tired of adjusting cfl lights. led time

Po boy · Dec 17, 2014

i'm switching to led lights for veg period only. i know i can do it effectively with cfl's but i'm damn tired the adjusting lights.
would a 200 watt led be sufficient for three plants? also, is a 300 watt led that much brighter than a 200? i've been looking a Apollo units. any thoughts?

az2000 · Dec 17, 2014

What size space are you growing in? How much vertical space? How many CFL watts do you run now?

Apollo is one of many Chinese lights made with Epi LEDs. They're not very energy efficient. You need about 40-50 w/sq ft (50% more than efficient LEDs), they'll generate a lot of heat. Won't last long and you'll have trouble getting warranty service.

Depending on your space, you can get some suggestions.

FrozenChozen · Dec 18, 2014

I'm having great luck with screw in led cobs.... even popped a few cobs out and repurposed 'em.... Its worth it IMO to get a few of the screw ins if you cant afford a good panel....

az2000 · Dec 18, 2014

FrozenChozen said:
I'm having great luck with screw in led cobs.... even popped a few cobs out and repurposed 'em.... Its worth it IMO to get a few of the screw ins if you cant afford a good panel....

Do you have a link to the screw-in COB you're using? How powerful? How distant do you have to keep it from the plant?

THE KONASSURE · Dec 18, 2014

you can buy 50w cob leds with an e27 fitting for not a lot of money they work well for veg also 38w smd leds work well too

az2000 · Dec 18, 2014

THE KONASSURE said:
you can buy 50w cob leds with an e27 fitting for not a lot of money they work well for veg also 38w smd leds work well too

I'd like a link to whatever is being recommended, at least an example. The 2-3 I looked at in the past were down around 80 LPW. That was less than T5HO.

The low-watt screw-in lightbulbs are up around 95 to 110 LPW, no cooling fans (which is a plus for me). I didn't think there were any similar screw-in COBS in this range (or higher).

FrozenChozen · Dec 18, 2014

az2000 said:
Do you have a link to the screw-in COB you're using? How powerful? How distant do you have to keep it from the plant?

I use
>>>THESE<<< in 3000k and get 'em a little bit cheaper than $17 a piece....
I pull off the diffuser and keep em about 12" away.... Great penetration, Great growth! Here's a link > CFL BUDGET LED ALTERNATIVE
Recently, I have gutted a Chinese panel and am driving the Feit cobs with drivers that I pulled from it (36.1v @400ma).... That makes 'em almost 4 times as bright as they are out of the box..... I recommend attaching them to "real" heat sinks if you do this, though not required the cpu heat sinks help keep them at optimal temperature...

Po boy · Dec 18, 2014

az2000 said:
What size space are you growing in? How much vertical space? How many CFL watts do you run now?

Apollo is one of many Chinese lights made with Epi LEDs. They're not very energy efficient. You need about 40-50 w/sq ft (50% more than efficient LEDs), they'll generate a lot of heat. Won't last long and you'll have trouble getting warranty service.

Depending on your space, you can get some suggestions.

thanks for the info about the lights. i grow my plant on the floor indoors at night and during inclement weather. otherwise, they're outside. after flowering begins, they stay outside.
i thinking a light that can handle 3 plants i'll be mainlining for the veg stage is all i need.
what is COB and LPW?

az2000 · Dec 18, 2014

FrozenChozen said:
I use
>>>THESE<<< in 3000k and get 'em a little bit cheaper than $17 a piece....

That page says 9.5w & 450 lumens. That's only 47 LPW. CFLs are in the 60s. Cree PAR38 (Home Depot) spot or flood is 84 LPW. The A19 lightbulb replacement is low 90s with the gummy rubber film removed removed from the translucent globe. SMD 5730 corncob lightbulbs are 105'ish (clear plastic globe).

Those last two are omni directional. I know if they were measured with a reflector installed lumens would be lower. (I.e., the BR30 is 72 LPW). But still, 47 LPW seems very low for a COB which is directional. Like a reflected CFL.

Po boy said:
what is COB and LPW?

"Chip on board" and "lumens per watt." COBs appear to be the next generation. Higher LPW, lower labor costs to assemble because it's one chip with dozens of diodes on it. Not individual diodes mounted on a large white backboard. (Downside to me is that it's more light from a smaller point. I lean towards less light from more sources. They're probably great for large grow operations. For a handful of plants like I do, I like having the lights closer, spread around the plant, more coverage and diffusion.).

