Thinking about a permanent DIY panel for my 4x4 tent... input wanted!

Beefbisquit · Jun 26, 2013

Alrighty, I'm contemplating designing a new panel.

I want to be able to cover the entire 4x4 area, and I want one large panel to do it with. I'm thinking 30x30 of finned aluminium for a heat sink. The reason I want a large heatsink is because I'm really considering using very high degree lenses and backing the light off much further than most panels. Instead of having generous overlap from the diodes to create more intense light, I'm thinking of using very focused light to get the absolute maximum amount of light to the bottom of the plants. That's been my biggest peeve from LED; the lack of penetration.

Now, I already know I want to do a Neutral white/red (620-630nm) spectrum, but deciding on diodes is where I'm 'stuck'. Originally I was thinking 10W Cree's for the NW, and driving them to 7-8W each, as I'm not nearly as concerned with efficiency as I am with raw power going to my ladies.

The reds I'm really not sure of, I'd like to save some money and preferably use 3-5W diodes, again with low degree (30-40 degree) lenses.

I want to get 400-500umoles to the base of the plants.... ambitious.... but I think doable!

Chronikool · Jun 26, 2013

Wow....this is going to be a beastly heatsink!

So orginally you were thinking 10w crees...what are you thinking now? What about warm whites instead...i personally think they would have enough blue in them.

So Cree XP-Es for the reds?

Beefbisquit · Jun 26, 2013

I'd like to find some 15-20W Neutral White LED's... and run them in a setup similar to this.... Excuse my shitty paint skills!

And for red's I'd like to have true 5W pull from the diodes, so I'd really be looking for 7-10W red diodes, me thinks!

I don't think I'd need many LED's if the beam angle was very low.... as long as I don't get the panel too close to the ladies!

GreenSanta · Jun 26, 2013

I see you really dont want any popcorn buds anymore!! hehe don't you make hash or cookies or tinctures? that's what I do with the popcorn, I treat it like trim.

FYI , you could try to copy the spectrum in the AF-600, like copying the whole panel except making it 3x3 instead of 25''x25'' ... it would run cooler, better footprint and I am certain similar or better results.

Just to show you here is an example of how dense the lower buds get with my AF600.

lol 4 hard nugs at the very bottom of the plant.

Beefbisquit · Jun 26, 2013

GreenSanta said:
I see you really dont want any popcorn buds anymore!! hehe don't you make hash or cookies or tinctures? that's what I do with the popcorn, I treat it like trim.

FYI , you could try to copy the spectrum in the AF-600, like copying the whole panel except making it 3x3 instead of 25''x25'' ... it would run cooler, better footprint and I am certain similar or better results.

Just to show you here is an example of how dense the lower buds get with my AF600.
View attachment 2715137 View attachment 2715138
lol 4 hard nugs at the very bottom of the plant.

I like that... I like that a lot.

The AF-600 has 80 degree lenses, no? I'd like to have more focused light, but less LED's, on a bigger frame.

And you are bang on, my man - I hate popcorn buds. I make oil, tinctures, and butter too but I'd rather have rock hard nugs at the bottom to turn into 'XYZ' than popcorn at the bottom to turn into 'XYZ'....

I don't want to grow small plants, but I also don't want to have penetration issues... god dammit I'm hard to please!

pepperdust · Jun 26, 2013

where you sourcing the sink? can I ask

I think it's un-wise to pull the panel, rather then make the panel longer / less degree lens. you lose light pulling it up, when you could lower it, with wider lens'.

whites, you might go with luxeon K or cree CXA series LED. check them out. unless you had another idea. I'm also not sold to use NW, when I feel a mix of WW would do better, if not all WW ( I haven't tested though )

no 660? only 620-630nm ? only red's I know with that wattage here

brotherjericho · Jun 26, 2013

With 30 deg lens and 30x30, how will you cover 48x48?

