starting salaries for head growers and assistants???

RawBudzski

Well-Known Member
Oh I was not justifying any salary based on how mmj industry is exploding. I was simply saying now is the time to get the knowledge to grow before it becomes more popular in the states. When it really becomes decriminalized & mmj spreads even more, many jobs to be had.
 

jackelope

Active Member
wow fellas! thank you so much for all the wisdom on this topic.i'll be honest,i didnt search it before i started the thread so i dont know how many times this has been hashed out already...pun intended...i agree with all that i'm hearing,i have no college education...my creds are only that i grow good meds.i understand that this puts me behind many obvious choices of applicants and i feel like i need to get in before "the scene" chills out and anyone can apply.that said,i also agree i should receive a certain amount of hazard pay but i dont expect to make 100k my first year...i am trying to stay realistic with my long term expectations.all the clones and mothers are established already,we only need to move into the space and we expect dispensaries to open soon...this isnt a MMJ mega-corp...its just the way our law is written in AZ that makes many cardholders coming together easier than so many single locations...
 

jackelope

Active Member
i also agree with rawbudzski...this is a booming industry and one needs to strike while the iron is HOT! and it's getting hot! when i look at how cali and colorado are now.i see so much potential in this market for the people that actually know how to grow it.
 

rocknratm

Well-Known Member
wow fellas! thank you so much for all the wisdom on this topic.i'll be honest,i didnt search it before i started the thread so i dont know how many times this has been hashed out already...pun intended...i agree with all that i'm hearing,i have no college education...my creds are only that i grow good meds.i understand that this puts me behind many obvious choices of applicants and i feel like i need to get in before "the scene" chills out and anyone can apply.that said,i also agree i should receive a certain amount of hazard pay but i dont expect to make 100k my first year...i am trying to stay realistic with my long term expectations.all the clones and mothers are established already,we only need to move into the space and we expect dispensaries to open soon...this isnt a MMJ mega-corp...its just the way our law is written in AZ that makes many cardholders coming together easier than so many single locations...
eh, start your own. a small leased space, youd make well over 100k a year and you prob could run it solo with simple hydro setups (I know nothing about hydro). 100k/4k a pound is 25 pounds. 12000 watts at a gram a watt would get you that. in one cycle at 2-3 months grown and cure time.

Ive heard 18 an eighth of cron in colorado, if its the right shop. So if az is already hot im off on numbers. or if my math failed.

at 20 an eighth youd get 64000 from 25 pounds. In the midwest an eighth is 50-60 of dank.
 

rocknratm

Well-Known Member
what about your second hand man, I forgot. If its me I want 75 k a year for producing total 50 punds with 30k wtts roughly. Or ill go at it alone as a micro grow.

but your helper if its just you 2 should get about half what you do minimum. 75% is more reasonable, and youd have to know more than him.
 

Wordz

Well-Known Member
But just because it's a large industry doesn't mean you should immediately get paid more... Doesn't work that way for anything else - it's kind of like saying Walmart makes billions so if I work for walmart I should be overpaid.
Exactly wal-mart makes billions so if you make over 100k on growing then great for you.
 

rocknratm

Well-Known Member
his text it absurd. but its true, the extreme class differential is absurd as well. The elites, the 1%, make ABSURD amts of money. Builderburg (sp), Walmart, fucking most loan companies, insurance, automobile companies, AIG, fuck. 100k is not too much, dont submit and be a subserviant because you think its more noble. Fuck that.
 

jackelope

Active Member
my right hand will have to figure out his own contract.also,if i could afford to lease my own space i would! the situation here is very fluid and i can still spend as much time as i want working sub-contracts,making good money.when i said i dont expect 100k my first year,i was talking about salary.my right hand is as stoked as i am! ...AZ is hot for now because of opportunity,not because prices are inflated...it's a growing industry,i dont see anything subserviant about being involved with a group that has the finance and vision to go as big as they can.how could that hurt?
 

jackelope

Active Member
as of today az law sais that a patient can not cultivate within 25 miles of the nearest dispensary...we have no dispensary yet and the gov. has frozen apps. until the middle of may...as soon as groups can apply for dispensary lisc. this whole scene here will blow up because in theory,patients will no longer be able to grow there own meds if they live near a dispensary...to continue cultivation one must be a dispensary grower or work as sub-contractor...or both..after things settle down i'm sure it will be a different arrangement BUT at that time the people here that have been building this for the last couple years will be in position to make endless amounts of money just because they are established...i lived in cali 5 years ago and felt the way the wind was blowing there...AZ is still the wild west and i believe that is just how this will all play out here in the next couple years....anybody want to talk logistics? Panhead started but didnt finish...lets say 8x4 trays under 1k-1200 watts hps each...16 plants vegged about 4wks total from cutting...assuming about 2 sqf/plant...i,v run a good SOG style grow for some time and i'm no stranger to monthly harvest but i'v never attempted anything on this scale...i'm trying to figure this out in the terms i have experience with...
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
........snip.......i'm replacing there guy from cali,.....snip....
This is the real point and you glossed over it. So after the crop you 'prove' yourself on who will be replacing you for peanuts? I'm sure you were given all sorts of reasons for the replacement they might be true but my guess would be they are carving more profit for themselves.