FrozenChozen · Dec 18, 2014

az2000 said:
That page says 9.5w & 450 lumens. That's only 47 LPW. CFLs are in the 60s. Cree PAR38 (Home Depot) spot or flood is 84 LPW. The A19 lightbulb replacement is low 90s with the gummy rubber film removed removed from the translucent globe. SMD 5730 corncob lightbulbs are 105'ish (clear plastic globe).
Those last two are omni directional. I know if they were measured with a reflector installed lumens would be lower. (I.e., the BR30 is 72 LPW). But still, 47 LPW seems very low for a COB which is directional. Like a reflected CFL.

That's part of the reason I went for new drivers.... Out of the box they go at about 100ma, and after I modify 'em they run at slightly over 400ma.... I don't have a light meter but I'd imagine that after market, they push at least in the 90's LPW wise.... I have no complaints! Right now 2 Cobs are out producing 6 cfls 3-42 watt 5600k and 3-26 watt 2600k in veg... I believe that they'd out perform cfls in flower too.
on a side note, I think that they are so underpowered because they are supposedly meant to last 20+ years....

THE KONASSURE · Dec 19, 2014

az2000 said:
I'd like a link to whatever is being recommended, at least an example. The 2-3 I looked at in the past were down around 80 LPW. That was less than T5HO.

The low-watt screw-in lightbulbs are up around 95 to 110 LPW, no cooling fans (which is a plus for me). I didn't think there were any similar screw-in COBS in this range (or higher).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Powe...94?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item4d19de9d12

£100 for 5 of the 50`s all you have to do is take the lens off I`d go warm white for flower and cool for veg

and for veg or lower power I like these (36w) in the uk I can get 4 for around £20 to 25 the cobs cost more then the cob`s they also do 54w`ish red/blue leds with and e27

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B22-E27-S...88?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item23436b9988

red and blue`s
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E27-54W-1...Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item3ceb26f92a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/54W-18x3W...Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item35dab58334

think you can get more powerful ones too

or you can pick up 30w and 70w mh and cmh lights cheap now days old shop lights that no one wants just use fresh blubs and they do nice too.

az2000 · Dec 19, 2014

THE KONASSURE said:
and for veg or lower power I like these (36w) in the uk I can get 4 for around £20 to 25 the cobs cost more then the cob`s they also do 54w`ish red/blue leds with and e27

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B22-E27-S...88?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item23436b9988

Thanks for the links. Of all the links, that one looks the most promising. 100 LPW, presumably 110-115 with the plastic diffusion dome removed.

The others didn't look that exciting to me. The first didn't say what LEDs it uses, and came out to 90 LPW which is about the same as Cree and SMD 5730 "corncob" lightbulbs.

The red/blue lightbulbs didn't grab me, being epi-whatever and not mentioning lumens. (Not sure lumens mean much with monochromatic colors like that. But, not sure those are an efficient way to deliver light compared to higher-quality white LEDs. I mean, I'd expect these to be like the red/blue Chinese fixtures. Not so great.

95'ZR1 · Dec 19, 2014

Why not just buy 4 cxa1304 and a 600 - 700 ma driver to run all 4. $7 for the leds $8 for the driver. And it's more efficient and a better spectrum then anything previous listed.

in veg you only need a max of 10w per sq/ft with a good quality led.

az2000 · Dec 20, 2014

95'ZR1 said:
Why not just buy 4 cxa1304 and a 600 - 700 ma driver to run all 4. $7 for the leds $8 for the driver. And it's more efficient and a better spectrum then anything previous listed.

in veg you only need a max of 10w per sq/ft with a good quality led.

How hot does CXA1304 run? There must be more to it than connecting a driver. (Heatsink requirement?). Is there a thread showing how?

I haven't been attracted to the higher output COB projects. A DIY to produce something of similar heat as the Cree "lightbulbs" but more lm/w might interest me.

THE KONASSURE · Dec 20, 2014

I can say the ones you liked are good I
have 2 of the 38w ones running right now and you can also get them in a b22 fitting that`s the main reason why I got them

The lens comes off easy and the cool blue ones are doing some nice veg work they have a big heatsink on them and a small fan that`s being used on the plants seems more then enough to also keep the led cool

Very easy to aim too not much wasted light when compared to cfl`s

LPW is not the best way to look at it COB`s wont get the LPW that 1w leds will no way but you can get a much more powerful chip in less space then 1w leds can, a 50w cob is 25% to 60% smaller then a 38w smd or 1w or 3w led light is

even if your talking 100LPW vs 80LPW if you can only get 100w of the SMD`s in an area but 300w of the cob`s what one will yield more ?