Beefbisquit · Jun 26, 2013

brotherjericho said:
With 30 deg lens and 30x30, how will you cover 48x48?

30x30 was an approximation, I can adjust that based on new information. I Thought that might be a good starting point for 30-40 degree lenses?

At 30-36" above the canopy, the rough estimation in my head allowed for appox 48x48" @ canopy level.

I must admit, I haven't actually done any calculations regarding the angle and distance, I'm throwing out ballpark figures and asking for input, so keep it coming!

Later on, when I'm not 2 bottles of wine under, I'll actually do some number crunching.

Scotch089 · Jun 26, 2013

Whatre you sippin on braheim? Roscato and Malvasia is where its at... but your up north no? Im a red kind a guy..

This is SUPER amitious to say the least. and hella interesting.... to say the least. Good luck to you beef!

Maybe Pepper is onto somethin... super wide lens on high wattage emitters? Give you your spread... your penetration... without the bleaching? Shake n bake baby!

brotherjericho · Jun 27, 2013

Fyi, 30 degree will get to 48" on a 30" panel, at 36" above the canopy. Move it closer, you will start to lose it. I personally wouldn't want all of those laser beams!

Beefbisquit · Jun 27, 2013

brotherjericho said:
Fyi, 30 degree will get to 48" on a 30" panel, at 36" above the canopy. Move it closer, you will start to lose it. I personally wouldn't want all of those laser beams!

Now we're talkin! I just need to figure out how far away I can set the light and still hit 48" of coverage!

hyroot · Jun 27, 2013

Why not use 60 degree? Your af240 used 80 degree.

Next month I'm going to add a bunch of those home depot Crees for side lighting. Then apache is coming out with led tubes using 1w Crees. Maybe you should consider either one for side lighting.

atb · Jun 27, 2013

I wouldn't recommend a heatsink of that size. What I would rather do is design a sort of like a rail system for smaller heatsinks. Each heatsink will have its own 12-20 3w LED driver as well as a 120-140mm fan (there is some really silent 2000rpm fans like 16dB if you're building a silent system $10-15 per fan, if not just get a cheaper 3000rpm+ fan $5). It would be easier to cool it like this plus you can easily make it modular.

Beefbisquit · Jun 27, 2013

atb said:
I wouldn't recommend a heatsink of that size. What I would rather do is design a sort of like a rail system for smaller heatsinks. Each heatsink will have its own 12-20 3w LED driver as well as a 120-140mm fan (there is some really silent 2000rpm fans like 16dB if you're building a silent system $10-15 per fan, if not just get a cheaper 3000rpm+ fan $5). It would be easier to cool it like this plus you can easily make it modular.

Thanks for the input my man! Always want to hear different views!

I have a line on some 135cfm 120mm fans. I don't care about noise, nothing is louder than my 265cfm Inline fan.

I'm not really looking for modular, I've seen the Vipar setup with the rails and smaller panels, but that's not what I'm looking to do.

I'm not concerned with cost either. I have no problem shelling out a few hundred dollars when the time comes for the badest, heatsink I can get. I'm going to try to sourcea copper/aluminium heatsink. Prob cost an arm and a leg, but copper conducts heat much better than aluminum.

Hyroot; I don't think 60 degrees will give me the juice I want at the bottom of my tent. My AF-240 does a pretty damn good job and covering about 40x40, but the penetration isn't as good as I want it to be. (Probably part of the reason why EH switched the diodes/lenses/spectrum).

I could beat the penetration problem with side lighting (that I already own, it's nice owning 7 LED panels....

) but I really just want to have one, powerful panel, that covers 4x4, from top to bottom, as well as, if not better than, a 1000W HPS.

I'm thinking of adding two more rows of Warm White 10W diodes in between each row of red diodes on my drawing. That would give me 10 more 10W diodes, or about another 70-80W.

nevergoodenuf · Jun 27, 2013

Beefbisquit- Check out my setup https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/658126-magnum-plus2-true-4x4-foot.html. I always had the similar complaints. I haven't updated it lately, but my tallest (36") is only 5" off the top. I do wish I could get 4 more pods, but then I would have to make another fixture. If you build as a perpetual, you can build one side hotter. So far I'm very happy with mine.