I would do my best to work out the largest financial incentive package I could or to work out an actual contract for multi years with X% per lb and X+5% for each successive crop up to an increase you mutually agree upon and a penalty clause for early cancellation by them. Be careful if they say ok but dismissal for cause cancels the penalty. Make sure you spell out precisely the causes and remediation as well as require notice in writing of the deficits.

Arizona is a right to work state so I'd definitely get this all in writing and have an attorney look at it and protect your interests. They aren't shy on getting rid of growers, they've proven that.
 

jackelope

Active Member
This is the real point and you glossed over it. So after the crop you 'prove' yourself on who will be replacing you for peanuts? I'm sure you were given all sorts of reasons for the replacement they might be true but my guess would be they are carving more profit for themselves.

I would do my best to work out the largest financial incentive package I could or to work out an actual contract for multi years with X% per lb and X+5% for each successive crop up to an increase you mutually agree upon and a penalty clause for early cancellation by them. Be careful if they say ok but dismissal for cause cancels the penalty. Make sure you spell out precisely the causes and remediation as well as require notice in writing of the deficits.

Arizona is a right to work state so I'd definitely get this all in writing and have an attorney look at it and protect your interests. They aren't shy on getting rid of growers, they've proven that.
i wouldnt say i glossed over it at all...i understand this point well,AZ is a right to work state...very good points,i'm sure we have az attorneys specializing in this area by now...nothing wrong with legal consultation...
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
anybody want to talk logistics? Panhead started but didnt finish...lets say 8x4 trays under 1k-1200 watts hps each...16 plants vegged about 4wks total from cutting...assuming about 2 sqf/plant...i,v run a good SOG style grow for some time and i'm no stranger to monthly harvest but i'v never attempted anything on this scale...i'm trying to figure this out in the terms i have experience with...
I didnt finish because im not versed in az med laws or your experience level,now that you are talking that you are familiar with sog lets start from there.

If you've grown a sog then we dont even need to go into plant count,one thing i will say about the info you laid out above is if you veg for a month in a sog your gonna have a hella mess on yer hands,the whole concept of sog is to grow one cola per plant,when done right & strain dependant you get donkey dicks for colas,sour deisel,top 44 skunk,critical mass,white widdow ect are all massive cola strains.

As for dual 1,000 watters lighting up a 4 x 8 table i tried that configuration & much prefered running 3 600's with large hoods over the 1,000's,with the bigger lights there is a radient heat factor that cant be controled via air cooling the lights,a few lights sure but when ya get 16 of the 1,000 watters going radient heat keeps the air con going most the time.

Running 3 smaller 600's corrected the radient heat issue where air con didnt come but on the days above 90 degrees outside,running the 3 hoods also made the entire table where nearly every sq inch was directly under a reflector,the whole table is a sweet spot.

I ran 3 hoods per table & the exhaust ports were daisy chained,for exhaust power i set up each exhaust system in a push pull configuration,one fan pushing fresh cool air into the lights with another fan on the out end pulling hot air out,this keeps the glass so cool the canopy can grow directly into the glass with zero burn should you forget to raise the hood to within 1 inch of the canopy.

I ran the 1,000's & the 600's & obviously kept a close eye on final weights,the smaller/cooler lights were more productive for me.

If your going to run a large op then automation is the key.

For rez cooling i was running 8 seperate chillers for the 55 gallon rez's,as you can imagine those fukers cost me over $400 a month to run,i ended up using basic geothermal principals for rez temp control.

I owned my bldg so i can do wtf i needed,i dug a trench in the floor with a mini backhoe i rented then sunk all 8 55 gallon plastic drums in the trench,i lined the trench with sheet rubber to block roots & backfilled with sand,while back filling i mixed salt in with the sand to be sure no roots could grow & compromise the rez's,final rez height is 6 inches above grade so no floor debris could enter,lastly each rez has a plastic lid.

For getting water to the table from the rez i used a fail safe technique,under each table is an inline pump that does not need to be submerged,it sucks water instead of pushing water,on the hose running from the inline pumps i installed a propeller type submersible pump,this way if one pump fails back up pump is allready running.