Plus the cobs get better light intensity they pentrate deeper the smd`s and 1w`s are great for top bud or side lighting or vegging but they will not give you more then 6 to 12 inches of nice bud, cobs can give you a good 3 foot maybe more depends on the chips and driver people out there running chips over 100w each now.

Ace Yonder · Dec 20, 2014

az2000 said:
I'd like a link to whatever is being recommended, at least an example. The 2-3 I looked at in the past were down around 80 LPW. That was less than T5HO.

The low-watt screw-in lightbulbs are up around 95 to 110 LPW, no cooling fans (which is a plus for me). I didn't think there were any similar screw-in COBS in this range (or higher).

Found a slight variation of the "Cree" screw in corn style bulbs using 3014 SMD instead of 5730s, they claim a substantially higher lumen per watt, but I know that the 3014s have much lower intensity so it's still probably a trade off. But still, 120-150 l/w is impressive, if they're not lying.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pcs...ulb-AC110V-220V-Ultra-Bright/32228297366.html

95'ZR1 · Dec 20, 2014

Lumens do not mean everything.

look at a hps light it has a ton of lumen output but in the wrong spectrum which is why 250-300w of good leds can outgrow a 600whps. You really need to stop looking at l/w. A green led might put out 250lm/w are you going to use that one?

it is all about spectrum. This is the exact reason many of us use the 3070 or 3590 but then supplement with a few 450-480 and 630-670nm leds. I grew the same exact plant twice one with 52watts of 3000k cxa3070 the other with 52w of 3000k 3070 and added 15w of 670nm and 5wof 630 and the one with ssupplement lighting was a much better yeild. And now I'm using 730nm for 8min at lights out and am getting the same yield but taking roughly 10days off my flower time.

Imo with leds it's all about spectrum.

az2000 · Dec 20, 2014

Ace Yonder said:
Found a slight variation of the "Cree" screw in corn style bulbs using 3014 SMD instead of 5730s, they claim a substantially higher lumen per watt, but I know that the 3014s have much lower intensity so it's still probably a trade off. But still, 120-150 l/w is impressive, if they're not lying.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pcs...ulb-AC110V-220V-Ultra-Bright/32228297366.html

Maybe @mauricemm can give his opinion. He turned me onto the SMD 5730 corncob lightbulbs. I don't see much info about SMD 3014 except that it's 0.01w while 5730 is 0.5w. I agree the 100-120 lm/w sounds good.

95'ZR1 said:
Lumens do not mean everything.

In most cases it's all we have to go on. Have you seen the $40 PublicLabs DIY spectrometer? (<<link). I'm wondering if there's a way we could use a standard reference point so we could use one to measure umoles or something more meaningful than lumens/lux. I have one and play with it occasionally. It's calibrated using a CFL, looking for the spectral spike for mercury. They claim a 5nm accuracy. The "spectral workbench" software has the ability to save/export data. I haven't looked at the data it produces, but wonder if it could be processed in a way to normalize everyone's measurements using info from their own reference point. For example, the sun at noon? Using that measurement the device's sensitivity would be known.

95'ZR1 said:
I grew the same exact plant twice one with 52watts of 3000k cxa3070 the other with 52w of 3000k 3070 and added 15w of 670nm and 5wof 630 and the one with ssupplement lighting was a much better yeild.

Yeah, but you added almost 50% more light. It's unclear if more lumens did the job, or more efficient targeting of spectrum. It would be more convincing if you reduced the 3000 white by the amount of monochromatic red/blue watts you add. (Which gets back to how we don't have a lot to compare such things. Just comparing cool or warm whites by lumens per watt is about as good as it gets unless we can devise a standard way to measure spectrum power distribution.).

95'ZR1 · Dec 20, 2014

I didn't increase the lumen output by 50% it was 52w of white roughly 8000 lumens then roughly 600 lumens of 670nm and 200 lumens of 630 mm so about 10% more light and it was more then a 10% in weight and even more so in density.

With a good led you only need 10w per sq/ft in veg at the most and 25-30w per sq/ft in flower.

az2000 · Dec 20, 2014

52w plus 20w. That would be significant if you added white instead of monochromatic. I added 38w of white to a 85w to UFO and increased yield substantially.

Not trying to say you're wrong that targeted red/blue is more beneficial than more white. Just saying adding watts makes it impossible to know if it was the watts or the targeted spectrum.

I agree with you about what is ideal w/sq ft.

Any thoughts about that PublicLabs DIY spectrometer? It would be huge if we could come up with a way to deal with light quality in a valid manner (without spending $500 on a PAR meter.).

tired of adjusting cfl lights. led time

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