There is no pipeline, schools ARE Prisons

Rob Roy · Dec 5, 2015

ChesusRice said:
Anslinger wanted to legalize pot like me?

You don't want to legalize it (as in freeing the weed) you want to legislatively control what others are "allowed to do" . You have proposed legislation which would penalize peaceful interactions among people. That is the definition of a prohibitionist.

You stated sales should be illegal.

You are an interventionist prohibitionist, not as rabid as Harry Anslinger, but you still think at least some forms of prohibition are a good idea. You are wrong.

Why do you think controlling other peaceful people is ANY of your business, Prohibitionist?

Rob Roy · Dec 5, 2015

ChesusRice said:
Can a child of 13 consent to sex with an adult?
So far your answer has been yes.
Why do you advocate for fucking kids?

I don't.

As a "kid" of 13 (hung like a horse then though) I advocated getting me some 18 year old poon, but had to settle for her younger sister.

So, at 13, yes, I would have consented to having sex with an "adult" of 18. How old were you when you stopped whacking off to the ladies underwear section in the sears catalog and finally got laid? 23? 27? 32? How old?

Fogdog · Dec 5, 2015

Rob Roy said:
I don't.

As a "kid" of 13 (hung like a horse then though) I advocated getting me some 18 year old poon, but had to settle for her younger sister.

So, at 13, yes, I would have consented to having sex with an "adult" of 18. How old were you when you stopped whacking off to the ladies underwear section in the sears catalog and finally got laid? 23? 27? 32? How old?

About that narcissist label that I hung on you. Well here it is again. The real deal doesn't need to repeat endlessly how endowed, intelligent, handsome they are. Fakes and posers on the other hand do. Endless praise of yourself and your lack of empathy for others are flags for the narcissistic personality trait. Its not necessarily a bad thing but the worst psychopaths such as child abusers, serial murderers, rapists, hardened criminals are narcissists. Not saying you are one of them but you have something in common with them.

Rob Roy said:
No, it would be a fact even without the form I used. Government (as it presently exists) is a monopoly on violence in a given geographical area.

Can you refute that? No, you can't, because it IS a fact.

Of course I can refute this. Check the news for what happened a few days ago. Lots of violence out there is perpetrated by people just like you. Government isn't the only source of violence here or any where else. What a stupid thing to say.

Rob Roy said:
Yes, you do tell others how to live. You vote don't you? Carried out to the logical end, your argument about "not telling others what to to do" fails.

I vote to say what I want to have happen, whether it be better funding for schools, extending roads, zoning or who I choose to be president of the US. I'm not telling anybody how to live, that's your bag. Your "logical end" regarding my vote is not logical.

Ok Captain Blowhard, I'll repeat what I've said before:

I, along with others point out how your ideas would not work due many holes in your fairly weak philosophy, such as it would roll back equal rights protection to minorities, would give free license for sexual predators, would open the floodgates to polluters, would fail in anything other than a sparsely populated rural community of related people, would eventually end in monopoly by the powerful, would devolve socially into a clan driven violent society like those found in Somalia and Afghanistan and you just come back with the same old stuff. So, I'm just saying that what I've learned of your lifestyle is very unappealing to me and most others. It's indistinguishable from poverty. You are happy, and that's fine. But no thanks.

Refute any of this if you like. Thus far, you haven't addressed any of it.

Oh, and one more thing that you didn't address when you hurt your brain trying to do logic: if Jared Foyle had done his dirty in your perfect world, what would be the non-coercive response? You can't answer this because your world is an incomplete fantasy.

ChesusRice · Dec 5, 2015

All the victims in Fogles case consented as well.
Rob Roy thinks that's. Ok

Fogdog · Dec 5, 2015

ChesusRice said:
All the victims in Fogles case consented as well.
Rob Roy thinks that's. Ok

I wonder if he would think so if one of Jared's victims were his 12 year old child. He'd probably say it was OK, though I'm just guessing.

Rob Roy · Dec 5, 2015

Fogdog said:
Uh-Oh, you are going to be accused of supporting evil coercive forces.

@Rob Roy, if Jared had done his dirty in your perfect world, what would be the non-coercive response?

Okay, I can see you're confused on some terms.

