Scientist says all cannabis basically the same?

Xs121

Well-Known Member
Good thread

I know several years ago if you said you where going to dust anything

People labeled you a stupid pollen chucker and that you would muddle the gene pool
And only people like mr nice (shanti) where considered real breeders.



Now every one is chucking and i will be too soon haha

I should have started years ago :)

But in growing all the vareties i have (in limited numbers remember it used to be illegal )

I never found one that straight up knocked me over or blew.me away (i smoke like a choo chooo train) no matter how good they where after a zip or 2 im used to it haha sure i found stuuf that i kept around but

I still havent smoke a weed that was life changing ....let me know if you guys find it or where to get it ;)
Don't start me about buds that's been buried for over a week. It's not genetics anymore or breeding. lol
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
98% of the weed is the same, Then you get stuff like real DP that will fuck your shit up with THCv and 6% terpenes, still tastes and smells like weed, then if you haven't discovered the flavoured weeds, you are missing out. Fruity cheese, chocolaty coffees, grapes, citrus, guava etc. Some are only flavors while others translate trough even to taste.
I'd say there is more variation in cannabis than in roses.
I'm not saying there are not variations and different effects etc. Just they are basically the same, same as roses, tomatoes, potatoes. You don't use a Dutch Cream spud to make chips (fries) for eg.

I don't mind the chocolates (grew a choc mint OG) but may fav atm is Strawberry amnesia. I also really like the lemon tang of a Aussie Blue hash oil I made. Sharp. I like the more Sativa effects.

I know your up on the DP and id love to grow a wicked DP. Any breeder you would recommend for legit seeds?
 
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whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
I think there is something to what they are saying. There has not been enough research to say for sure that this strain is good for this or that strain is good for that. I think this is the point of the article. I agree to some extent that the "industry" has no problem telling you bullshit to make you feel better about trying a certain strain. A budtender is there to sort of close the deal; they really don't care what happens after you leave the store.
Of course each strain contains different terpenes, flavors, and effects because the levels of active compounds contained therein vary greatly from one to another. This IMO is more due to the result of experimental overbreeding than controlled strain engineering. Then again...
I've never bought weed legally. Nor have I ever asked the dude bringing me weed if this will this help with my back pain? Dude would probly say yes to anything as long as you had the cash you owed him. The dude is probably even just a friend of a friend; not a dealer. I judge weed like most do: by looks, smell, taste, and potency. If I find myself in front of the fridge every 10 mins looking for snacks I know I've got some fire. I think most stoners think the same...if it tastes good and gets you baked it's good weed. I've always thought the medical thing was bullshit because I don't think there has to be something wrong with you to smoke. I always thought that while it is medicine it is not meant to treat any specific affliction; only to improve your life and overall health & well being.
Our knowledge is growing in cannabis. It was thought at one time that thc was the only psychoactive cannabinoid. Now they there are four that are.

There are over 60 cannabinoids all together. I'm all for research. There is some out there. I believe certian cannabinoids by themselves or any combination is capable of treating a lot of disease. Certian ones lower blood pressure. I had high blood pressure. I noticed certian strains lowered and some even raise it.

Some are showing promise in helping control blood glucose.

Cancers and all type of illness. My wife uses cannabis for diabetic neuropathy and an autoimmune disease. It works very well.

We have an endocannabinoid system for a reason and certian ailments could very well be a cannabinoid deffeincey.
 

TimBar

Well-Known Member
IMHO it will be up to indivdual home growers, like yall here, to try breeding and seeding for more "old-time" qualities. Big commercial growers wont be interested in anything that doesnt fit their business needs ( pure profit). Quick grow and turn-over.
Exactly what I have done a few times, I want a looser bud (mold resistant) - Pine/Hash smell and taste - Pinene actually has been proven not to diminish short term memory. Medium stretch. Can handle a bit more water at times(I am not that good). Sticky, sticky flowers, A golden looking dried bud.

Not sure comercial growers would ever want that. But I do.
 

morgwar

Well-Known Member
1. Sulphur, coffee, salty, burnt, skunk terpenes.
2. Completely frosted sugar leaves to eliminate trimming.
4. 3d menorah/ like structure/self topping
5. Heavy feeder,
6. mold resistant.
7. relaxed yet motivating
8. antidepressant
9. 8 month flower under ideal conditions

I've pulled this all together. From the best dieselchem, ak47, and skunk genotypes in seed and clone form.
I've got a few years of selection to tweak and stabilize for homogeneity.
I'll be happy when 75% of seeds pop as one genotype. 100% is to inbred for long term imo
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
1. Sulphur, coffee, salty, burnt, skunk terpenes.
2. Completely frosted sugar leaves to eliminate trimming.
4. 3d menorah/ like structure/self topping
5. Heavy feeder,
6. mold resistant.
7. relaxed yet motivating
8. antidepressant
9. 8 month flower under ideal conditions

I've pulled this all together. From the best dieselchem, ak47, and skunk genotypes in seed and clone form.
I've got a few years of selection to tweak and stabilize for homogeneity.
I'll be happy when 75% of seeds pop as one genotype. 100% is to inbred for long term imo
Man, its honestly so refreshing to read the word "genotype"
I bite my tongue, everytime i have to refer to the genos, as "phenos" here.
 

