stoned _____ theory

We've all probably heard of the stoned ape theory. In general it goes like this
Ancient ancestors of man (little more than apes) emerging from their normal habitat find mushrooms (or other psychedelics) and eat them. This act promotes self awareness, reflection, thought, all aspect of our "human-ness" or "sentience" that separates us from everything else.

So my question (trying to generate some thoughts/open new ways of thought)
What if the "stoned ape" was replaced with a different animal?
Stoned kitty? Stoned dog?
Now I'm not suggesting we go out and feed our four footed friends a dozen grams of albino penis envy and see what happens, please don't do that! But has anyone seen studies of psychedelics administered to animals? Anyone been tripping and just had that amazing connection to Mr
Sprinkles? Were you able to understand the animal more perhaps? Do you think that maybe in a scientifically controlled environment with responsible people, animals MIGHT achieve the same level of awareness that we do?

I know my dog is self aware. I'm not sure how much he can communicate with me on my level. But when I'm tripping it just FEELS like we get each other
(I should see if he wants to go for a walk)
I think.
Without verbalizing anything, pinche Sombra will go and wait for me. He finds something while we're walking
(No comé wey [don't eat it] I think)
He drops it. But fast as if I had commanded him to.

One day he wanted his walk but I was watching TV with my parents
"Wait till this show is over. 10 minutes Culoman" I tell him.
He spends the next 10 minutes WATCHING TV with us (head straight at TV, cocked to the side like animals do when they see something that's interesting)

I know my pinche sombra is intelligent by himself. Now in a proverbial scientific study, we take sombra primero, sombra Segundo, sombra tercero, sombra cuartero, etc and once a month feed him (and the eventual offspring) 1 gram psylocibin mushrooms. Or maybe 50 mics LSD. (please note this is a pretend experiment, I'm not actually dosing my pet!)

Do You think a change would be noticeable?

Any links or anything to LSD articles that are on studies like this would be cool too! This is just a thought I've been thinking on for a while!

Hmmmmmm...

I believe John c. Lilly gave LSD to dolphins.


Research washo and koko if you want to understand sentience in other species.

Koko most interests me because koko wanted and got a pet cat.

No non aware species could comprehend the concept of pet.

That's pretty neat! I wonder if maybe animals WANT more but are unable to express themselves in a way WE can understand

mikek420 said:

That's pretty neat! I wonder if maybe animals WANT more but are unable to express themselves in a way WE can understand

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Looks like you should research this subject more in depth.

canndo said:

I believe John c. Lilly gave LSD to dolphins.


Research washo and koko if you want to understand sentience in other species.

Koko most interests me because koko wanted and got a pet cat.

No non aware species could comprehend the concept of pet.

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I wouldn't call any animal unaware, or even being unable of self consciousness, although they may be unable to recognize themselves in a mirror they are still alert and completely Present, highly aware and conscious of self.

I'm kinda wondering if maybe they are the smart ones and we are the dummies at the bottom.
What is a pet? An animal with a slave for an owner. The "owner" waits hand over foot for their pet. I know sombra is very well taken care of.
We as humans find it difficult to talk with the bees and the birds, but how hard is it for them to express themselves to us? Not very if you stop to think about it.
But how hard is it for US to understand them?

How many times have you been tripping and noticed an animal expressing itself in a way which your tripping self understood?

I seem to notice them a lot more when I'm high and they seem more calm towards me and I understand them for some reason

mikek420 said:

I'm kinda wondering if maybe they are the smart ones and we are the dummies at the bottom.
What is a pet? An animal with a slave for an owner. The "owner" waits hand over foot for their pet. I know sombra is very well taken care of.
We as humans find it difficult to talk with the bees and the birds, but how hard is it for them to express themselves to us? Not very if you stop to think about it.
But how hard is it for US to understand them?

How many times have you been tripping and noticed an animal expressing itself in a way which your tripping self understood?

I seem to notice them a lot more when I'm high and they seem more calm towards me and I understand them for some reason

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Dogs i know communicate. Its very subtle and emotional.