When I use the term coercion, it is often applied to a situation where there is an "or else" involved. Meaning one party is not free to disengage and/or another party is involving them in something without their consent. That's the business model of a coercion based government, but I digress.

If a person initiates aggression, it is not coercive for the other person to defend themselves.

So, if Jared the subway douche diddled somebody he shouldn't have, without their consent, that person (the victim) or a person on the victims behalf has a right to defend themself and / or be restituted, which is not based in coercion, it is based in a defensive action, which is morally permissible.

Also I don't have a perfect world, but the world I propose is better than the one you do, because it doesn't have coercion as an accepted systemic norm of the group you call your leaders.

Rob Roy · Dec 5, 2015

ChesusRice said:
All the victims in Fogles case consented as well.
Rob Roy thinks that's. Ok

No, I don't douche bag.

I think for consent to exist, they consenting party must be ABLE to consent. For instance when you diddled farm animals as a young fellow, I doubt the chickens were capable of consenting and if they were I suspect they wouldn't have.

Rob Roy · Dec 5, 2015

Fogdog said:
About that narcissist label that I hung on you. Well here it is again. The real deal doesn't need to repeat endlessly how endowed, intelligent, handsome they are. Fakes and posers on the other hand do. Endless praise of yourself and your lack of empathy for others are flags for the narcissistic personality trait. Its not necessarily a bad thing but the worst psychopaths such as child abusers, serial murderers, rapists, hardened criminals are narcissists. Not saying you are one of them but you have something in common with them.

Of course I can refute this. Check the news for what happened a few days ago. Lots of violence out there is perpetrated by people just like you. Government isn't the only source of violence here or any where else. What a stupid thing to say.

I vote to say what I want to have happen, whether it be better funding for schools, extending roads, zoning or who I choose to be president of the US. I'm not telling anybody how to live, that's your bag. Your "logical end" regarding my vote is not logical.

Ok Captain Blowhard, I'll repeat what I've said before:

I, along with others point out how your ideas would not work due many holes in your fairly weak philosophy, such as it would roll back equal rights protection to minorities, would give free license for sexual predators, would open the floodgates to polluters, would fail in anything other than a sparsely populated rural community of related people, would eventually end in monopoly by the powerful, would devolve socially into a clan driven violent society like those found in Somalia and Afghanistan and you just come back with the same old stuff. So, I'm just saying that what I've learned of your lifestyle is very unappealing to me and most others. It's indistinguishable from poverty. You are happy, and that's fine. But no thanks.

Refute any of this if you like. Thus far, you haven't addressed any of it.

Oh, and one more thing that you didn't address when you hurt your brain trying to do logic: if Jared Foyle had done his dirty in your perfect world, what would be the non-coercive response? You can't answer this because your world is an incomplete fantasy.

That's Colonel Blowhard to you. Now get down and give me 20 girly man!

Rob Roy · Dec 5, 2015

Fogdog said:
About that narcissist label that I hung on you. Well here it is again. The real deal doesn't need to repeat endlessly how endowed, intelligent, handsome they are. Fakes and posers on the other hand do. Endless praise of yourself and your lack of empathy for others are flags for the narcissistic personality trait. Its not necessarily a bad thing but the worst psychopaths such as child abusers, serial murderers, rapists, hardened criminals are narcissists. Not saying you are one of them but you have something in common with them.

Of course I can refute this. Check the news for what happened a few days ago. Lots of violence out there is perpetrated by people just like you. Government isn't the only source of violence here or any where else. What a stupid thing to say.

I vote to say what I want to have happen, whether it be better funding for schools, extending roads, zoning or who I choose to be president of the US. I'm not telling anybody how to live, that's your bag. Your "logical end" regarding my vote is not logical.

Ok Captain Blowhard, I'll repeat what I've said before:

I, along with others point out how your ideas would not work due many holes in your fairly weak philosophy, such as it would roll back equal rights protection to minorities, would give free license for sexual predators, would open the floodgates to polluters, would fail in anything other than a sparsely populated rural community of related people, would eventually end in monopoly by the powerful, would devolve socially into a clan driven violent society like those found in Somalia and Afghanistan and you just come back with the same old stuff. So, I'm just saying that what I've learned of your lifestyle is very unappealing to me and most others. It's indistinguishable from poverty. You are happy, and that's fine. But no thanks.