Bad Karma

Well-Known Member
1. Sulphur, coffee, salty, burnt, skunk terpenes.
2. Completely frosted sugar leaves to eliminate trimming.
4. 3d menorah/ like structure/self topping
5. Heavy feeder,
6. mold resistant.
7. relaxed yet motivating
8. antidepressant
9. 8 month flower under ideal conditions

I've pulled this all together. From the best dieselchem, ak47, and skunk genotypes in seed and clone form.
I've got a few years of selection to tweak and stabilize for homogeneity.
I'll be happy when 75% of seeds pop as one genotype. 100% is to inbred for long term imo
Thumbs up for properly using the term genotype instead of the often misused phenotype. Thank you for paying attention!
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Phenotype is correct as well. Why wouldn't it be. Phenotype are observable characteristics.

So two different looking plants would have the same genotype but still be different phenotypes as genotype is the set of genes the plant carries.

Genotype and environment can effect phenotype.

Meh. We all know what was meant though.
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Phenotype is correct as well. Why wouldn't it be. Phenotype are observable characteristics.

So two different looking plants would have the same genotype but still be different phenotypes as genotype is the set of genes the plant carries.

Genotype and environment can effect phenotype.

Meh. We all know what was meant though.
I believe for breeding purposes, it extremely important to know them.
Otherwise it's just chucking pollen, and not caring.
It's happening all too often with breeders now.
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how else you would be choosing strong genes?
The genotype are the ones to breed.
Ok. Sure.

Now tell me how you determine which characteristics are genotype and which are phenotype.

Genotype is the set of genes carried. Two different looking offspring are the same genotype.
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
I consider them phenotypes.

Genotype is just a set of genetic material carried.

Phenotype are the actual physical expression like shape and size.
View attachment 4142643

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/genotype-phenotype/
Do you realize, you and I are phenotypes as well?
We are phenotypes of the same genes of our ancestors.
Maybe the two of us are distantly related if it only started with Adam and Eve? Plants are the same.
If plants started as Adam and Eve as well. What if you knew exactly which genes were Adams, and which Genes were Eve's?
You could reverse breed. To an OG Adam, and an OG Eve. But you can't inbreed either. So we have to introduce other plants, that are thousands of generations apart. But have the same genotypes.

Maybe it didn't just start with Adam and Eve? Maybe there are several different Genotypes?
But it's the genotype traits, we want to harness to breed. Because theoretically we can recreate any strain on earth. Create brand new ones as well. It's a breeders dream.
It almost guarantees stable strains and traits as well. Minimum phenotypes to a strain. Just the ones you want.

https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-basic-cannabis-knowledge-genotype-and-phenotype-n265
 

Xs121

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how else you would be choosing strong genes?
The genotype are the ones to breed.
In a DNA, it consist of thousands of genes (Genomes), most of these genes are common to both plants and animals(including human). The markers are what separate plant from animals. The markers(Genomes) separate a tomato from cannabis. And supposedly, there is a marker that separate Og Kush from White Widow.

There's no way you can breed based on the genomes....unless you own a or have access to gene sequencing operation, well you can pay for the analysis. If you have, then you might as well play with genetic manipulation.

However you don't have everything analyze every time you have to breed (unless you're Bill Gates) and this is where Phenotypes comes handy. Phenotypes are just the physical expression of those genes (Genotype). Not all of them are express physically but for breeding purposes genes that are express physically are good enough to achieve what we want to produce.

Seems easy enough.

The problem with breeding is not the genetic make-up of your parent material.....The problem lies in the method/technique of breeding <<=== this alone here is responsible for the mess our cannabis is in.

There are 2 major mode of breeding
1. Inbreeding or Line Breeding
2. Outcrossing

A breeding program can be either or the combination of both

Our cannabis breeding problem is 2 front

1. Those who practice Inbreeding....would inbred the same bloodline, often brother with sister multiple times. Obviously, there is a great chance that 2 same bad genes (or alleles if you really want to be technical) will be pass to the offspring. Remember that some genes are not express physically? Some of these genes might have something to do with low yield or vulnerability to disease, etc.. Later on, you would wonder why such a great bloodline after a few generations suddenly start dying during a temperature change while its great grand-parent is able to handle such issue. This issue is called inbreeding depression/coeffiecient. There are techniques, that would minimize the chance of this happening and still maintain healthy offsprings both in phenotype and genotype.