I believe all living things have a soul. The simple evidence is all living things fight against death. Only in life, more specifically human life, does each soul have the chance to experience enlightenment. But that does not mean a pet Dog is on any differnet path. They just have farther to travel.
And by travel i mean many lifetimes accumulating experience and karma. With the end game being a human incarnation. Only in human form can a soul be enlightened. This is due to free will and choice. But afrer death all souls understand without a shed of illusion the secrets and wonders of creation. And each soul will know what it needs to expiernce next time around in order to increase its chances of God realization or enlightenment. Only then do wr escape the cyclical exsistance of birth and death and reunite with the quantum soul. Our true home.

A plastic bottle of water floating in an ocean may think it is "that bottle" until its opened and merged with the ocean. The illusion is gone and now the water is one with the grand ocean. Just as it always was. Just couldn't see it.

Our physical bodies. Whether human. Cat dog or hamster is the plastic bottled. Makes us believe we are separate.

So yes mike. I believe you do communicate with your dog. Dogs are god spelled backwards and give us pure unconditional love. If we can give our furry friends a peaceful beautiful life you may yet meet sombra later as a human. Perhaps a child of yours. Future romantic partner or any human life which helps sombra on his/her path. Ahhhh lsd right. Many nights with just me and my three dogs. Best conversation ever.

What if being human is NOT the be all end all that once we make the right life choices we are at the end of the cyclical part? I've been thinking a little on that, and I think I see it more when I look at other things, and don't try to quantify them under "human" categories.
I like your reference to dog=God backwards. Sombra loves everyone because I raised him to be very loving loyal and friendly. He is super protective of me too and I see my humanness influence on his dogness, which the two combined amplify his energy self in a way, I guess we communicate telepathically? Either way, the more I focus on "unfocusing" the less I have to verbally communicate to get any point across. To anything person or animal, I'm beginning to see a pattern, and the more I use natural hallucinogens it seems to me that it is easier to coexist with them, and it makes me wonder what life would be like for us (primates) if say a dog had discovered the mushrooms first and took them to his pack?

mikek420 said:

What if being human is NOT the be all end all that once we make the right life choices we are at the end of the cyclical part? I've been thinking a little on that, and I think I see it more when I look at other things, and don't try to quantify them under "human" categories.
I like your reference to dog=God backwards. Sombra loves everyone because I raised him to be very loving loyal and friendly. He is super protective of me too and I see my humanness influence on his dogness, which the two combined amplify his energy self in a way, I guess we communicate telepathically? Either way, the more I focus on "unfocusing" the less I have to verbally communicate to get any point across. To anything person or animal, I'm beginning to see a pattern, and the more I use natural hallucinogens it seems to me that it is easier to coexist with them, and it makes me wonder what life would be like for us (primates) if say a dog had discovered the mushrooms and took them to his pack?

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It wouldnt matter what type of body a conscience being is inhabiting. We are made of earth. Water. Fire. Air and ether. And with ether or consciencness comes free will. So. For all we know any living thing with these five elements could be a conscience thinking being. Including dogs and perhaps little green men. Doesnt mattrrw the body. We are al one. And once your begin see possibility of something other than what wr are programed to think as of the rules of the physical plane, the more strange things will happen. Extra sensory communication. For one. Sure with our dogs because they werent taught any way in which to think. Pure feeling and emotion is how they live and love. Which when we live with our hearts first. Not our Head. We become more tuned in to these subtle enegies and frequencies of communication outside the body.
This is where its tricky because even non verbal communication still uses sensory inputs and triggers to make us feel the other persons thoughts or emotional state. True esp can transcend space and time itself. Example is when close friend of relative passes on. More often than not the other person knew before the death something was wrong or it will come in dreams. But often we alresdy knew by the time the bad news reaches us by telephone or internet. Weird. Right

New Age United said:

I wouldn't call any animal unaware, or even being unable of self consciousness, although they may be unable to recognize themselves in a mirror they are still alert and completely Present, highly aware and conscious of self.

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Self aware, knowing it exists as a separate being, not autonomic.


I have wondered about the his for years and years and the more I look my the more I see evidence of intelligence and basic awareness of at least mammals.

If I can call one of my cats, by name, and he comes, but the other does notnot, could this be evidence of self awareness?

"I heard the big cat with no fur make a sound that represents my label and my label represents me, I guess this time I will go visit the big cat"

And the other, "not me"

Some of the experiments with koko involved pictures. One picture was of a random ape. "what is that koko?"

"ape"

Shown a picture of koko. "what is that koko?"

"koko"

You can't get better evidence than that.

