinent to using CO2 with plants and there is tons of info on lots of growing sites including university studies if you look around.

Kind of like saying if the brain feeds on sugar then I'm feeding my kid nothing but sugar so he grows up smarter than other kids. Won't grow up at all.

N is just one, albeit important, nutrient for healthy plant growth and you have to include all the rest at equivalent levels to make it work.

:peace:
I mean... I'd say I've read quite a bit on co2... especially for a guy who doesn't use it :)
But, running theme of thread: plants like co2, important to understand.

I'm no expert, but almost everything I've said in this thread was based in some academic study I've read. That's why I asked you if you know of some other nutrient besides nitrogen that is proven to need to be more concentrated? Just because what I've read the only nute shown to have any added depletion due to co2 enrichment is N., for specific reasons, not just because "they need more"

The only two reason's I've seen for increasing N are 1. high co2 increases Mycorrhizal Fungi and raises their own consumption of ammonium nitrate (NH4+) raising competition between host plant and mycorrhizal. and 2. plant intake of nitrate nitrogen (NO3-) drops 25-20% and builds up in soil. So, when running co2, ammonium nitrogen should be increased and nitrate lowered for those reasons. I was asking if you knew of any other specific effect on any other mineral, because I read scholarly articles and that's the only one I'm aware of. Not that there isn't, but N is the only one I'm aware of. I'm Suggesting if you have anecdotal evidence to the contrary, are you sure it wasn't just the need for more nitrogen?

As to increased nutrients as a whole, that takes place by the plant processing more water. co2 + h20 + light = glucose and oxygen. So, raise co2, raise water, raise light, faster growth. The increase in minerals to keep pace comes from the increase in water. If you concentrated the nutes, now it's using more water AND at a higher concentration. Toxic.
 

Piratemccall

Active Member
Anything that produces CO2 is going to make a difference. I have a book called, 'Gardening Indoors with CO2' that I bought probably 20 years ago. Now that I've dug it out and had a look I'm going to have a better look. Got all sorts of calculations to figure out CO2 volumes etc. Also ways to set up grow rooms and more. Mostly discusses plants other than pot as that was always kept under the table back in the day. This book was published in 1997 and it's from Van Patten Publishing. www.gardeningindoors.com.

Just checked the site and it seems to just be a page advertising the last book he did I guess titled, Gardening Indoors with Soil and Hydroponics. General plant stuff not specific to pot but plants are plants.

I made a couple of alcohol lamps I burn methyl hydrate in. Get gallon jugs of 99.9% at any hardware store for under $10. When the wicks burn down a bit the flames are much smaller but get the ppm up to 1500+ in 20 min. I was using 50-100ml/day when using it lots during the stretch. Letting the heat get up to 90 and the humidity way up too. Every couple hours I would have to go down and switch the fan's heat control down and wait a half hour before running a cycle of high CO2 again. With a portable A/C unit and CO2 tank it can all be automatic.

View attachment 4138928

Free grow books and more here.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS. I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as some are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

:peace:
Nice! Man, I'm just not in love with open flame in room, but supercool.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
As to increased nutrients as a whole, that takes place by the plant processing more water. co2 + h20 + light = glucose and oxygen. So, raise co2, raise water, raise light, faster growth. The increase in minerals to keep pace comes from the increase in water. If you concentrated the nutes, now it's using more water AND at a higher concentration. Toxic.
I don't really OD the plants on nutes but always give a good dose at the flip which is when I fire up the burners until the stretch is over. My low RH causes me more problems but when I'm running the CO2 I'm letting my heat and RH go way up compared to the usual so the plants are using less water than normal.

Some of the plants got burn before the flip when the RH was 20-30% all the time and needed water a lot more. Getting that VPD right is a bitch sometimes and I need to come up with a better humidification strategy. They got their last major feeding a few days ago and can coast to the finish line now that they are 3 days into week 5.

:peace:
 

Piratemccall

Active Member
Anything that produces CO2 is going to make a difference. I have a book called, 'Gardening Indoors with CO2' that I bought probably 20 years ago. Now that I've dug it out and had a look I'm going to have a better look. Got all sorts of calculations to figure out CO2 volumes etc. Also ways to set up grow rooms and more. Mostly discusses plants other than pot as that was always kept under the table back in the day. This book was published in 1997 and it's from Van Patten Publishing. www.gardeningindoors.com.

