So today is the end of week 4 in flower after i visiously defoliated my girls

Today starts week five, and what a ride so far! up to this point i have posted alot of pics and have gotten alot if good advice. I also cought attitude when i had my head up my ass about being told my girsl had pm. wich almst instantly gave me pms.
So that being said this week i have been at war with PM and at first the bitch was winning! But after a good doushing with neem oil (minor success) i went and got green cure potassium bicarbonate and gave them a serious doushing last night, almost to the point that I was sure i may have just killed them! At least the la confidential, oh i forgot to mention that the guy i got the clones from kinda pissed me off too. Come to find out the clones were not all la confidential, i ended up with 2 berry ryder out of 6 so that explains a few things that have been going on. like why i had 2 that were not taking the nutes very well burned pretty bad when all the others did not. Anyway, so as i said 2 weeks ago i litterally stripped my plant at the word of an old man who has been growing longer than I've been alive and i wint post the la or the berry cause they aint worth posting yet but the blue dream i have never got the pm, i dont know how but the didnt, anyway here they are entering week 5. im posting a then and now of these two that werent even suppose to live! and they still have another 4 weeks minimum everything ive read says 9-10 weeks for these little ladies.

could be twice the harvest if she wasnt bald
I'd stop taking advice from anyone suggesting
this type of defoliation.
ive never seen such molestation in nature. notice when deer chew foliage from
outdoor plants they grow poorly, and are stunted?

chemphlegm said:

could be twice the harvest if she wasnt bald

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Really i thought for 4 weeks they looked pretty good

I wont ne harvesting for another 4-5 weeks

sure, they look good)subjective term)

but, "could be twice the harvest if she wasnt bald"

chemphlegm said:

sure, they look good)subjective term)

but, "could be twice the harvest if she wasnt bald"

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Im not buying that one chem, i have seen the same strains at 4 weeks into flower grown by guys who say the same, "could of had a bigger yeild if you didn't strip em." and yet when they came here and saw them in person they left pissed cause they said i was lying, that there was in no way that these girls are 4 weeks they have to be 7 or even 8. Cause their plants are also 4 weeks in i wish i had pics of their crop ive seen em. they dont have half the size nor quantity yet.
im not saying your wrong, maybe these guys after 15 years of growing havent learned to grow yet. All i know is i can say honestly that the only thing i believe that will cost me on my yeild is, those i should have let veg a while longer i only let them all veg for 6 weeks. 3 under t5'a and 3 under the hps then i flipped them. wanted small plants fir the first cause i had so many.
As far as defoliating, i will be being a bit less aggressive next time but i will continue to learn how to and when to do it cause frim what im seeing and from all ive read its the way to go.

absolutely ! keep doing what works for you. one day you may find that another habit was responsible for your good yields for thought.

I know marijuana plants want nothing more than to be the healthiest they can be so that their downline seeds are healthy producing stores of energy to feed new copies and spread genes again.

. In nature, if that meant losing many of its leaves to allow more light to each bud I'd notice that for sure. But I notice the opposite in nature, my plants grow way more vegetation than I would suspect, shielding all but the colas from much light, yet bud size and yields and quality is astounding, even in those buds shaded.

each leaf is an engine producing energy for the whole cell, less energy production equals to less health, less vigor too. When my plants are ready to defoliate its because seasonal resources are diminishing, older leaves are relieved of any useful carbs and fall off, just like trees and vegetables and plants all around me.

If that plant decided millions of years ago that the healthiest it could be meant to retain those energy stores and shed them when it decides to.....who am I to argue.

now, if yield is your goal you may be on to something, who knows. theres alot going on though inside that cell besides packing on weight. metabolism is one of those things. you can check your burn with a refractometer and get even more dialed in with comparisons.
they do look good for sure!

While nature doesn't defoliate or prune without the help of man, explain why plants in my yard (not cannabis) grow stronger and fuller after a good pruning.

chemphlegm said:

absolutely ! keep doing what works for you. one day you may find that another habit was responsible for your good yields for thought.

I know marijuana plants want nothing more than to be the healthiest they can be so that their downline seeds are healthy producing stores of energy to feed new copies and spread genes again.

. In nature, if that meant losing many of its leaves to allow more light to each bud I'd notice that for sure. But I notice the opposite in nature, my plants grow way more vegetation than I would suspect, shielding all but the colas from much light, yet bud size and yields and quality is astounding, even in those buds shaded.

each leaf is an engine producing energy for the whole cell, less energy production equals to less health, less vigor too. When my plants are ready to defoliate its because seasonal resources are diminishing, older leaves are relieved of any useful carbs and fall off, just like trees and vegetables and plants all around me.

