Rumors!

vradd

Active Member
hey veggie, where do you get your information that prop 19 will supersede prop 215?? yall put up a good fight theirs no doubt about that and i respect that, but please tell us where your getting YOUR information that this new prop will ruin everything pot in CA ?? i dont want stories or numbers, i want to see actual proof.

and i respectfully ask that no one responds until veggie or someone else can post the text needed to back your claims.
 
Oh fuck here we go again.
BLAW BLAW BLAW who gives a fuck? People are voting no on prop 19 because its a pease of shit prop.
the tex has alreadt been posted on this forum many time go find it and read.
 
Section 2B presents the controlling and relevant purposes for understanding what Prop. 19 can and cannot do. This section EXPRESSLY excludes the reach of Prop. 19 from the CUA and MMP. Sections 2B (7 & :cool: specifically state that the purpose of this initiative is to give municipalities total and complete control over the commercial sales of marijuana "EXCEPT as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.”

I see “bought and sold” and “possess and consume.” What about cultivation and taxation? Those don’t appear to be exempt.

 
Since collectives are expressly allowed, local ordinances banning them are not consistent with the MMP. Health and Safety Code Section 11362.83, which limits municipalities ability to ban coops or overly restrict them, is unaffected by Prop. 19 as it expressly states in Sections 2B (7 & :cool: that the laws created by Prop. 19 must be followed "EXCEPT as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.”
Yes, for: possession, consumption, and sales.


What about cultivation and taxes? Also, I would just like to point out that 19 neglects to mention 11362.5 in Section 2B (2)…that states which standing CA laws are to be unaffected by prop 19. If there were to be no interference then why not list the CUA and MMP right there in the exemptions?

 
Where does prop 19 “specifically recognize” these rights? Because I don’t see that ANYWHERE in the text of prop 19. Show me, in the bill, where it recognizes coops & collectives? Is that because those words aren’t even found in the text of prop 19? That’s not very “specific” is it?

there i just copied and pasted a bunch of shit for you to read and not give a fuck about.Because the fact is most people have there mind made up so you can say what you want but Im still and forever will alway vote NO on stupid ass, made for the rich to get richer,prop 19
 
can u post the whole text about that and not just that lil section. im not starting this to get a knuck and buck, i just want to see where YOU guys are getting your information. i want to see both sides of the story in text. im all for a fair debate and ive seen text on the pros' but ive only seen people give their own versions of interpertation.
 
I don't have time right now to go and research into it, but for anyone that knows, what does "except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9." actually mean? Is that talking about 215 etc? or something else?
 
Well, let's look into this now.

Prop 19 said:
Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city's limits remain illegal, but that the city's citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

Health and Safety section 11362.5 said:
11362.5. (a) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Compassionate Use Act of 1996. (b) (1) The people of the State of California hereby find and declare that the purposes of the Compassionate Use Act of 1996 are as follows: (A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where that medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the person's health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine, or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief. (B) To ensure that patients and their primary caregivers who obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes upon the recommendation of a physician are not subject to criminal prosecution or sanction. (C) To encourage the federal and state governments to implement a plan to provide for the safe and affordable distribution of marijuana to all patients in medical need of marijuana. (2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to supersede legislation prohibiting persons from engaging in conduct that endangers others, nor to condone the diversion of marijuana for nonmedical purposes. (c) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no physician in this state shall be punished, or denied any right or privilege, for having recommended marijuana to a patient for medical purposes. (d) Section 11357, relating to the possession of marijuana, and Section 11358, relating to the cultivation of marijuana, shall not apply to a patient, or to a patient's primary caregiver, who possesses or cultivates marijuana for the personal medical purposes of the patient upon the written or oral recommendation or approval of a physician.

This quite clearly states that if a city does not agree to control and tax, then every citizen is STILL allowed to posses and smoke as the law allows, and according to ehalth and safety blah, that is upto 28.5g without prosecution. However these citizens are nbot allowed to grow, just posses and use. It states that the H&S sections are exempt. So they ahve stated that normal citizens can only posess and use, but that medical users are still allowed their right to cultivate.

It states that 11357 and 11358 DO NOT APPLY. These Sections are the sections that talk about the limits and punishments, they state that they do not apply.
 
I may be wrong, i'm talking to someone with more qualifications in this than me for a second opinion, but i'm basing my opinion on what i see from deconstruction of the document, not from what a processional or a lawyer happens to say on the matter. I'm simply reading it from a nuetral viewpoint, i'm British, i couldn't give two damns what America has to say about it's cannabis.
 
