Some DIY LED questions....

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IggyP

Active Member
After so long of rolling eyes to LED promises and "stats"...im Finally starting to focus on some of this tech and catch up a bit...pretty much focused to these infamous samsung s6 lm561c, but i am curious if there are better by now, and what cost comparison of the bleeding edge diodes...
fyi otherwise, this post will be referencing those...

I have been digging, reading, and researching a few days now till ive gone crosseyed...perhaps a community of fellow cannabis lovers can help me understanding some of the parts im missing ;P
I will number the questions thru this post to ease in reply....that will help at least some this mess in my head lol...

So to start out i am given some impressions on the plus and minus of diff paths, and the benefits of (or lack of) DIY for certain parts, which is a little confusing.....for example it seems spacing is in some controversy/difficulty....or else i assume there would be 4ft x 4ft boards and all this bit bigger would be more popular...

Instead of these 800+ boards and such, looks like more ppl go the smaller QB route or strips, which oddly HLG QB have 2 very similar models which i also dont fully understand.....the 304, and, let see i have this right, a 288 which is slightly scaled back for better driver compatibility??(#1 please explain)

So perhaps the smaller boards has to do with being easier for drivers more than spacing or such?(#2)....it does seem spacing is a big cornerstone tho, so i will try to keep this from wormholing too much...i am wondering why the smaller boards tho...just easier to work with etc, i can imagine but seems like other stuff going on...

Spacing!!!
ok focus that lol...we can consider a comparison of the samsung F-series to H-series....H is more spread out...would that be better???(#3)
i see the F-series seems to have an up front cost benefit of more diodes for only slightly more expensive, but how does it play into spacing and overall usage efficiency?

lets see....has this all gone far enough anyone has come up with an "ideal spacing" per diode?(#4) for flowering...its seems this would be out, but im a little confused why there are not boards already built like that...i am by nature a bit of a "light spreader" i have been happy pushing 1k hps to 6ft or so with the right hood and clearing 3+, so cant help but feel people/manufacturers etc gonna overpack the diodes in....

i am also noticing the QB boards not using diff spectrum diodes, what is the reason for this?(#5)

...This far gets to lead me to an assumption = "you can get a better result AND save money by mixing spectrum and spacing with strips(most likely the 1ft models) over QB boards" correct?(#6)

....i sort of need to slap something together quick, but its not my style, so i am in conflict with that some....for the quick at least im leaning toward something like getting some boards, heatsinks, and drivers separately then doing a kit that is already half assembled basically......so along that line of ideas>>>

how can you tell which gear online is legit???(#7)
..lol....seriously tho....a level of certainty is important to me, 10% output is 10% id rather have than not....so i am staying away from all ebay and alibaba just seems too sketchy....even by so called trusted vendors it seems there is inconsistency reported....there are a few i saw tho....making boards, like atreum for one example....."they care so much for quality in fact, they make sure the lights come on" lol....useless....not the assurance i was after lol....in particular as availability is such an issue still...trying to sort thru which ones outside of HLG are legit.........i also saw some DIY re-sells with mixed spectrum which, in theory could be an improvement??? and the sort of thing i might eventually dabble into but that ties to earlier questions basically...why isnt mixed spectrum already being employed etc...

perhaps this is a good start but i should probably throw a couple in about drivers as well lol....

Did anyone dig into the programmable mean well drivers yet?(#8) i saw somewhere it said they were available by request only.....im currently running DE on a sunrise/sunset so couldnt help but be curious some...

Otherwise, im just trying to figure out exactly how to pair driver to lighting but i know that will be more complicated a Q so perhaps later....more simply for now tho, for say perhaps a 4-6 board build how many drivers would be optimal and why?(#9) ...its another thing i see, not only more small boards but also drivers...why not wire 4 boards to one driver if they are all operating the same schedule etc anyway...

(#10)How is everyone? haha, dont really get out much but maybe there is some friends around eh ;P


thanks all, i appreciate any help clearing some of this fog....i intend to do a build topic somewhere as well once i sort some of these details...needs to be boiled down a little cleaner tho......run a fractional distill on all this info and dab it straight to my brain pls lol....peace!

 
I

IggyP

Active Member
haha keep scrolling there more lol......its ok i know i am trying to rush alot quickly but in short it cannot really be avoided for these windows im working with...

i am a quick study i answered half my questions already, i will update in, but for now at least i wanted to ask this:

oh hmm....wont let me paste links so i can only paste in digikey part #s i guess...

