Should I add Kelp Meal & Neem Meal to Soil Mix?

I just got in my kelp and neem meal and was wondering if you guys recommnend adding it to my soil mix. Ive heard great things about these but I already have allot of stuff I just do not want to overdo it.

The soil is currently cooking and has the following mix. It will cook for about 4 weeks or so.

1.5 CU of FFOF
10Qt of Chunky Perlite
4 1/2 LBs of ECW
1 1/4 Cups Espoma Dolomite Lime
1 1/5 Cups of Espoma Plant Tone
1 1/5 Cups of Happy Frog Cavern Culture(bat and seabird guano, rock phosphate and Mychorrihizae)
.25 Cup of Glacial Rock Dust
1.5 Cups of Alfalfa Meal
1.5 Cups of Blood Meal
1.5 Cups of Fish Bone Meal

Looks good but I'm with @DrWho who's cautious over the use of neem cake in soil

it knocks the good bacteria too much,

Kelp I'm a fan off as in it aids fungal growth as does the Fish Bone Meal

I'd cook that bunch for 6-8 weeks depending on local temperature recording the internal temp daily

you can never get enough of the fungal's

good luck

Neem works great as a top dressing late in veg or early in flower if your plants look a little pale or lacking nitrogen. A few pinches or just a couple teaspoons is usually enough.

Kelp is great too. If you don't want to mix it in the soil you can soak some in water and make kelp tea. It's good for foliar spray before you're gonna cut clones. Or for a K boost in the 2nd half flower when the edges of your leaves fade.

I'd never use Ocean Forest but thats just me...thats the only thing that worries me in this mix...also seems like way too much lime for only 1.5 cuft. IMO only around a qtr cup per cuft is necessary

vostok said:

Looks good but I'm with @DrWho who's cautious over the use of neem cake in soil

it knocks the good bacteria too much,

Kelp I'm a fan off as in it aids fungal growth as does the Fish Bone Meal

I'd cook that bunch for 6-8 weeks depending on local temperature recording the internal temp daily

you can never get enough of the fungal's

good luck

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I checked the temps today at it was at 84 degrees F and Humidity at 86%

also wanted to know how wet the soil should be. I hear it should be just a bit damp but cant really gauge it well

vostok said:

Looks good but I'm with @DrWho who's cautious over the use of neem cake in soil

it knocks the good bacteria too much,

Kelp I'm a fan off as in it aids fungal growth as does the Fish Bone Meal

I'd cook that bunch for 6-8 weeks depending on local temperature recording the internal temp daily

you can never get enough of the fungal's

good luck

Click to expand...

Why are you cautious of neem cake?

I tend to think this mix looks pretty hot as of right now. Lots of high nitrogen sources in there, so I would probably hold off on the kelp and neem for now. Like others have said above, a simple tea (1 teaspoon of each left to sit for 24 hours in a gallon of water and stirring occasionally worked well for me) or top dress of these inputs and some ewc/compost would probably be plenty for this round. After this grow I would add them both in to the re-amend.

I dont understand the skepticism around the neem meal. I guess I should look further into it, but it seems to be a quality addition to the mixes. I have never had a pest and my spring tails and worms seem to love working through the meal. I can't comment on what it does inside the plant if that's the concern, but I have done a couple simple little scattering of amendments in my worm bins/sitting soil totes on different occasions. The neem is always the first to form mycelium and then be consumed by the microbes at work. Alfalfa was a close second in my "trials" but kelp is by the slowest to show some action.

Again I ramble and am by no means a voice of authority on this subject, just my two cents. Hopefully others will chime in for you and I wish you nothing but success in your upcoming grow in that mix sir.

do you think I should cut it down a little with something? Maybe mix in more soil and perlite if the mix seems too hot. Or let it cook for a few weeks longer?

Dee Muney said:

do you think I should cut it down a little with something? Maybe mix in more soil and perlite if the mix seems too hot. Or let it cook for a few weeks longer?

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I'm not the best person to answer this, but it just seems like a lot of things into the already amended ffof. What I truly enjoy about the organic route is that there are tons of options that all deliver similar nutrients to your soil. That said, at this point, I would just roll with what you have now after a proper month or so cook to let everything settle down a bit. Use this run as a sort of trial and error type thing moving forward. If you see great results, you can mimic it with slight adjustments of adding the neem/kelp from the start moving forward, or if you struggle a little with things, you could take a more delicate approach with your next batch. Either way, it seems like you have the proper things to be able to maintain and fix any issues that should arise (if any) down the road.

Do you already have the kelp and neem meal? Also, do you have some extra ewc/compost on hand? I remember reading that a simple kelp/alfalfa tea is pretty universal from veg through early flower to cover any deficiencies that may arise. Can also go the top dress route with those and achieve the same results in a slower more even distribution.

Again, I am nowhere near as experienced or knowledgeable as a lot of other members on this forum, but just my take on things.

loco41 said:

I'm not the best person to answer this, but it just seems like a lot of things into the already amended ffof. What I truly enjoy about the organic route is that there are tons of options that all deliver similar nutrients to your soil. That said, at this point, I would just roll with what you have now after a proper month or so cook to let everything settle down a bit. Use this run as a sort of trial and error type thing moving forward. If you see great results, you can mimic it with slight adjustments of adding the neem/kelp from the start moving forward, or if you struggle a little with things, you could take a more delicate approach with your next batch. Either way, it seems like you have the proper things to be able to maintain and fix any issues that should arise (if any) down the road.