For changing rez water i placed a submersible sump pump in each rez,hooked each pump up to a exact length of garden hose,all sump pumps pump water directly into the waste water plumbing of the building,to operate all the pumps i ran 4 20 amp outlets,i flip a switch & a rez will drain in less than 5 minutes.

For filling the rez's i ran a 1 inch water line directly to the rez area & made a manifold out of pvc where each rez has a fawcett directly over the rez,from the fawcett i used lengths of garden hose that extend 18 inches into the barrel.

On each table i reclaimed all light normaly lost out the sides,i took 2x4's & cut them to the length of each table,i then cut peices of white panda plastic & stapled them to the 2x4,each light tarp has eye hooks on top that connect to gear type locking light hangers,as the lights need to be raised i raise the light traps to keep all light in the grow area.

For a support table holding each flood tray i made my own,i made frames out of 2x4 & used 1/2 plywood for a table top,i installed 6 legs on each table made from 4x4,the 2 legs that would normaly go dead center i moved them 6 inches twords the pump side so the table is lower at drain,each leg has a multi directional metal caster wheel so the tables can be easily moved in & out of the grow for harvesting,cleaning & restocking,i got that idea from looking at a 6 wheel home depot lumber cart where 2 wheels are off the ground at all times,you can move 1,000 lbs effortlessly.

For air exchange i used 2 large can type carbon filters powered by 8 inch fans,for air quality i run 2 uv type ozone generators 24 hours a day,each generator has a wall mount oscalating fan directly over top to disperse the ozone.

CAUTION,READ & FULLY UNDERSTAND OZONE GENERATORS & ACCEPTABLE OZONE LEVELS BEFORE RUNNING ONE,ozone in excess will fry plants,the uv type generators are much more reliable vs other types & produce a steady output,vs an output that is effected by humidity.

If i had to do things over i would do a few things different,i would run 240 volt for the lighting,i would imcrease water inlet size from 1 inch to 2 inch,other than that i was happy with the room.


Sog flood n drain was my method & very productive,that set up is capable of pulling 5 lbs top quality each harvest,a few zips here n there of lessor quality that gets used as fodder for secondary products such as hash & oils or medibles.

When i sold my shares back to the club i also sold that grow op & the bldg housing the grow,im tired of all the shit.

Anyhow dig this,im not trying to bum you out but every hired hand grower ive seen has got shit on by the club owner,in every case.

The co-op i co owned had my grow plus 2 others,in the others each hired grower was supplied a helper who was green to growing bud,in both cases the helper was a family member of my partners,after both kids learned how to run the grows the main growers were laid off/dismissed,take this advice if you dont listen to anything else i post,automate everything in sight & only use labor that you provide,have them pay you as a subcontractor & you hire your help,only use semi experienced people ( no friends ) & replace them every few months before they can run the operation without you.

The greed of most dispensary owners knows no bounds & they will most likely try & use a family member to keep everything in house,trust me on this shit,it allways starts the same way where the owner has the best intentions,then once the cash starts piling up lile a mofo they all pull in all their family who does not have good jobs on the street,teach em to grow & everybody not related gets the pink slip.

If your gonna be the grow master than keep it that way,you cant begin to imagine the arguements i had with my 2 partners over pure fukin greed,not to mention all the employees who put their heart & soul into getting the business off the ground,i had equal vote & was out voted on replacing employees with family,once i sold out the last non family bud tender ( my disabled friend) was replaced with their family.

I can set you up with alot more info but we need to go to pm,some shit isnt for open forum.
 

jackelope

Active Member
with what he said, id try to run your own small time instead.
i can run my own small time on the side with enough help...it sounds like endless amounts of work but its realy just watering and other routine after the initial set up stage.that will no doubt be a bitch...
 

Winter Woman

Well-Known Member
i can run my own small time on the side with enough help...it sounds like endless amounts of work but its realy just watering and other routine after the initial set up stage.that will no doubt be a bitch...
When you are in horticulture it is an endless series of cycles that with time will be boring.
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
I read your pm,your on the right track,shit gets overwhelming when your just getting started & all you can do is try n keep shit in perspective,just allways remember that on your 1st day of work for the grow it will be the previous growers 1st day since he was pushed out,the message im trying to impress upon you is that your days are numbered so take full advantage of everything,make contacts,do side deals,broker your skill set & put away all the cash you can.

If your goal is to have a lengthy carerr in the biz then you need to be the one holding all the cards,in this case cash,either buy your way in with cash or work a percentage deal because if not its very hard to remain a viable asset to a club.