Of course we are cheating. Primates mostly live in hierarchical ordered groups and those animals need degrees of understanding that less social animals do not.


I have had and trained several highly intelligent dogs.

My favorite was a malamute saint mix who became rather famous.

He had a vocabulary of several hundred words, understood degree, and, most importantly, knew the concept left a and rightright.


I like to believe I trained him, I was indeed a good dog trainer but I always had a feel fine that he was training me.


Lilly tells of an incident where he was testing the sound producing range of a dolphin
He taught the dolphin to respond or not at different pitches.


What he quickly discovered was that he had somehow signaled to the dolphin that humans hears in a different window of sonic frequency.

The dolphin used the test to discover human range of hearing, no different H. Than any doctor performing a hearing test.

Imagine the level of comprehension that takes. Species differentiation, analytics of each, specific interaction, comprehension of the concept interspeuecies communication, faculties differentiation and confirmation, extrapolation, imagination, execution

The list goes on.


If dolphins are sentient but have no way no need and perhaps no desire to permanently manipulate their surroundings, it is tough to determine how smart they are.


Now, what if we look at something even more foreign, mushrooms. The filaments, or hyphal in a large mass are as complex as the human brain. Communication across them has been shown to be two way.

How would a mushroom that might sense that another species is able and willing to manipulate it's surroundings in creative ways communicate with it?

The most cultivated mushroom in the world is p. Cubensis

Might that fact imply an act of will by a sentient species attempting to communicate with another?

My dog knows 100+ words in English and Spanish, he knows full sentences and can differentiate between different objects, he knows what is "his" and what is not. You are saying your cat has a "word for you that is awesome! I really want to trip among a bunch of animals and see what they have to tell me. And that is fascinating about the shrooms I did not know that!

Great thread, kind dude.

Just like anything or anyone... A psychoactive substance WILL alter the users mindset.
This being said, this could go either way. I am glad You are not advocating this thought; which is awesome for conversation... A change would most definitely happen if any animal takes a psychedelic.

Dogs and cats are already extremely intuitive and psychedelic compounds will increase that ability, ten fold.

Have any of You noticed when You are tripping LSD around cats or dogs, They act a lot "different" or seem like They communicate with Their body language and eyes more?...
Or maybe it's just the Tripper being extremely aware??? Thoughts???

That's my thought exactly. Its like when I trip around sombra we "talk" without words. I also for some reason when I DO speak, I talk to him in Spanish, and he understands.
Ever gone on a walk (solo or with a pet) and noticed wildlife talking to you?
You are headed past that pine tree, and a bluejay flies at you, as you retreat, the blue jay returns to the tree.
Or, one of my favorites, you are in the woods, lost and tripping, not scared lost just completely in nature and you SEE stuff (grasses, mushrooms, leaves) on the ground glowing and it leads you...
To a majestic site where you are captivated by the beauty
Or
It leads you on a nice path to where you need to go (back towards civilization, your house, a "destination")
I've been led to witness families of animals which I know I wouldn't have seen at any other time. Like everything is talking and for some reason I can understand it. I'm beginning to SEE this stuff when I'm not tripping now, like even though I don't understand what is being said, I can hear the conversation

Sombre gets touchy when its the come up. Like he gets really nervous, and wants to be where he can see what's going on. I almost want to have him in a different room for half hour or so after I dose. It goes away immediately once I start to feel it, like he gets nervous for me, then bam! he's ok with everything

Empathic communication. Animals can sense subtle reactive changes in varied forms. They the associate these changes (electromagnetic, temperature, etc.) with different environmental factors. It is direcly keyed into survival instincts. Look at it this way. A man. Raised alone in the woods.
Sparrows are very much like this. They are very easy to communicate with if you watch how they do it. Think about their whistle as not being speech. But more as a type of emotional "ping" that transmits several different thoughts/feelings at once. They have taught me very interesting things.
Also. As a side subject. Look into infrasound. And other human "infra" senses.

Empathy

Have any of You experienced this with human beings; not just animals???

I do with my mom and its like I know what I should do to make things easier I just don't do them for some reason and then lately I've been trying to step back and I think it works more like instead of trying to do what I always do I let her have her say and then I'm like ok. And that surprises her cause I try not to argue back or anything like that but not because I don't want her to see my point, which I always end up telling her anyway but later and more calm I guess, but because I'm seeing a bigger picture than what is happening in the here and now