Just checked the site and it seems to just be a page advertising the last book he did I guess titled, Gardening Indoors with Soil and Hydroponics. General plant stuff not specific to pot but plants are plants.

I made a couple of alcohol lamps I burn methyl hydrate in. Get gallon jugs of 99.9% at any hardware store for under $10. When the wicks burn down a bit the flames are much smaller but get the ppm up to 1500+ in 20 min. I was using 50-100ml/day when using it lots during the stretch. Letting the heat get up to 90 and the humidity way up too. Every couple hours I would have to go down and switch the fan's heat control down and wait a half hour before running a cycle of high CO2 again. With a portable A/C unit and CO2 tank it can all be automatic.

View attachment 4138928

Free grow books and more here.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS. I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as some are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

:peace:
Yo man, check it out...

Here's an article saying one parrafin wax candle creates 13 lumens and 11grams of co2 per hour :) :) :)

Funny thing is the article is about how bad that is for the environment... But that's not our environment !!! What garden wouldn't benefit from an extra 13 lumens and 11 grams of co2 per hour?!?! :P

So, let's do the math:

adding 4 parrafin candles to your light regimentm we'll start just looking at flower:

4 candles = 44 g of co2 per hour. 44X12 = 492 g of co2 per 12 hour day... that's over a lb of co2 per 12 hour day! The equivalent of emptying a 20lb co2 tank every 18 days! (plus a bonus 44 lumens:P)

for veg, 44 x 18 = over 1.5 lbs of co2 per day

https://enochthered.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/earth-hour-candles-and-carbon/
 
Last edited:

Piratemccall

Active Member
Here's an article saying one parrafin wax candle creates 13 lumens and 11grams of co2 per hour :) :):)

Funny thing is the article is about how bad that is for the environment... But that's not our environment !!! What garden wouldn't benefit from an extra 13 lumens and 11 grams of co2 per hour?!?! :P

So, let's do the math:

adding 4 parrafin candles to your light regimentm we'll start just looking at flower:

4 candles = 44 g of co2 per hour. 44X12 = 492 g of co2 per 12 hour day... that's over a lb of co2 per 12 hour day! The equivalent of emptying a 20lb co2 tank every 18 days! (plus a bonus 44 lumens:P)

for veg, 44 x 18 = over 1.5 lbs of co2 per day

https://enochthered.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/earth-hour-candles-and-carbon/
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Yo man, check it out...

Here's an article saying one parrafin wax candle creates 13 lumens and 11grams of co2 per hour :) :) :)

Funny thing is the article is about how bad that is for the environment... But that's not our environment !!! What garden wouldn't benefit from an extra 13 lumens and 11 grams of co2 per hour?!?! :P

So, let's do the math:

adding 4 parrafin candles to your light regimentm we'll start just looking at flower:

4 candles = 44 g of co2 per hour. 44X12 = 492 g of co2 per 12 hour day... that's over a lb of co2 per 12 hour day! The equivalent of emptying a 20lb co2 tank every 18 days! (plus a bonus 44 lumens:P)

for veg, 44 x 18 = over 1.5 lbs of co2 per day

https://enochthered.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/earth-hour-candles-and-carbon/
Methyl hydrate burns a lot cleaner than paraffin tho. Odorless too. Sill doesn't take much to get the ppms up no matter what you use. Keep a couple bunnies in the grow room in a cage and get enough I bet and really good fertilizer too!

:peace:
 

Piratemccall

Active Member
Methyl hydrate burns a lot cleaner than paraffin tho. Odorless too. Sill doesn't take much to get the ppms up no matter what you use. Keep a couple bunnies in the grow room in a cage and get enough I bet and really good fertilizer too!

:peace:
Yeah, I thought about getting a hamster, wonder how much co2 it'd be. I have a snake, but their respiration is so slow, and he looks good in the livingroom.. but, when we say "burn cleaner", basically we're just saying "less co2" right? figure more co2 the better in this application.
 
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