The pat-down. How to walk. It's not rocket science, it's you're rights.

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redivider

Well-Known Member
some insider information, from a cop forum. People this is a couple of cops debating this issue. This is straight from the enemy.

During a Terry Stop, if you can articulate the need for a frisk/pat down, and you feel a bag of dope in, say, the suspect's pants pocket, to remove it you must have known immediately from your experience as an officer that what you were feeling was a bag of dope. The Courts have ruled that if you must "manipulate" the bag while in the pocket, that constitutes a search and will be thrown out (unless you had PC or consent to search, but here were talking strictly about a Terry stop/frisk).

I was another officer's back up when he was checking a subject, and during the frisk, he located a bag of weed in the subject's pants pocket. BUT, he manipulated it before he realized what it was. The dope was entered into property and the subject was sent on his way, because it wouldn't stand up in court.
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The officer must be able to articulate, with training and experience, that what he felt during an outer garment pat-down (via Terry) was immediately apparent that it was contraband. The bigger case involving this was Minnesota v. Dickerson, decided in 1993 by the US Supreme Court. It's funny that the cocaine was surpressed in the Dickerson case, but the US Supreme Court made it clear in this ruling that an officer can seize contraband by "plain feel." If an officer attempts to manipulate the item in any way during the search, then it constitutes a further search and is inadmissible if PC did not exist (US. v. Ross, 1993). Below is an excerpt in the Dickerson case (establishing "plain feel"):

The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously agreed that the cocaine in this case was inadmissible as evidence even though the Court held that officers were allowed to assume that an object was contraband through touch. [3]

“ If a police officer lawfully pats down a suspect's outer clothing and feels an object whose contour or mass makes its identity immediately apparent, there has been no invasion of the suspect's privacy beyond that already authorized by the officer's search for weapons; if the object is contraband, its warrantless seizure would be justified by the same practical considerations that inhere in the plain-view context.

Plain feel does exist. It's very, very limited, but it can be used to seize contraband when only RS exists for a Terry frisk.
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Why do you insist on arguing this point? People have cited court cases and other information that shows the contrary to what you are saying.

This is basic academy information that i learned in week 4 a few years ago. NEVER was there a problem when it happened on the street. As much as we dealt with drugs in Baltimore City, it wasn't rare for a rookie to be able to do this and articulate it. Here's the deal...

While doing a pat down for weapons, if you feel what you believe based on your training and experience to be drugs, you COMPLETE the pat down first. After all, the whole point of a pat down is for weapons and your safety. THEN you can pull out the illegal drugs due to the plain feel doctrine. It probably won't look good for you if you are in the middle of the pat down when you feel the drugs, then pull the drugs out right away, because if you had reason to pat down for fear of your safety and weapons, then you would finish first because if not it looks like you were looking for drugs.

I am sad I don't have the contact information for my old instructor who had a million years as a Police Officer and spend hundreds of dollars every year on the latest law books, law library membership, and ALL of the law databases. I could get him to cite every relevant case to this in minutes.

But DINO, what you are saying is the equivalent of saying if you go to a house for a search warrant for a gun and while you search you find some crack.. But the search warrant isn't for that, so you can't seize the crack.. Just because you are patting down for weapons, does not mean you have to ignore something that is READILY APPARENT as drugs when you pat down the pocket.
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so, whenever a cop is 'patting' you down. he has to be 'patting' no feeling, no manipulating.

remember to always articulater and re-tirculate that you are not consenting to a search.

if you want to walk from a pat-down. don't walk around looking afraid. remember what the cop says. he'll say he's searching you for weapons. ask him why he thinks you're carrying a weapon.... NEVER ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

whenever asked a question by a police officer there's only 3 answers if you're not with you're lawyer:

1) I want to talk to a lawyer. I will not talk without a lawyer present.

2) Am I under arrest, being detained or am I free to go??

3) Silence. just ignore the cop and don't say shit.

if he starts grabbing you're pockets to feel what's inside immediately state that goes against the plain feel doctrine upheld by the supreme court for terry searches. grabbing constitutes an illegal search, you have not consented to be searched, and you want a laywer present before saying another word.

almost NO cop pats down, they all grab and feel. grabbie/feeely = illegal search. only people never contest it, because it's the drug user's word vs. the corrupt cop.

every time you're being patted down remember all of these things and you might walk away.
 
Remember this is before probable cause exists.

This is when your walking down the street minding your own business looking like a stoner, and a cop decides you look like you might have some grass....

Remember that a terry search arises from the need for cops to be sure their safe. Thy can pat the outside of ur clothes. That's not technically searching you. They don't need your consent to pat you down.

If your getting the pat down remain calm and refuse to consent. The cop knows he can't search you so he'll just handcuff you (legal detention, the handcuffs are just for safety, they can detain you for like 42 hrs) and wait for you to resist since you haven't done anything, it's only natural you'll resist. You have to fight that urge b.c. if you resist then you can be arrested for obstruction or some bullshit, and then probable cause exists and your screwed.
 
redivider said:
NEVER ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

whenever asked a question by a police officer there's only 3 answers if you're not with you're lawyer:

1) I want to talk to a lawyer. I will not talk without a lawyer present.

2) Am I under arrest, being detained or am I free to go??

3) Silence. just ignore the cop and don't say shit.



There is no better advice than the one you just gave!!! I think if more people understand these 3 golden rule of thumb than they would be much better off than otherwise.
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