Senate confirms Gina Haspel as CIA director

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
" while saying that torture is used in other countries,
I'm SOOO fucking sick of people saying today in the USA, that well, other countries are worse.(we sound like Israel)

Of course other nations are worse, so fucking what?

We are supposed to the most enlightened country in the fucking world, according to global opinion, but instead we are receding from a beacon of hope and light, to this dark dismal place where we ignore climate change, murder our school children weekly it seems, where it's black male citizens are disproportionally killed by law enforcement, (countdown for the next one start's now),tries to ban Muslims and anyone that can't speak American (shit, 3/4 of Trump supporters can't speak/write proper English, ignorant fucks that they are) where women are still 2nd class citizens in the workplace, and 10's of millions live in poverty and on the streets in the richest country in the world, and the GOP wants more draconian measures installed, too pay for their tax breaks and fucked up wars.

And you know whom you can blame most of it on, if not all?

Take a guess, and it ain't fucking Obama or the Democrats

Vote this November, please, and help to stop this slide downhill that the USA is on now, or we will be truly, irrecoverably screwed
 
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Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I'm SOOO fucking sick of people saying today in the USA, that well, other countries are worse.(we sound like Israel)

Of course other nations are worse, so fucking what?

We are supposed to the most enlightened country in the fucking world, according to global opinion, but instead we are receding from a beacon of hope and light, to this dark dismal place where we ignore climate change, murder our school children weekly it seems, where it's black male citizens are disproportionally killed by law enforcement, (countdown for the next one start's now),tries to ban Muslims and anyone that can't speak American (shit, 3/4 of Trump supporters can't speak/write proper English, ignorant fucks that they are) where women are still 2nd class citizens in the workplace, and 10's of millions live in poverty and on the streets in the richest country in the world, and the GOP wants more draconian measures installed, too pay for their tax breaks and fucked up wars.

And you know whom you can blame most of it on, if not all?

Take a guess, and it ain't fucking Obama or the Democrats

Vote this November, please, and help to stop this slide downhill that the USA is on now, or we will be truly, irrecoverably screwed
Democrats are complicit. I think it's a mistake to chalk it all up to Republicans. The reality is it's not really about party affiliation so much as it's about corporate donors. Corporations have taken control of both sides of our 2 party government, so politicians listen to them while they sow fear and division among citizens. Fear of the other and the unwillingness to engage in actual debate with the goal of solving problems and not just boosting your own ego perpetuates it.

Republicans hold most of the blame, but we should be honest about this problem and face it head on. Ignoring it will only make it worse. Establishment Democrats still hold most of the power within the Democratic party, though that's slowly being eroded by actual progressives winning elections. What that means is when the likely blue wave happens later this year in the midterms as a response to Trump's administration and the GOP controlled congress, Democrats will have a big opportunity to push for progressive legislation. If they don't, and they try to claim compromise is the best solution, just like Obama did in 2008, they will lose all the momentum gained from the past 2 years and we'll be going into 2020 with questions about success when it should be a layup, all things considered up to this point.

Ralph Nader made an appearance on one of the cable news networks recently and argued the point that the American people largely agree with the Democratic platform, progressive ideals, and yet they consistently lose elections to far right candidates. That shouldn't happen. But when you understand that far right ideals and policy positions benefit corporations and the 1%, so naturally, those in the 1% and who control corporations are likely to then fund far right Republican politicians (since they will represent their interests and the return on their investment), it's easy to see why the narrative perceived by some is that the country is actually more conservative when it's not. Mainstream media is run by corporations, corporations have a vested interest in promoting corporate values represented by the Republican party.

Without the help from corporate Democrats, Haspel wouldn't have been confirmed as CIA director and the bandaid regulations enacted after the crash in 2008 wouldn't have been repealed effectively ensuring the next one.
 
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Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Democrats are complicit. I think it's a mistake to chalk it all up to Republicans. The reality is it's not really about party affiliation so much as it's about corporate donors. Corporations have taken control of both sides of our 2 party government, so politicians listen to them while they sow fear and division among citizens. Fear of the other and the unwillingness to engage in actual debate with the goal of solving problems and not just boosting your own ego perpetuates it.

Republicans hold most of the blame, but we should be honest about this problem and face it head on. Ignoring it will only make it worse. Establishment Democrats still hold most of the power within the Democratic party, though that's slowly being eroded by actual progressives winning elections. What that means is when the likely blue wave happens later this year in the midterms as a response to Trump's administration and the GOP controlled congress, Democrats will have a big opportunity to push for progressive legislation. If they don't, and they try to claim compromise is the best solution, just like Obama did in 2008, they will lose all the momentum gained from the past 2 years and we'll be going into 2020 with questions about success when it should be a layup, all things considered up to this point.

Ralph Nader made an appearance on one of the cable news networks recently and argued the point that the American people largely agree with the Democratic platform, progressive ideals, and yet they consistently lose elections to far right candidates. That shouldn't happen. But when you understand that far right ideals and policy positions benefit corporations and the 1%, so naturally, those in the 1% and who control corporations are likely to then fund far right Republican politicians (since they will represent their interests and the return on their investment), it's easy to see why the narrative perceived by some is that the country is actually more conservative when it's not. Mainstream media is run by corporations, corporations have a vested interest in promoting corporate values represented by the Republican party.

