Skipping Commerce ( business ) in Legalizing. Your opinion.

I have been one to not go with the flow in the past but is the flow now changing?

Consider that the Federal Government will not allow any Cannabis Business to be legal and open. That means passing laws in California that allows Cannabis Business will automatically draw lawsuits and the courts will naturally suspend any Commerce laws pending the outcome of the courts.

So I have asked before and also lobbied for a non-commerce legalization initiative.

How do you feel about an initiative for 2014 or 2016 that legalizes for people to grow, consume and share in non-commercial ways but doesn't legalize cannabis shops or commercial sales?

Now please understand that I am sympathetic to all positions yet I have been of the position that freedom for the people first opens the door for everything else.

So how do you feel?

Do you feel that if we can't legalize commercial sales that we need to keep the people illegal too?
Do you think that legalization for the people is right or wrong?

The reason the federal government doesn't want commerce is because with money comes the power to change things. They want to be able to bust people for bud when ever they want. Dispensaries if allowed to get powerful enough could lobby the government to reschedule cannabis, making it legal federally. The DEA wants to stop this before they gain that kind of power (and they are getting close to having that power now). Don't give the DEA what they want, if you do, they'll only take more.

i don't know.. name one other substance or service that follows that rule? there is no way the government will create some kind of new commodity system just to facilitate the thing they have always fought against...

ford442 said:

i don't know.. name one other substance or service that follows that rule?

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Oxycontin = heroin
Adderall = meth

You can sell whatever you want as long as you lobby the government to allow it.

there is no way the government will create some kind of new commodity system just to facilitate the thing they have always fought against...

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Government will do what you pay them to do. Look at what corporations are getting away with these days. It's pay to play government.

but you cannot make Oxycontin or Adderall in your basement i don't think.. and they can be sold in regulated quantities..
i believe the proposition is that weed can be manufactured and injested as long as money isn't changed hands.. and i still say that is too much of a regulatory stretch.. it simply won't happen that way since black market trade would be just the same.. plus you are saying - go ahead and manufacture piles of weed, we trust you not to sell it..
i still imagine the day when pot is sold in just as many places as alcohol.. taxed and examined for quality.. for one thing it will create tons of legitimate jobs and open up to growing hemp which will create tons more on top of that..

ford442 said:

i still imagine the day when pot is sold in just as many places as alcohol.. taxed and examined for quality.. for one thing it will create tons of legitimate jobs and open up to growing hemp which will create tons more on top of that..

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It'll happen. Now that dispensaries in Cali are a 2 billion dollar industry (on claimed income, dispensaries usually don't claim most of their income) it's going to be almost impossible for the federal government to get that toothpaste back in the tube. These people can afford real lawyers. If they get together they may have the money to fight the feds right now. A few more years and they'll be able to afford to buy congressmen and pass legislation nationally. It'll happen. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

what needs to happen is industrial hemp - and pot stands directly between the people and the healthiest, most useful plant in the world.. as long as weed is illegal then hemp will stay down - do you all understand what i mean? they might not care about 'marijuana' at all, they know that it is not a 'gateway' to other drugs - but, it is a gateway to growing a crop that could, overnight, replace our reliance on fossil fuels and timber and textile imports, as well as enfranchising our heartland farmers with vital jobs - and i think that that idea is more frightening to the powers that be than any amount of individuals getting high and waving protest signs..

what do you think? if you have read enough about hemp then you know that it has always been the alternative fuel source that big oil does not want. it can be made directly into gasoline at a rate of 500 gallons per acre or 1000 gallons of methanol. it used to be the food crop for people and animals alike. monks were required to eat hemp seed four times a day as it was the most healthy food. then the US went around the world with the 'drug war' policies requiring countries to ban hemp - Bangladesh literally translates to 'cannabis land people' - they grew fields of hemp for thousands of years and when the US forced them to stop all of their topsoil eroded away and now they are decimated by flooding and starvation. i have read about cannabis for about 17 years and it only now seems clear to me that hemp is a huge part of the equation.. i can sleep better at night thinking that obama is in bed with big oil rather than the chainsaw wielding mexican cartels..

does this make sense? california was on the verge of growing mass quantities of hemp - now this happens at the very moment Brown was required to sign the hemp bill and he vetoed it! because hemp is illegal at a federal level and he did not want farmers to be face federal criminal prosecution.. we have at least 500,000,000 acres that could be used for hemp.. when they really needed actual resources - WWII - we had Hemp for Victory - and as soon as things went back to the status quo - good bye renewable resources and hello unending devotion to petrochemicals..

i look forward to your responses..

Ernst said:

I have been one to not go with the flow in the past but is the flow now changing?

Consider that the Federal Government will not allow any Cannabis Business to be legal and open. That means passing laws in California that allows Cannabis Business will automatically draw lawsuits and the courts will naturally suspend any Commerce laws pending the outcome of the courts.