GreenSanta · Jun 27, 2013

Beefbisquit said:
Thanks for the input my man! Always want to hear different views!

I have a line on some 135cfm 120mm fans. I don't care about noise, nothing is louder than my 265cfm Inline fan.

I'm not really looking for modular, I've seen the Vipar setup with the rails and smaller panels, but that's not what I'm looking to do.

I'm not concerned with cost either. I have no problem shelling out a few hundred dollars when the time comes for the badest, heatsink I can get. I'm going to try to sourcea copper/aluminium heatsink. Prob cost an arm and a leg, but copper conducts heat much better than aluminum.

Hyroot; I don't think 60 degrees will give me the juice I want at the bottom of my tent. My AF-240 does a pretty damn good job and covering about 40x40, but the penetration isn't as good as I want it to be. (Probably part of the reason why EH switched the diodes/lenses/spectrum).

I could beat the penetration problem with side lighting (that I already own, it's nice owning 7 LED panels.... ) but I really just want to have one, powerful panel, that covers 4x4, from top to bottom, as well as, if not better than, a 1000W HPS.

I'm thinking of adding two more rows of Warm White 10W diodes in between each row of red diodes on my drawing. That would give me 10 more 10W diodes, or about another 70-80W.

Have you ever thought of building a room that would be ''panels''? I thought of it :eyesmoke:

will I ever do it? maybe, no time soon though! lol but What I was thinking at the time was 1watters LED all around on each wall of the 4x4 so that the plants can literally grow and touch the walls, and 3 watters up above(because that's all i ever used... if the 10 watters end up being more efficient I guess it would be 10 watters but I think 3 watters are going to be the most efficient diodes for growing...) on the ceiling ...I dont know maybe total 800-1200 watts! YOU CAN DO IT BEEF, SHOW US ALL THAT WOULD BE WICKED!!

Beefbisquit · Jun 27, 2013

GreenSanta said:
Have you ever thought of building a room that would be ''panels''? I thought of it will I ever do it? maybe, no time soon though! lol but What I was thinking at the time was 1watters LED all around on each wall of the 4x4 so that the plants can literally grow and touch the walls, and 3 watters up above(because that's all i ever used... if the 10 watters end up being more efficient I guess it would be 10 watters but I think 3 watters are going to be the most efficient diodes for growing...) on the ceiling ...I dont know maybe total 800-1200 watts! YOU CAN DO IT BEEF, SHOW US ALL THAT WOULD BE WICKED!!

Sweet love of Jesus....

I have just under 1000W in my 4x4 now, so 700-800W seems reasonable.

nevergoodenuf · Jun 27, 2013

Instead of the walls wire up 4 4'x4' x1" foam insulation board. I use 3 2'x4' pieces as removable walls. They stand up straight in the groove of the hydro tray. Easily removed for watering, pictures, etc. and it doesn't stop the drainage. Two 4x8 sheets is around $20. Removable side lighting :bigjoint:

.

Beefbisquit · Jun 27, 2013

nevergoodenuf said:
Instead of the walls wire up 4 4'x4' x1" foam insulation board. I use 3 2'x4' pieces as removable walls. They stand up straight in the groove of the hydro tray. Easily removed for watering, pictures, etc. and it doesn't stop the drainage. Two 4x8 sheets is around $20. Removable side lighting.

I have a mylar tent, so it's about 98% reflective.

Here's a pic of my current setup, I'm running 4 panels - One 439W up top, two 115W panels, and a 165W panel on the sides.

I only have 2 panels on in this pic

Beefbisquit · Jun 27, 2013

Here's some newer pics!

Thinking about a permanent DIY panel for my 4x4 tent... input wanted!

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