(#11) is this item suitable for a blooming strips build?
1510-1584-ND



cheers
 
V

Viceman666

Well-Known Member
IggyP said:
After so long of rolling eyes to LED promises and "stats"...im Finally starting to focus on some of this tech and catch up a bit...pretty much focused to these infamous samsung s6 lm561c, but i am curious if there are better by now, and what cost comparison of the bleeding edge diodes...
fyi otherwise, this post will be referencing those...

I have been digging, reading, and researching a few days now till ive gone crosseyed...perhaps a community of fellow cannabis lovers can help me understanding some of the parts im missing ;P
I will number the questions thru this post to ease in reply....that will help at least some this mess in my head lol...

So to start out i am given some impressions on the plus and minus of diff paths, and the benefits of (or lack of) DIY for certain parts, which is a little confusing.....for example it seems spacing is in some controversy/difficulty....or else i assume there would be 4ft x 4ft boards and all this bit bigger would be more popular...

Instead of these 800+ boards and such, looks like more ppl go the smaller QB route or strips, which oddly HLG QB have 2 very similar models which i also dont fully understand.....the 304, and, let see i have this right, a 288 which is slightly scaled back for better driver compatibility??(#1 please explain)

So perhaps the smaller boards has to do with being easier for drivers more than spacing or such?(#2)....it does seem spacing is a big cornerstone tho, so i will try to keep this from wormholing too much...i am wondering why the smaller boards tho...just easier to work with etc, i can imagine but seems like other stuff going on...

Spacing!!!
ok focus that lol...we can consider a comparison of the samsung F-series to H-series....H is more spread out...would that be better???(#3)
i see the F-series seems to have an up front cost benefit of more diodes for only slightly more expensive, but how does it play into spacing and overall usage efficiency?

lets see....has this all gone far enough anyone has come up with an "ideal spacing" per diode?(#4) for flowering...its seems this would be out, but im a little confused why there are not boards already built like that...i am by nature a bit of a "light spreader" i have been happy pushing 1k hps to 6ft or so with the right hood and clearing 3+, so cant help but feel people/manufacturers etc gonna overpack the diodes in....

i am also noticing the QB boards not using diff spectrum diodes, what is the reason for this?(#5)

...This far gets to lead me to an assumption = "you can get a better result AND save money by mixing spectrum and spacing with strips(most likely the 1ft models) over QB boards" correct?(#6)

....i sort of need to slap something together quick, but its not my style, so i am in conflict with that some....for the quick at least im leaning toward something like getting some boards, heatsinks, and drivers separately then doing a kit that is already half assembled basically......so along that line of ideas>>>

how can you tell which gear online is legit???(#7)
..lol....seriously tho....a level of certainty is important to me, 10% output is 10% id rather have than not....so i am staying away from all ebay and alibaba just seems too sketchy....even by so called trusted vendors it seems there is inconsistency reported....there are a few i saw tho....making boards, like atreum for one example....."they care so much for quality in fact, they make sure the lights come on" lol....useless....not the assurance i was after lol....in particular as availability is such an issue still...trying to sort thru which ones outside of HLG are legit.........i also saw some DIY re-sells with mixed spectrum which, in theory could be an improvement??? and the sort of thing i might eventually dabble into but that ties to earlier questions basically...why isnt mixed spectrum already being employed etc...

perhaps this is a good start but i should probably throw a couple in about drivers as well lol....

Did anyone dig into the programmable mean well drivers yet?(#8) i saw somewhere it said they were available by request only.....im currently running DE on a sunrise/sunset so couldnt help but be curious some...

Otherwise, im just trying to figure out exactly how to pair driver to lighting but i know that will be more complicated a Q so perhaps later....more simply for now tho, for say perhaps a 4-6 board build how many drivers would be optimal and why?(#9) ...its another thing i see, not only more small boards but also drivers...why not wire 4 boards to one driver if they are all operating the same schedule etc anyway...

(#10)How is everyone? haha, dont really get out much but maybe there is some friends around eh ;P


thanks all, i appreciate any help clearing some of this fog....i intend to do a build topic somewhere as well once i sort some of these details...needs to be boiled down a little cleaner tho......run a fractional distill on all this info and dab it straight to my brain pls lol....peace!
Click to expand...
#1 288 are 50-60V while 304 is 115V.. one can be wired in series while the other more than likely parallel but either way it doesnt matter much.. about the same thing.. I dont think HLG market the 304 anymore so youre option is 288 - by the way they are coming out with a new V2 boards in couple days/week so if you decide to go this route id wait on those.. they will us lm301b diodes instead of lm561c which is a little more efficient 4-10% but testing result should be available before end of month from what Ive read so far..

#2 yes spread is good and one reason why many DIY decide to go with strips instead of boards to have a more even light spread but both will work great..