If that plant decided millions of years ago that the healthiest it could be meant to retain those energy stores and shed them when it decides to.....who am I to argue.

now, if yield is your goal you may be on to something, who knows. theres alot going on though inside that cell besides packing on weight. metabolism is one of those things. you can check your burn with a refractometer and get even more dialed in with comparisons.
they do look good for sure!

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Thanks chem, i agree with the fact that out in nature the plants do need all the foliage they can produce for food production, growth and protection from the elements. But the sun is a whole other animal compared to indoor lights.
A 1000wat hps puts out a fraction of the lumens the sun puts out. So when your plants reach a certain point into the flowering stage they have grow up all they are going to. They have then changed from a weed so to speak into a plant at a cellular level. Everything the plant needs to grow during its veg and early flower has ceased. At that point the plant is now interested in one thing reproduction. In the wild they would at this point receive pollination by a male and produce seeds if not kept seperate from them. the other thing the females do is start to increase bud size as much as possible to be able to priduce the most seeds possible. If they dont get pollen then they just keep getting bigger. But they dont need all that foliage anymore really. they won't be growing anymore than what the have say the 7th week of flower, at that point as im sure you kniw the last 2-3weeks the buds get that smell we all love and the buds just get bigger and bigger. well with iut all the exess leaf the energy that wiuld have gine to them has now been focused on bud production. Indoor lighting can only do so much so you need to do what you can to get the light to what you want to grow.
thats how i see it anyway. thanks again fir the compliment

MickFoster said:

While nature doesn't defoliate or prune without the help of man, explain why plants in my yard (not cannabis) grow stronger and fuller after a good pruning.

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Good question

Alwayslearnin said:

Today starts week five, and what a ride so far! up to this point i have posted alot of pics and have gotten alot if good advice. I also cought attitude when i had my head up my ass about being told my girsl had pm. wich almst instantly gave me pms.
So that being said this week i have been at war with PM and at first the bitch was winning! But after a good doushing with neem oil (minor success) i went and got green cure potassium bicarbonate and gave them a serious doushing last night, almost to the point that I was sure i may have just killed them! At least the la confidential, oh i forgot to mention that the guy i got the clones from kinda pissed me off too. Come to find out the clones were not all la confidential, i ended up with 2 berry ryder out of 6 so that explains a few things that have been going on. like why i had 2 that were not taking the nutes very well burned pretty bad when all the others did not. Anyway, so as i said 2 weeks ago i litterally stripped my plant at the word of an old man who has been growing longer than I've been alive and i wint post the la or the berry cause they aint worth posting yet but the blue dream i have never got the pm, i dont know how but the didnt, anyway here they are entering week 5. im posting a then and now of these two that werent even suppose to live!View attachment 3861918 View attachment 3861924and they still have another 4 weeks minimum everything ive read says 9-10 weeks for these little ladies.

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you sprayed your flowers with NEEM? And green cure will burn your pistils if you use it too strong.

Dr.Nick Riviera said:

you sprayed your flowers with NEEM? And green cure will burn your pistils if you use it too strong.

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Sprayed, i absolutely doused them dripping soaking wet neem! that was 8 days ago. Then as i was checking for any pm on them i saw more starting to form again, so i all but drowned them with greencure potassium bicarbonate. either i loose them from pm or i kill them myself either way i figure what the hell if i dont get it this time ill toss them. What i cant figure out is how the pm hasn't gotten to my 2 blue dream? i did just give them a coating of neem whe i first saw the pm on the others for preventitive measures and they are for now pm free. I will continue the neem treatment on them to be sure it never gets them.
Out if curiosity it sounds like you disagree with the neem on flowering plants. From what i understand its a natural extract that can be used right up till harvest if nessary. Same with the potassium bicarbonate. Right after the doushing i put the fans to em, all three of them also i put the heat to em and dropped the rh for a few hours till they were dry as a bone. Yes i did burn the pistols but the way i see it they have 4 weeks till harvest, if i can get it under control now before the buds get so dense they cant be penetrated with anything.
Anyway nly time will tell, it sucks that i cant start anither crop till i doush out all my equipment inside and out, along with the room has to be cleaned and sealed up better to avoid it in the future.