2. Outcrossing....this is the common breeding practice we have. Why? Because its the easiest and no brainer and comes with benefit (pollen chuckers). The benefit of Outcrossing is called Heterosis. When you cross two unrelated strain, you created a hybrid (F1). If your hybrid goes through heterosis, then your growth is better than average, your yield is much better than average.....in other words everything is better. There's no denying that. And this is whether intentionally or ignorantly, breeders start to hype their F1, because it is simply better (potency, frosty, whatever). In terms of its genetic make up, all the gene pairings are complementary to each other (Genetic diversity). The problem here is the moment you have the plant cross with something else....you lose your original hybrid and start a new F1 again (a hybrid of a hybrid), now whether you have heterosis or not, depends on the new genetic makeup. F1 is good for production only and not for breeding. If you need to stabilize your F1, you need to learn Inbreeding properly.
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
In a DNA, it consist of thousands of genes (Genomes), most of these genes are common to both plants and animals(including human). The markers are what separate plant from animals. The markers(Genomes) separate a tomato from cannabis. And supposedly, there is a marker that separate Og Kush from White Widow.

There's no way you can breed based on the genomes....unless you own a or have access to gene sequencing operation, well you can pay for the analysis. If you have, then you might as well play with genetic manipulation.

However you don't have everything analyze every time you have to breed (unless you're Bill Gates) and this is where Phenotypes comes handy. Phenotypes are just the physical expression of those genes (Genotype). Not all of them are express physically but for breeding purposes genes that are express physically are good enough to achieve what we want to produce.

Seems easy enough.

The problem with breeding is not the genetic make-up of your parent material.....The problem lies in the method/technique of breeding <<=== this alone here is responsible for the mess our cannabis is in.

There are 2 major mode of breeding
1. Inbreeding or Line Breeding
2. Outcrossing

A breeding program can be either or the combination of both

Our cannabis breeding problem is 2 front

1. Those who practice Inbreeding....would inbred the same bloodline, often brother with sister multiple times. Obviously, there is a great chance that 2 same bad genes (or alleles if you really want to be technical) will be pass to the offspring. Remember that some genes are not express physically? Some of these genes might have something to do with low yield or vulnerability to disease, etc.. Later on, you would wonder why such a great bloodline after a few generations suddenly start dying during a temperature change while its great grand-parent is able to handle such issue. This issue is called inbreeding depression/coeffiecient. There are techniques, that would minimize the chance of this happening and still maintain healthy offsprings both in phenotype and genotype.

2. Outcrossing....this is the common breeding practice we have. Why? Because its the easiest and no brainer and comes with benefit (pollen chuckers). The benefit of Outcrossing is called Heterosis. When you cross two unrelated strain, you created a hybrid (F1). If your hybrid goes through heterosis, then your growth is better than average, your yield is much better than average.....in other words everything is better. There's no denying that. And this is whether intentionally or ignorantly, breeders start to hype their F1, because it is simply better (potency, frosty, whatever). In terms of its genetic make up, all the gene pairings are complementary to each other (Genetic diversity). The problem here is the moment you have the plant cross with something else....you lose your original hybrid and start a new F1 again (a hybrid of a hybrid), now whether you have heterosis or not, depends on the new genetic makeup. F1 is good for production only and not for breeding. If you need to stabilize your F1, you need to learn Inbreeding properly.
Exactly. We choose the expressions we like best and go from there.

It's not rocket surgery.

It's like my garden. I grow a lot of hybrids. They perform better but you can't save the seed. I guess you can but lots of variation.

I store a lot of heirloom vegetables and flowers. Some I have worked for years selecting what I prefer.
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Well what if you wanted a purple strain?
How would you know, it's not just cold?
There is a big, big difference between the two!
It simply can't be denied.

Doesn't everyone here want an OG Adam and Eve?
Somewhere out there. There are breeders leading the good cause, and preserving these sacred genes. History is so, so important.

Does anybody think these breeders would hand these genes out? Lol.
They make their own strain. Call it landrace genes, and we're the ones getting screwed sideways.

It may be a painstaking way to breed. But isn't that the point? Why not preserve?
Instead of create.

There always comes a time, when there's too much inbreeding. Then it needs to be dialed back in time.

If things keep going the way they are. Monsanto will be the only ones with Adam and Eve. Imagine what Monsanto could do with these two.........
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Just saying there is no way for all siblings of a generation to share 100% of thier genes. They are diploid.

The different expressions you are seeing each generation is phenotypic expressions.

I get what some are saying. Out of a given strain there is a number of expressions depending on how well worked it is.

Let's say it's only 4 different ones. So you plant 20 seeds and get, for sake of math, 5 of each. Even in each group there would be difference in genes.
 
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