Enough of that back to grow talk,ya need to do some research on sog before setting up,running a single 1,000 or 2 600's over a 4ft x 8ft table will give you 25% loose wispy airy buds EVERY TIME,the light rails you asked about are also a bad idea,in a true sog you only have 1 cola per plant & 12 hrs a day to build the size of the bud,every minute that bud is outside the optimum light zone is time the bud is loosing density,which means weight loss.

A 1,000 watter is only good for a 4x4 table & a single 600 is too small for the same 4x4 table,never try & keep electric costs down via going with weak light,you keep costs down by cutting costs in areas like AC,rez cooling,if you eleminate the radient heat factor by using the smaller 600 watt light you cut the need for air conditioning atleast in half,same goes for rez cooling,spend the time setting up the rez to use geothermal cooling & you save an additional 400 watts every 12 hours.

The least light you can get away with on a 4x8 table is 2 1,000 watt lights with 3ft x 3ft hoods,this set up still leaves 14 sq feet of table/canopy that is not directly under a reflector,in a sog canopy management is everything,most plants that are not directly under the reflector need to be rotated so they wont stretch which will in turn seriously affect canopy height.

By running the tripple 600's over the table you cut the canopy area not covered by a reflector in half which means 50% less chance of stretching & density loss,plus you save another 200 watts per table.

I cant stress proper light coverage enough for a sog op,most people think the larger 1,000 watt bulbs will provide better lighting vs a 600 watt bulb due to the 1,000 having so much more lumens to start with,its true they have more penetration power but ya gotta keep in mind that light fades with distance,in most cases the extra lumens of the 1,000 watt light are lost because of how far even the best cooled 1,000 watt light needs to be kept from the canopy,a 1,000 watt bulb will need to be kept 8 to 12 inches from canopy where the 600 can be kept a millimeter from the canopy,a smaller light eleminates any loss of light due to heat concerns.

When i 1st set up the grow i used dual 1000's on the 1st 6 tables,the the plan was to use 8 tables but my grow shop broke 2 so i could only set up 6 & the radient heat from all 12 of those 1,000's kept the AC going full tilt,on the other 2 i went with the tripple 600's,with a cheap $30 lumen meter i could measure all variables between both light systems,with both lights at an equal distance the 1,000 has better penetration but at a distance of 6 inches the 1,000 had lost so much it measured the same lumens as the smaller 600 & every inch past 6 inches puts the 1,000 behind the 600 for penetration,if you cool a 1,000 watt light the absolute maximum cooling factor it stll generates so much radient light it needs to be kept 6 to 12 inches from canopy,at best the 1,000 ends up being equal to the 600 for penetration but then you have to deal with all the radient heat,heat which is not a factor with 600's.

All this shit adds up to work hours & dollars wasted,running tripple 600's makes for a less costly grow that is more productive with less man hours spent.

Light movers are a gimmick in most cases,at best they should be used to add supplemental light to long narrow areas via one light,trying to increase coverage with them WILL give you negative results,i have a pile of em collecting dust becase i fell for the gimmicky seudo science behind them.

Clones & veg time are another factor,in a sog you want short single cola plants,the longer a clone is allowed to veg you increase final plant height,you also increase the stretch out factor,all plants will double or tripple in height & the shorter veg time keeps the plants closer to doubling in height,the longer the veg the closer to trippling in height.

Sometimes veg time is needed but only if you start out with clones that are too small,a sog clone should be 6 to 12 inches high before rooting,anything less than 6 inches will give you an under sized cola so then you veg until its large enough,then your cola will be large enough but you've pushed the plant where it wants to tripple in height.

If you start off with clones that are 8 to 12 inches high you will not need or want any veg time,if your using sponge plugs aka rapid rooters you insert the plants in the table once the root system is 2 to 3 inches out of the sponge,if using rockwoll you wait till roots stick out of the block in several areas before loading them in the table,time from cutting the clone to insertion in the table will vary thats why i use root degelopment to determine when.

If its a numbers game where plant count is a factor sog may not be the best option,sog is best for high plant count,a 4ft x 8ft table is good for 30 plants without being too crowded,any more & i get problems with powdery mildew,that ends up being a plant every 1sq ft once you deduct table room to allow for water inlet & drain.

Keep in mind humidity control,running 8 tables gave me over 320 sq foot of moisture laden area,figure out how to set shit up where you have the ability to control humidity as effective as heat & cooling controls,factory lids for flood tables work excellent & stops humidity from entering the room.

Good luck,once ya decide on exact set up & grow systems if i can help more lemme know,ive been where your at so i know how overwhelming all of it is.
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
If they offered you $40k, ask for $50k. That's how negotiations work. $40k is too low to run the risk of federal incarceration anyway. They will respect you more for knowing your worth in the long run as well.
 
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