Refute any of this if you like. Thus far, you haven't addressed any of it.

Oh, and one more thing that you didn't address when you hurt your brain trying to do logic: if Jared Foyle had done his dirty in your perfect world, what would be the non-coercive response? You can't answer this because your world is an incomplete fantasy.

You're right that violence can occur absent government, that's obvious...but that wasn't my point though.

I should have been more succinct. Government CLAIMS a monopoly on violence in a given geographical area.

I've addressed or refuted all of the points you suggest I can't. Maybe I will again when I feel like it.

In fact, you are making a claim that only thru a monopolistic coercion based "system" you can eliminate coercion. How does THAT work ?

skunkwreck · Dec 5, 2015

Rob Roy · Dec 5, 2015

ChesusRice said:
Jared Fogle had the permission of all the children he fucked. Does that make it morally right in your opinion?
Yes or No?

I'll take your word for it,you seem very up to date on his antics, I'm not....it appears we have very different interests.

Do you know if any of your heroes sex partners were capable or incapable of providing consent ? If they were incapable, then he's a clearly in the wrong, if they were capable, I can dislike him, but don't know how what other consenting people do becomes anyone else business. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

Fogdog · Dec 6, 2015

Rob Roy said:
Okay, I can see you're confused on some terms.

When I use the term coercion, it is often applied to a situation where there is an "or else" involved. Meaning one party is not free to disengage and/or another party is involving them in something without their consent. That's the business model of a coercion based government, but I digress.

If a person initiates aggression, it is not coercive for the other person to defend themselves.

So, if Jared the subway douche diddled somebody he shouldn't have, without their consent, that person (the victim) or a person on the victims behalf has a right to defend themself and / or be restituted, which is not based in coercion, it is based in a defensive action, which is morally permissible.

Also I don't have a perfect world, but the world I propose is better than the one you do, because it doesn't have coercion as an accepted systemic norm of the group you call your leaders.

Ok, so now we dive into Rob's dystopian future where your own 12 year old child must protect their-self or they must seek retribution. Rob, come on man, you aren't that dumb but OK, I'll go down this rabbit hole a few meters farther. If the child's authorized second seeks retribution and Jared's hired gunman offs him and the child then what? If the aggrieved is unable to protect their-self and can't find somebody to do it for them, I guess they are SOL.

I'll say it again, I, along with others point out how your ideas would not work due many holes in your fairly weak philosophy, such as it would roll back equal rights protection to minorities, would give free license for sexual predators, would open the floodgates to polluters, would fail in anything other than a sparsely populated rural community of related people, would eventually end in monopoly by the powerful, would devolve socially into a clan driven violent society like those found in Somalia and Afghanistan and you just come back with the same old stuff. So, I'm just saying that what I've learned of your lifestyle is very unappealing to me and most others. It's indistinguishable from poverty. You are happy, and that's fine. But no thanks.

You have said nothing to refute what I and others are saying back to you. You are simply a bat shit crazy nut job.

ChesusRice · Dec 7, 2015

Fogdog said:
Ok, so now we dive into Rob's dystopian future where your own 12 year old child must protect their-self or they must seek retribution. Rob, come on man, you aren't that dumb but OK, I'll go down this rabbit hole a few meters farther. If the child's authorized second seeks retribution and Jared's hired gunman offs him and the child then what? If the aggrieved is unable to protect their-self and can't find somebody to do it for them, I guess they are SOL.

I'll say it again, I, along with others point out how your ideas would not work due many holes in your fairly weak philosophy, such as it would roll back equal rights protection to minorities, would give free license for sexual predators, would open the floodgates to polluters, would fail in anything other than a sparsely populated rural community of related people, would eventually end in monopoly by the powerful, would devolve socially into a clan driven violent society like those found in Somalia and Afghanistan and you just come back with the same old stuff. So, I'm just saying that what I've learned of your lifestyle is very unappealing to me and most others. It's indistinguishable from poverty. You are happy, and that's fine. But no thanks.

You have said nothing to refute what I and others are saying back to you. You are simply a bat shit crazy nut job.

There is no pipeline, schools ARE Prisons

Rob Roy

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