#3 like anything else, price per strips comes into play H serie is not a bad choice but not as many diodes as the F series which is why many buy the F series.. the Q series which uses lm301b is good too just not enough diodes on each strips to make it a good value pick but if your concern is most efficient than your best bet is wither Q strips or the new HLG 288 boards which will feature the same diodes.. there is a very good article on Ledgardener website with the difference between the strips..

#4 multiple light source will always be better than one light source.. it avoids hot zone by spreading the light more evenly thats the only benefits.. between hps and boards there is a good significant difference.. from boards to strips its a bit more debatable but should still have a difference in getting more good size buds all over your canopy

#5 white LEDs are "full spectrum" meaning it include blue green red, etc.. they are usually available in different temp 3000k,3500k,4000k, etc.. which will have more red or blue spectrum.. depends if you want a light for veg or flower or both.. 3000-4000k should be able to grow good for full grow above 4000k id use for veg only unless you mix with lower K light.. ive seen some people adding some red/far red to the white LED to increase the red spectrum and to date its still up in the air if it makes a real difference but it should still provide a little advantage during flower..

#6
Yes usually strips will come down cheaper than getting a qb boards but will require some work on your part to build. Id probably use 2foot or 4 foot strips and yes you can mix spectrum but once again you can factor in the cost as more of the same strips will usually give you a bulk discount while if you get small amount of different strips you wont get that benefit..

#7 buying from HLG or digikey guarantee you you get what you paid for.. order from china on alibaba and its up in the air what you get lm561c? Lm561b+? Lm561y? Other diodes?.. thats the risk although the price will be cheaper..

#8 never tried sorry

#9 because usually bigger driver are more expensive than 2 smaller one.. example 2 hlg-240c2100 will be cheaper than a 480 hlg driver so people tend to prefer to use multiple drivers.. also you may not want to run them all on at the same time depending how big is your plant so with multiple driver you can customize those setting but either option will achieve somewhat the same result. - dont quote me here but I think smaller driver are a tiny bit more efficient if I remember correctly but there is really not a big difference (check the prices and datasheet to compare)..

#10 doing great

Hope the above somewhat help you a bit
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
That's the Samsung strips you want!

2ft. single row, LT-F562B, 25w
3000K SI-B8V261560WW
3500K SIWW8U261560WW
4000K SI-B8T261560WW
5000K SI-B8R261560WW

2ft. double row, LT-F564B, 50w
3000K SI-B8V521560WW
3500K SI-B8U521560WW
4000K SI-B8T521560WW
5000K SI-B8R521560WW

4ft. SR, LT-FB22B, 50w
3000K SI-B8V521B20WW
3500K SI-B8U521B20WW
4000K SI-B8T521B20WW
5000K SI-B8R521B20WW

4ft. DR, LT-FB24B, 100w
3000K SI-B8VZ91B20WW
3500K SI-B8UZ91B20WW
4000K SI-B8TZ91B20WW
5000K SI-B8RZ91B20WW

Exact the same diodes like on H-series 50% more of them. That means at the same current and forward voltage the F-series is more efficient.
 

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Aolelon

Aolelon

Well-Known Member
The smaller board has a higher mA too meaning you can driver it harder than the 304.
The reason they dont have different color temp diodes is because you just get an average of the 2, if I use 10 3000k and 10 4000k my cct is going to be 3500k, more efficient to use 3500k diodes.
The spacing in the diodes are fine. There isnt a real way to figure out ideal diode spacing. That would be a ridiculous endeavor.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
At first it seems right! 3000 + 4000°k looks like 3500°k, yes, ... but only to the human eye!
If you look closer at the SPD's of both spectrums and put them on top of each other for comparison, you'll see that the mix of 4000 + 3000°K is slightly different than 3500°K. Eg. the bright blue area around 485nm, but also in the area around 430nm. So the difference is that you get a wider blue coverage and a little more green at the expense of some red with such a combination.
For that reason for instance the Nextlight's(Mini and Max) use a mix of 5000°k and 2700 or 3000°k. Also the Indagro LED has two different spektrums but there it's possible to dimm them both seperately.
 