Without the help from corporate Democrats, Haspel wouldn't have been confirmed as CIA director and the bandaid regulations enacted after the crash in 2008 wouldn't have been repealed effectively ensuring the next one.
Good argument, be back later too discuss, been trimming all day, need a bone break. :)
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Democrats are complicit. I think it's a mistake to chalk it all up to Republicans.
Yea, any Democrat that breaks part line is complicit to sucking up too the failures that Republicans present regularly, I agree

I just would like to see something, actually anything positive done by the Republicans that is actually beneficial to the majority of Americans, not just corporations and the well off, saying wait for it to fucking trickle down, and benefit the less fortunate.

Been listening too that shit since Reagan. Didn't work then, isn't working now, and never fucking will, but the American public still buy's into it.
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
. Establishment Democrats still hold most of the power within the Democratic party, though that's slowly being eroded by actual progressives winning elections. What that means is when the likely blue wave happens later this year in the midterms as a response to Trump's administration and the GOP controlled congress, Democrats will have a big opportunity to push for progressive legislation. If they don't, and they try to claim compromise is the best solution, just like Obama did in 2008, they will lose all the momentum gained from the past 2 years and we'll be going into 2020 with questions about success when it should be a layup, all things considered up to this point.
I wholeheartedly agree that now, if there has ever been a time to shake up and really move the flaccid Democratic party into real action is now.
Sanders showed the DNC that his ideas have a weight that can not be readily dismissed as a pipe dream for a few hippies.
Progressive activism has an opportunity right now (thanks Trump) that hasn't been around for awhile, to show what can actually be accomplished
There is always a positive from a negative if you look long enough, and I think Trump and his actions are a big wake up call, showing America, like really showing America, how fucked up the GOP is.
Come November, the Democrats/Independents united under all flags (Progressive/Liberal/Moderate) should (have too) take back this country from the insanity being exhibited by the Republicans and their mentor, that pos Donald Trump.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Democrats are complicit. I think it's a mistake to chalk it all up to Republicans. The reality is it's not really about party affiliation so much as it's about corporate donors. Corporations have taken control of both sides of our 2 party government, so politicians listen to them while they sow fear and division among citizens. Fear of the other and the unwillingness to engage in actual debate with the goal of solving problems and not just boosting your own ego perpetuates it.

Republicans hold most of the blame, but we should be honest about this problem and face it head on. Ignoring it will only make it worse. Establishment Democrats still hold most of the power within the Democratic party, though that's slowly being eroded by actual progressives winning elections. What that means is when the likely blue wave happens later this year in the midterms as a response to Trump's administration and the GOP controlled congress, Democrats will have a big opportunity to push for progressive legislation. If they don't, and they try to claim compromise is the best solution, just like Obama did in 2008, they will lose all the momentum gained from the past 2 years and we'll be going into 2020 with questions about success when it should be a layup, all things considered up to this point.

Ralph Nader made an appearance on one of the cable news networks recently and argued the point that the American people largely agree with the Democratic platform, progressive ideals, and yet they consistently lose elections to far right candidates. That shouldn't happen. But when you understand that far right ideals and policy positions benefit corporations and the 1%, so naturally, those in the 1% and who control corporations are likely to then fund far right Republican politicians (since they will represent their interests and the return on their investment), it's easy to see why the narrative perceived by some is that the country is actually more conservative when it's not. Mainstream media is run by corporations, corporations have a vested interest in promoting corporate values represented by the Republican party.

Without the help from corporate Democrats, Haspel wouldn't have been confirmed as CIA director and the bandaid regulations enacted after the crash in 2008 wouldn't have been repealed effectively ensuring the next one.
Laughing too hard at the idea that the Democrats are complicit with Republicans.

That said, 2019 is most likely to see the House in control of Democrats and the Senate with one or two seat majority in charge of the Republicans. Trump, who knows? My opinion is he's going to finish his term.

What do you see Democrats to be able to do in this scenario?
 
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Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Laughing too hard at the idea that the Democrats are complicit with Republicans.
Without Democrats, Haspel wouldn't have been confirmed

How are they not complicit?

That said, 2019 is most likely to see the House in control of Democrats and the Senate with one or two seat majority in charge of Republicans. Trump, who knows? My opinion is he's going to finish his term.

What do you see Democrats to be able to do in this scenario?
Quite a bit to keep control. If they can manage to keep control until 2020 by pushing a strong progressive message, then an actual progressive wins in 2020, they will be able to do a lot. If the Democratic party pushes Republican light to appeal to their donors and pretend to appeal to the voters, they'll likely end up exactly where they started from looking towards 2022 and 2024, and their Democratic constituents will suffer because of it
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Without Democrats, Haspel wouldn't have been confirmed

How are they not complicit?


Quite a bit to keep control. If they can manage to keep control until 2020 by pushing a strong progressive message, then an actual progressive wins in 2020, they will be able to do a lot. If the Democratic party pushes Republican light to appeal to their donors and pretend to appeal to the voters, they'll likely end up exactly where they started from looking towards 2022 and 2024, and their Democratic constituents will suffer because of it
Agree this is a good time to test progressive legislation. What do you mean by Republican light?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Without Democrats, Haspel wouldn't have been confirmed

How are they not complicit?
Six Democratic senators voted for Haspel

All Democrats are tarred for their votes? Does that mean Bernie Sanders should resign? After all, he caucuses with Democrats and wants to be their leader.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Where do you get that idea?
"Democrats are complicit.

Without Democrats, Haspel wouldn't have been confirmed

How are they not complicit?"


You don't discriminate in those statements. When you say "Democrats", the reader can reasonably take your words to mean all of them.

If you don't mean all of them then maybe you could narrow it down? For instance, instead of "Without Democrats" if you don't mean ALL Democrats then you could say "Without the Democrats that sided with Republicans" or "Without six turncoat Democrats" I would have read your statement differently.


 
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