So I have asked before and also lobbied for a non-commerce legalization initiative.

How do you feel about an initiative for 2014 or 2016 that legalizes for people to grow, consume and share in non-commercial ways but doesn't legalize cannabis shops or commercial sales?

Now please understand that I am sympathetic to all positions yet I have been of the position that freedom for the people first opens the door for everything else.

So how do you feel?

Do you feel that if we can't legalize commercial sales that we need to keep the people illegal too?
Do you think that legalization for the people is right or wrong?

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Do you think that legalization for the people is right ? Yes

I will tell you the exact reason why legalization will not work. If the government was too for what ever reason legalize marijuana in any way shape or form then anyone ever convicted of marijuana use would be free and the government would have to give some sort of compensation to those affected. The higher ups in the government have this mind set "If we legalized marijuana then the public would think we have wasted all their money for the past century" And even though they have wasted our money and they know they have they can't be seen by the general public to have wasted the publics money so that is why no legalization will happen in the US. You will see this in any business that makes a mistake that costs so much money it is unbelievable that they will just try to cover it up by saying it is working and we are successful so that the general public that only sees the headlines will think "well good on them they're dong something good and my tax dollars are spent well"

Well friends, I understand that Commerce is a constant. It happens if legal or illegal but it is the firm domain of the Federal Government.

However, is allowing the citizen to have cannabis on a State level something we can do?

Serious question.

Let the FEDS make a few more token busts, won't stop the steamroller headed at them now, too late my friends ! Their last few sabre rattles will be loud but as we can all see, they cannot, & will not win in the long run. It has been a long fight but we have won ! It just takes the FEDS a bit longer to accept !

Ernst said:

Well friends, I understand that Commerce is a constant. It happens if legal or illegal but it is the firm domain of the Federal Government.

However, is allowing the citizen to have cannabis on a State level something we can do?

Serious question.

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Nope as federal law will always overule any state law. See the way it works is the state is part of the country and when any mayor or commissioner etc. of a state is put in charge sign a contract which allows them to change their state laws assuming they do not conflict in any way shape or form with the federal acts that are on place. Now if it came down to the mayor taking a stance against the US he would be given 3 options one is to be a sook and give in to the federal laws, two is too resign or lastly and my personal favourite which has never happened in the US but for his state to become a form of a rebuplic in which he would be the administator or that province in which he could make any laws up that he wanted.

Well, at this point a lot of states allow medical use & millions are licensed to use. I dont see the feds going after the state laws ? just the most blatant abuser are getting busted(clubs ,dispensaries etc that dont follow local regs.

Yeah that is what I am thinking too..

As long as we avoid the commerce..

We have to do like prop 215 where sales will be vague.

That is what I am asking here.

Oh btw I think a lot of dispensaries are closing without busts.

Actually the FEDS are going after it now closing medical dispensiaries in cali.

I am happy to say I BREAK THE LAW EVERYDAY and I have nothing to hide. Honestly read my post at the bottom of the first page it is the one reason why marijuana will never be legalized well not in our lifetimes anyway

Ernst said:

However, is allowing the citizen to have cannabis on a State level something we can do?

Serious question.

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Sort of, but if the feds can still come in and bust us whenever they like, it's not really legalization. State level legalization just makes it easier for feds to bust people because legalization creates a paper trail.

Ernst said:

Yeah that is what I am thinking too..

As long as we avoid the commerce..

We have to do like prop 215 where sales will be vague.

That is what I am asking here.

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You can't avoid commerce. Not everyone is/can grow their own. Bud is going to get sold no matter what. The question is how it's going to be sold, not IF it's going to get sold. Ignoring the topic of sales, or having it vague like prop 215 only leads to more people getting busted because the laws aren't clear enough.

Ernst said:

I have been one to not go with the flow in the past but is the flow now changing?

Consider that the Federal Government will not allow any Cannabis Business to be legal and open. That means passing laws in California that allows Cannabis Business will automatically draw lawsuits and the courts will naturally suspend any Commerce laws pending the outcome of the courts.

So I have asked before and also lobbied for a non-commerce legalization initiative.

How do you feel about an initiative for 2014 or 2016 that legalizes for people to grow, consume and share in non-commercial ways but doesn't legalize cannabis shops or commercial sales?

Now please understand that I am sympathetic to all positions yet I have been of the position that freedom for the people first opens the door for everything else.

So how do you feel?

Do you feel that if we can't legalize commercial sales that we need to keep the people illegal too?
Do you think that legalization for the people is right or wrong?

Click to expand...

The only correct move.
And Give it time. Then you could go with a commercial model

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see how the market likes my breeding by being a seed vendor.

Still it is this issue of sales that holds us back. I do believe the Federal Government needs to keep sales illegal for a bit longer.

So then are we divided Dan? Do we have the support of everyone to break this issue up and pass it piece by piece?

Granting right to our common citizen would lay a foundation. What kind of foundation would it be Guys? Can we build on it?