I

IggyP

Active Member
nice this gives me a little to consider :) thank you all for taking some time.....a short explanation just to give a quick peek into where im at in my thinking with this....

i did at least get far enough to see that Q series is a no.....but the reason i was confused about the F and H series is based on one assumption.....just at a glance, coming into this....it looks like people are going strips over boards for better spacing and the ability to mix spectrums more easily, correct? saving a little money doesnt hurt either, but the result is most imp...

for example at a glance i see some builds with boards and its some consideration about spacing for even lighting etc......if the diodes were spaced out "properly" the entire "over canopy" area could be essentially one board, with perfect consistency which seems more optimal.....i can imagine why commercial board guys might not wanna engineer like this, but seems better so i was thinking of gearing a strips build along this line, esp since i am nowhere near considering building my own boards atm...

by that logic it seems to make sense to go with a more "spaced out" h-series......however running more diodes at the same current being more efficient makes for some power logic lol....i will def have to consider that....

what i wanted to do was something like alternating 3k and 2700k strips....but since i guess 2700k strips dont exist? not sure what the next option would be.....im keen on that idea, because i would like to be able to turn "half the fixture" off for a simple veg, so to speak, then kick the 2700 to double intensity for flowering......perhaps i could do something like that but 3k only or? hmm

just eyeballing the spectral output charts it sort of seemed like just solo 3k might be best for bloom...although im already thinking about UV and IR DIY strips mixed in or however all that is done....u guys think it really needs the blue bad enough to justify mixing some higher temp diodes in?

basically thinking aluminum channels frame but i can grid them thick im not scared of a huge framing for better coverage lol...

thanks again, i will try and be helpful in return as i go thru this.....kind of looking at a 4week window or so to get this build fully rocking ;P
 
skoomd

skoomd

Well-Known Member
IggyP said:
nice this gives me a little to consider :) thank you all for taking some time.....a short explanation just to give a quick peek into where im at in my thinking with this....

i did at least get far enough to see that Q series is a no.....but the reason i was confused about the F and H series is based on one assumption.....just at a glance, coming into this....it looks like people are going strips over boards for better spacing and the ability to mix spectrums more easily, correct? saving a little money doesnt hurt either, but the result is most imp...

for example at a glance i see some builds with boards and its some consideration about spacing for even lighting etc......if the diodes were spaced out "properly" the entire "over canopy" area could be essentially one board, with perfect consistency which seems more optimal.....i can imagine why commercial board guys might not wanna engineer like this, but seems better so i was thinking of gearing a strips build along this line, esp since i am nowhere near considering building my own boards atm...

by that logic it seems to make sense to go with a more "spaced out" h-series......however running more diodes at the same current being more efficient makes for some power logic lol....i will def have to consider that....

what i wanted to do was something like alternating 3k and 2700k strips....but since i guess 2700k strips dont exist? not sure what the next option would be.....im keen on that idea, because i would like to be able to turn "half the fixture" off for a simple veg, so to speak, then kick the 2700 to double intensity for flowering......perhaps i could do something like that but 3k only or? hmm

just eyeballing the spectral output charts it sort of seemed like just solo 3k might be best for bloom...although im already thinking about UV and IR DIY strips mixed in or however all that is done....u guys think it really needs the blue bad enough to justify mixing some higher temp diodes in?

basically thinking aluminum channels frame but i can grid them thick im not scared of a huge framing for better coverage lol...

thanks again, i will try and be helpful in return as i go thru this.....kind of looking at a 4week window or so to get this build fully rocking ;P
Click to expand...
Yeah strips are becoming the new best thing because of uniformity, ease of cooling, and their ease to adapt to any size setup. I mean shit, the fluence spydr x plus has been out for a couple years now and is still one of the best LED lights.

2700k strips dont exist. 3000k is fine. People who use 4000k for flower say they dont yield less than they do with 3000k. But they get more trichomes :) So 2700k is not needed at all imo.


I am using 3000k mixed with 3500k myself. Works good in veg so far, and i expect it to yield me a LOT in flower and the 3500k maybe gives more frost in the end.

Dont worry bout UV/IR yet. UV especially. Using more blue spectrum (higher K) will have a similar affect on quality as using UV would anyways (this is according to science, not broscience btw). IR is nice as it can speed up flower, but that's it.
 
diyled

diyled

Well-Known Member
skoomd said:
Dont worry bout UV/IR yet. UV especially. Using more blue spectrum (higher K) will have a similar affect on quality as using UV would anyways (this is according to science, not broscience btw). IR is nice as it can speed up flower, but that's it.
Click to expand...
Here you go again taking about things you haven even experimented with but because you Google it you are the expert.


Note to anybody taking advise from others. Check there grows before you listen. Have they been pulling perfect grows for a while or just a noob with 1 sick plant.
 
skoomd

skoomd

Well-Known Member
diyled said:
Here you go again taking about things you haven even experimented with but because you Google it you are the expert.


Note to anybody taking advise from others. Check there grows before you listen. Have they been pulling perfect grows for a while or just a noob with 1 sick plant.
Click to expand...

I've done my research on UV and IR. And am aware how it affects your plants. I am just telling him to get his LEDs all set up and get used to them before throwing UV and IR into the equation.