I don't have time right now to go and research into it, but for anyone that knows, what does "except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9." actually mean? Is that talking about 215 etc? or something else?



11362.5 is Prop 215.

Laws don't have exemptions for current laws if they're meant to supersede old ones.

And like I've stated before ... You can't imply that a law supersedes an old law without it being expressed in the new legislation.


The people who say Prop 19 effects 215 are simply wrong.
 
Indeed. So basically anyone that states it overrides Prop 215 is pretty much a fecking idiot :)


They just use it as propaganda. Look how many times in this section of the forum I've had to repeat myself on this issue. They simply ignore the fact that they are wrong.
 
i feel i dont need to fight the good fight anymore after learning this as well

i really do have faith now.
 
Yup :) As my reputation tells me, it seems that there are far too many illiterates in California for it's own good. It is a legal document presented in VERY clear words and definitions, i am at a total loss as to where all these opinions and predictions are coming from.
 
the reason i love pot debates so much is because how it affects politics. (i know the basic concept only) but really thats all you need.

and in politics i learned when people run for politics they have terms such as 'appealing to the mass' and 'appealing to the ignorant' to gain their vote via manipulation of words. all english fallacies that WORK.

and with all do respect i feel once the baby boomer generation goes and the new generations come up we will have pot on our side. once those who've been raised into the propoganda get replaced by the generations who have had science and technology on their side will bring balance to the force.

an no im not degrading the elderly, i have a high level of respect for them. with age comes experience and with experience you have wisdom.
 
i agree. thats why they have been deemed by their peers and society as intelligent.


ok question,

pot is a scheduled 1 substance right?
http://isomerdesign.com/Cdsa/scheduleUS.php?schedule=1&section=4&structure=C

i dont know all the doctor terms from that site but it looks like meth is also one. are their any other 'known' type 1 substances that are readily prescribed to users for daily use?

if YES, do they require the 'certification paperwork' as pot seems to require? aka papertrail?
 
i agree. thats why they have been deemed by their peers and society as intelligent.


ok question,

pot is a scheduled 1 substance right?
http://isomerdesign.com/Cdsa/scheduleUS.php?schedule=1&section=4&structure=C

i dont know all the doctor terms from that site but it looks like meth is also one. are their any other 'known' type 1 substances that are readily prescribed to users for daily use?

if YES, do they require the 'certification paperwork' as pot seems to require? aka papertrail?

Not exactly ...

Under FEDERAL LAW marijuana along with other drugs like meth and LSD are Schedule 1 drugs. Which means they consider them to have ZERO medical benefit and thus can not be used for any reason what so ever.


States are the ones who have allowed marijuana to be used as medicine despite the federal ban. (As it should be)
Now as far as medicines. No, medical marijuana patients are treated like 2nd class citizens.

No one has to file with the state to use Vicodin.
No one has to file with the state to use Methadone.
Etc Etc.
 
Indeed. So basically anyone that states it overrides Prop 215 is pretty much a fecking idiot :)
The problem with the pro 19 logic is the supporters are too lazy to read everything necessary to understand how 19 was written, and its goals.

215 can be overridden on any subject not specifically mentioned in its text.

It limits amount in posession, but more importantly, it severely limits who can grow, and in how much area. Area was never discussed in 215.

The only idiots are those who blindly, and with no understanding, support this piece of shit bill.

You need to read the legalese that describes how a proposition differs from bills generated by the legislature.

Until you understand the complete picture, you should STFU.

Educate yourself.
 
The problem with the pro 19 logic is the supporters are too lazy to read everything necessary to understand how 19 was written, and its goals.

215 can be overridden on any subject not specifically mentioned in its text.

It limits amount in posession, but more importantly, it severely limits who can grow, and in how much area. Area was never discussed in 215.

The only idiots are those who blindly, and with no understanding, support this piece of shit bill.

You need to read the legalese that describes how a proposition differs from bills generated by the legislature.

Until you understand the complete picture, you should STFU.

Educate yourself.

good sir, u say pro supporters are too lazy to read how it was written, but unless your reading a different text it is very black and white. only those who want to knit pick at things are 'trying' to find flaws in it. dont u think the political figures who are for prop 19 would put up a fight with you if they as well thought the same? and yes i know prop 215 can be over written, but your forgetting , ANYTHING can be written over, so whats the arguement? things chance... people change... laws change.... its called excercising our rights.
 
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