Do you already have the kelp and neem meal? Also, do you have some extra ewc/compost on hand? I remember reading that a simple kelp/alfalfa tea is pretty universal from veg through early flower to cover any deficiencies that may arise. Can also go the top dress route with those and achieve the same results in a slower more even distribution.

Again, I am nowhere near as experienced or knowledgeable as a lot of other members on this forum, but just my take on things.

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I really appreciate your input on this as it really is a learning experience. I do have the kelp and neem on hand and actually just got another 15 lbs of wiggle worm EWC. I plan on adding maybe another two or three pounds into the mix, totaling to 7 or 8 lbs of EWC.

Dee Muney said:

do you think I should cut it down a little with something? Maybe mix in more soil and perlite if the mix seems too hot. Or let it cook for a few weeks longer?

Click to expand...

I would cut this down a bit with either more base soil, coco coir, and/or perlite; after it’s done cooking. Wait the full 4 weeks. 1 cup of each amendment is plenty enough for an already hot soil like FFOF. You are on the verge of overdoing it.. probably could have gotten away with ocean forest out the bag as is with maybe just some extra worm castings added in.
Kelp? Yes neem seed meal? Yes. But you can add these in later on for the next run or after the first harvest to recycle the soil. Kelp contains probiotics and is good to add in aacts. Neem is not only a great source of veganic npk it can help control insects like gnats and thrips. The hands down most important ingredient in any organic soil is compost; sometimes in a heavily amended mix like this EWC is all that is needed.

Richard Drysift said:

I would cut this down a bit with either more base soil, coco coir, and/or perlite; after it’s done cooking. Wait the full 4 weeks. 1 cup of each amendment is plenty enough for an already hot soil like FFOF. You are on the verge of overdoing it.. probably could have gotten away with ocean forest out the bag as is with maybe just some extra worm castings added in.
Kelp? Yes neem seed meal? Yes. But you can add these in later on for the next run or after the first harvest to recycle the soil. Kelp contains probiotics and is good to add in aacts. Neem is not only a great source of veganic npk it can help control insects like gnats and thrips. The hands down most important ingredient in any organic soil is compost; sometimes in a heavily amended mix like this EWC is all that is needed.

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There's someone I have obtained a lot of my perspectives from.. He can show/advise you through more experience driven results than I ever could.

Were did you get recipe ? ... agree about ffof @Richard Drysift advice ... FFOF / kelp meal / EWC and added myco ... and its ready to go.

plant tome / guano / AND blood meal might be nitro heavy but will see how well it works out on your grows.

I’ve done almost this exact mix For a few years. I used 50/50 happy frog and ocean Forrest. No blood meal or guano though.. And I used Down To Earth Bio-Live as my all purpose fert with added Kelp meal alfalfa meal fish bone meal and rock dust.

I let it cook for 4 weeks and had great results. After 30 days of veg I too dressed EWC kelp meal and fish bone meal. Watered with compost teas recharge and mammoth p.

I had good results.

I heard ffof isn’t organic anymore... Read that in posts from years before. Anyone know now?

Formula is the same as far as I know. Monsanto bought fox farms a few years ago and since they are apparently among the most vile corporate entities on earth many people hate on their shit. Don’t think there is an OMRI label on ocean forest but I’m fairly certain it is an organic mix.
Added 3 cu ft of FFOF as base soil to my living mix just before building my final bloom pots along with fresh EWC and chicken manure last run...plus 2 Jobes AP spikes. Plants were healthy through a full 10 week bloom cycle; water only. If they changed the recipe they aren’t telling anyone; seems like the same stuff to me.

Richard Drysift said:

I would cut this down a bit with either more base soil, coco coir, and/or perlite; after it’s done cooking. Wait the full 4 weeks. 1 cup of each amendment is plenty enough for an already hot soil like FFOF. You are on the verge of overdoing it.. probably could have gotten away with ocean forest out the bag as is with maybe just some extra worm castings added in.
Kelp? Yes neem seed meal? Yes. But you can add these in later on for the next run or after the first harvest to recycle the soil. Kelp contains probiotics and is good to add in aacts. Neem is not only a great source of veganic npk it can help control insects like gnats and thrips. The hands down most important ingredient in any organic soil is compost; sometimes in a heavily amended mix like this EWC is all that is needed.

Click to expand...

I got another 1.5 CU of FFOF and plan on mixing it with some more perlite. So you are saying to add this into the soil mix AFTER it is done cooking? I also plan on throwing in some more EWC

Yes and yes. If you have very young clones or seedlings you can just use the ocean forest mix as it is. Save the heavily amended mix for when they get to size.

Richard Drysift said:

Formula is the same as far as I know. Monsanto bought fox farms a few years ago and since they are apparently among the most vile corporate entities on earth many people hate on their shit. Don’t think there is an OMRI label on ocean forest but I’m fairly certain it is an organic mix.
Added 3 cu ft of FFOF as base soil to my living mix just before building my final bloom pots along with fresh EWC and chicken manure last run...plus 2 Jobes AP spikes. Plants were healthy through a full 10 week bloom cycle; water only. If they changed the recipe they aren’t telling anyone; seems like the same stuff to me.

Click to expand...

Do you have any proof that Monsanto bought Fox Farm?

FoxFarms is not owned by Monsanto. That's a very old rumor. They are still family owned and operated since 1984.