Lol and a noob with 1 sick plant.... okay. I've been pulling a pound+ from 420w of shitty blurple LEDs for the last year or two. Lets see you pull 18 ounces from 420w of blurples LOL.

Generally my plants are fairly damn healthy.... I just have a finnicky strain at the moment that was doing fine until the last couple of days ago. But thanks though. I think i know how to grow healthy plants ;)

 
I

IggyP

Active Member
hmm....well for a start i just ordered 100- 2ft single row 3000k Fseries ;P
hangers, and thermal tape....aluminum framing/heatsinks should be in a couple days...

so next is working out spacing, and if i am blowing it by not mixing spectrums i will have to get a few more to mix in...still not sure what temps tho its seem arguments for all of them lol...seems like perhaps a 4k or 5k every 3rd-4th strip or so should be enough depending on spacing eh?

which for that, i was actually thinking something like 1.25" apart or so....id also like to try to get a low enough current, whatever that is, to push em around that 200 per watt sweet spot if its not too impractical....

i usually scrog pretty hardcore btw fwiw....nice perfect even canopy likes perfect even lights

EDIT: oh yeah im shooting for 4- 2' x 4' sections too btw...
 
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Chip Green

Chip Green

Well-Known Member
You're not blowing it with the 3000K, don't get too caught up in splitting hairs over the spectrum....Ive been using 3500K and 3000K and the results are beyond satisfactory.

If I'm reading that correctly, you've got 100 pcs of 2 Ft 3000K F series, to cover 4 areas of 8 Sq ft?
If that is in fact the case, 25 strips over each area, at 500ma will be 35(ish) W/sq ft......
 
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Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
skoomd said:
Yeah strips are becoming the new best thing because of uniformity, ease of cooling, and their ease to adapt to any size setup. I mean shit, the fluence spydr x plus has been out for a couple years now and is still one of the best LED lights.

2700k strips dont exist. 3000k is fine. People who use 4000k for flower say they dont yield less than they do with 3000k. But they get more trichomes :) So 2700k is not needed at all imo.


I am using 3000k mixed with 3500k myself. Works good in veg so far, and i expect it to yield me a LOT in flower and the 3500k maybe gives more frost in the end.

Dont worry bout UV/IR yet. UV especially. Using more blue spectrum (higher K) will have a similar affect on quality as using UV would anyways (this is according to science, not broscience btw). IR is nice as it can speed up flower, but that's it.
Click to expand...
Can you show me scientific evidence for that? Maybe a PDF?
Afaik, UVB has a measurable effect and all plants receive it daily. You can keep 250μW/cm² all day long without damaging the plant(at least a C. plant).
Near the equator, the midday intensity of UVB is over 400μW/cm².
The UVB radiation stresses the plant and stimulates their defense system so that up to 30% more active ingredients are formed. I doubt that a bit more blue light alone has the same effect. Although one can trigger stress with blue light(because of the energy level), it would take a hell lot of blue at the end of flowering.
Maybe blue only for a week or so..?!? But that's a guess..

Täglicher UVB Anteil .jpg

In the mountains for instance, the light is not more blue, but the UV content is significantly higher and we know that the strongest varieties are found just where the UV levels are naturally high.
 
Humple

Humple

Well-Known Member
diyled said:
Here you go again taking about things you haven even experimented with but because you Google it you are the expert.


Note to anybody taking advise from others. Check there grows before you listen. Have they been pulling perfect grows for a while or just a noob with 1 sick plant.
Click to expand...
Off-topic, but that looks like a nice guerilla grow in your avatar. Yours?
 
Humple

Humple

Well-Known Member
diyled said:
Yea lat53 uk. Nothing compared to this year's ;)

I'm not here as a vendor now so I'll start showing abit of growing. Indoor, outdoors I just like to grow.
Click to expand...
I've never been to the old country (my people are originally from Wales), so I don't know much about your countryside, but I have wondered how many good guerilla spots there could be? Just looking at the total square miles and total population, it seems like it could be problematic finding out-of-the-way areas! Here in Michigan, we've got almost 100,000 square miles and just 10 million people, so there's plenty of space for being sneaky...
 
diyled

diyled

Well-Known Member
Humple said:
I've never been to the old country (my people are originally from Wales), so I don't know much about your countryside, but I have wondered how many good guerilla spots there could be? Just looking at the total square miles and total population, it seems like it could be problematic finding out-of-the-way areas! Here in Michigan, we've got almost 100,000 square miles and just 10 million people, so there's plenty of space for being sneaky...
Click to expand...
Plenty of space you just do a few plots incase some get found.
 
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