Alwayslearnin said:

Sprayed, i absolutely doused them dripping soaking wet neem! that was 8 days ago. Then as i was checking for any pm on them i saw more starting to form again, so i all but drowned them with greencure potassium bicarbonate. either i loose them from pm or i kill them myself either way i figure what the hell if i dont get it this time ill toss them. What i cant figure out is how the pm hasn't gotten to my 2 blue dream? i did just give them a coating of neem whe i first saw the pm on the others for preventitive measures and they are for now pm free. I will continue the neem treatment on them to be sure it never gets them.
Out if curiosity it sounds like you disagree with the neem on flowering plants. From what i understand its a natural extract that can be used right up till harvest if nessary. Same with the potassium bicarbonate. Right after the doushing i put the fans to em, all three of them also i put the heat to em and dropped the rh for a few hours till they were dry as a bone. Yes i did burn the pistols but the way i see it they have 4 weeks till harvest, if i can get it under control now before the buds get so dense they cant be penetrated with anything.
Anyway nly time will tell, it sucks that i cant start anither crop till i doush out all my equipment inside and out, along with the room has to be cleaned and sealed up better to avoid it in the future.

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let me know how those neem soaked buds taste. PM is a disease that the plant has, greencure and other pm treatments only stop it temporarily,it always comes back and it really doesn't cure the problem. some plants get pm easier than others, it is the conditions of your growroom that allow it to thrive. Once it has started, you're just band aiding until you disinfect everything,fix the room conditions, and systemically cure the plant or start over with new ones.

oh and BTW
http://www.discoverneem.com/neem-safety-and-side-effects.html

http://www.discoverneem.com/is-neem-oil-treated-marijuana-safe-to-smoke.html

Ill be sure to let you know, you know its confusing to me as far as the pm thing. i realize that its a systemic disease and that once its there its there for good, whats confysing me is that im getting so many answers to the question on hiw to either eraticate or to just as you said put a bandaide to it continuously till harvest.
For example, one person swears by neem oil to get rid if if completely well i tried that and it did not, though others say it did fir them. Another person swore by useing 2%milk mixed 50/50 with dustilled water and they say that not only made it go away but it never came back. Yet anither person swears by the potassium bicarbonate as the answer, another says baking soda, and yet another swears by h2o2 fir pm, overall root health and so on.
So for now doc im just gonna keep on trying different things to see if any of them do as they say they will. So far thiugh id have to say your advice is the most solid and viable cause ive used h2o2, neem oil and now potassium bicarbonate in a couple days we'll see if there is improvement. But as far as the first two either i didnt use enough as far as coverage cause the first two times i used them i only spayed a coating over the infected areas after removing the infected leaf, i only tried the h2o2 once the neem i tried twice the first tome just the infected areas got a spray not a drenching, the second time i made sure all of the plant got it and got it good mainly cause i read several places that in the end it wont leave a bad flavor. that was 8 days ago well 9 now. Last night i saw it again so neem wont get a third try not in flower anyway. This time i went with the potassium bicarbonate and yup i soaked them then put the tenps up to 82f and dropped yhe rh to less than 20% for a few hours this morning they seemed dry and the pistols that died wiped off with new white ones hot on their heals. ive seen alot of grows and ive seen out of control grows as well with plenty of foliage but nothing like these do! It could be cause i made miagi trees out of them but its so thick it almost imposible to get to all of it. so i thinned them out a little and then gave em hell. Like i said before they are all but doomed and im not tring to get big yield anymore, niw they are being used to learn what if anything will help. There maybe no way to completely eraticate PM but i can garentee that i wont be giving these to anyone to smoke, i will most likely process them if i feel like it or o may just cut my losses before it gets on the two that havent got it.
The 6 i have that are infected look so pittiful now that its laughable here see. they all look like that. but the other two are fine here they are.
What really sucks is i cant even start a new till these are dead or done. the blue dream calls for a 9-10 week flowering period though ive seen people in here that do it quicker. how idk but if thats true i should just kill the others and give them all the attention give them each their own light and see what they do.

Honestly I would toss them then completely clean grow space with bleach top to bottom. Including buckets lights everything. Then start over. I wouldnt want to ingest pm or any of the solutions for it.

Also once you used neem oil in flower making concentrates is out of question because the neem oil will end up in extract and it will effect taste and quality.

lio lacidem said:

Also once you used neem oil in flower making concentrates is out of question because the neem oil will end up in extract and it will effect taste and quality.

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Wow, i dont get it everything ive read says neem breaks down after 7-10 days and that unless you neem a plant in flower within the last two weeks you would never know it was used. its an all natural fungicide, sure it smells like ass but like a fart it dissapates

gotta have patience. let them grow and stop fucking with them so much

Alwayslearnin said:

Wow, i dont get it everything ive read says neem breaks down after 7-10 days and that unless you neem a plant in flower within the last two weeks you would never know it was used. its an all natural fungicide, sure it smells like ass but like a fart it dissapates

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No It will be there if you sprayed buds. If you need some more opinions just goto concentrate secyion on here and start a thread called sprayed neem in flower will it affect concentrate. You will get atleast 80% saying your screwed.