Questions about non- "salt-based" nutrients...

I'm working with soil, I'm trying to keep it simple and close to organic. I'm saying "close to" because I have no time energy or desire to start mixing tea from raw materials or formulating my own compost. But, I'd like to keep my soil "natural" in terms of having healthy living microbes/mychorrizae etc.

I'm relatively new to this, so thanks for your patience and sharing your knowledge. My base is either FFOF or Happy Frog. Now I'm trying to work out what to add from there...

I've read that in soil, salts can build up and kill/hurt the soil (microbes?). So with avoiding that as a goal, I believe things like GH and AN are salt-based? Is Jack's (Classic and Blossom Booster) considered salt-based?

What would be a relatively inexpensive alternative for a prepackaged nutrient booster that is made to promote living soil? I have used Fox Farms Marine Cuisine and Happy Frog Fruit and Flower, are these considered good options?

Thanks in advance for the education --

If you're looking for nutrients with super low salt content you really gotta check out Green Wizard. Only problem is I don't know if you can get them outside of Michigan. There website doesn't say anything about shipping but they have contact info so you can ask. www.greenwizardnutrients.com is the website.

I used their nutes for three years and can't recommend them enough, I switched to growing organically because I wanted to start playing chef and having more control over individual elements. And organic is way cheaper than growing from bottles.

But as far as pour and go goes, green wizard is the best line I ever used. I used R/O water and never had to mess with pH. If you're using an EC meter it's pretty irrelevant because there is such low salt content. It's very difficult to burn your plants with, it can be done though if you like to test the limits of what your plant can take.

If you can't get any green wizard nutes I would go for the Canna nutrient line, it's not too expensive and gets good results.

If I could offer a word of advice if you're growing from bottles you should stick with pro mix over the expensive fox farm bags of soil. All they are is potting soil (like promix) with guano, kelp, and other amendments (and not really that much of any of them). So they still technically are soilless mixes. And if you're gonna get all your nutes from bottles then why not just buy the cheaper promix?

pre made tea packs

https://www.sunlightsupply.com/shop...d-supplements/xtreme-gardening-tea-brew-packs

Humanrob said:

I'm working with soil, I'm trying to keep it simple and close to organic. I'm saying "close to" because I have no time energy or desire to start mixing tea from raw materials or formulating my own compost. But, I'd like to keep my soil "natural" in terms of having healthy living microbes/mychorrizae etc.

I'm relatively new to this, so thanks for your patience and sharing your knowledge. My base is either FFOF or Happy Frog. Now I'm trying to work out what to add from there...

I've read that in soil, salts can build up and kill/hurt the soil (microbes?). So with avoiding that as a goal, I believe things like GH and AN are salt-based? Is Jack's (Classic and Blossom Booster) considered salt-based?

What would be a relatively inexpensive alternative for a prepackaged nutrient booster that is made to promote living soil? I have used Fox Farms Marine Cuisine and Happy Frog Fruit and Flower, are these considered good options?

Thanks in advance for the education --

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Chicken shit, bone n blood meal, high quality compost, earthworm castings. You're looking for organic inputs and amendments rather than 'natural sources for nutrient salts.' Composted animal manure is high in nitrogen but it also had lots of other nutrients in it. Most organic inputs are like that.

There's a whole organic growing section here on RIU- they'll have much better answers for your specific situation.

ttystikk said:

Chicken shit, bone n blood meal, high quality compost, earthworm castings. You're looking for organic inputs and amendments rather than 'natural sources for nutrient salts.' Composted animal manure is high in nitrogen but it also had lots of other nutrients in it. Most organic inputs are like that.

There's a whole organic growing section here on RIU- they'll have much better answers for your specific situation.

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I think he's trying to avoid salts, blood meal and manure are all high in salts. That being said I agree. Check out the organic section homie! It's a little more work on the learning end but once you know your shit (literally), it's a lot easier and cheaper.

Organic tip #1 stop buying soil from the growstore! Landscape supply and Garden Stores and even big box stores like Menards and Lowe's all carry peat moss, compost, and perlite at cheaper prices. A box of fish bone meal, kelp meal, and some garden lime and you've got your own quality soil mix for way cheaper than buying happy frog, promix, foxfarm, etc.

Thanks for all of the comments and advice. I have a small grow, and at this point in time I'm not interested in mixing my own soil. My first grow I went to a garden/farm store and got the same components I use in my outdoor garden -- mushroom compost, steer manure, guano, peat moss, etc -- and I ended out with some serious bug problems. So I moved to the more 'made for indoor potted plants' section, and I'm fine with that for now, at my scale using FF and HF as a base isn't that expensive. I was wondering what fertilizers would complement that, and if all granular 'nutes' like Jacks are salt based?

Thanks again for the replies.

Green Wizard or Canna nutes would pair just fine. Just give half feeding for your first three weeks then switch to full feedings (you can work up to double feedings with green wizard). And I don't know if granular nutes are all salt based, but I do know they are all worth avoiding.

Humanrob said:

Thanks for all of the comments and advice. I have a small grow, and at this point in time I'm not interested in mixing my own soil. My first grow I went to a garden/farm store and got the same components I use in my outdoor garden -- mushroom compost, steer manure, guano, peat moss, etc -- and I ended out with some serious bug problems. So I moved to the more 'made for indoor potted plants' section, and I'm fine with that for now, at my scale using FF and HF as a base isn't that expensive. I was wondering what fertilizers would complement that, and if all granular 'nutes' like Jacks are salt based?

Thanks again for the replies.

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"Growing With Organics
Among the 12 organic farmers who did share their nutrient regimens with us, the two most popular lines were Organicare (from Botanicare) and General Organics (from General Hydroponics); Organic FoxFarm was also rated highly. Nearly all of the organic nutrient programs were used in conjunction with soilless mixes or compost."

http://www.hightimes.com/read/how-grow-cannabis-cup-winner

Organicare is sweet

Honestly though organic farming and gardening are both based on building and feeding the soil. Not lecturing just pointing it out. Also if you were to precipitate organics you end up with an elemental salt.

hotrodharley said:

Nearly all of the organic nutrient programs were used in conjunction with soilless mixes or compost."

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When you say "soilless mixes or compost" do you mean compost tea? Usually when I hear "soilless mixes" I'm thinking coco or peat moss as a base, but I would not put "compost" in that category, so I'm confused.

hotrodharley said:

Also if you were to precipitate organics you end up with an elemental salt.

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I don't understand what you mean by that sentence?


I do use some store bought compost tea along the way. In retrospect I suppose I could have titled this thread "the lazy man's attempt at using prepared prepackaged organic products, without spending a fortune" but that's kind of long. Revealing, but long.

Humanrob said:

When you say "soilless mixes or compost" do you mean compost tea? Usually when I hear "soilless mixes" I'm thinking coco or peat moss as a base, but I would not put "compost" in that category, so I'm confused.



I don't understand what you mean by that sentence?


I do use some store bought compost tea along the way. In retrospect I suppose I could have titled this thread "the lazy man's attempt at using prepared prepackaged organic products, without spending a fortune" but that's kind of long. Revealing, but long.

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Soilless is anything but straight soil as far as that article goes. By precipitating I mean if you were to distill off the water you would end up with each elemental salt. Like human urine. Phosphorous, nitrogen etc would all be salts left behind that are simply reconstituted once water is added. I use cheapGH Flora series nutes and get great results in soil I made with sphagnum moss, organic humus, vermiculite and Perlite. I never get salt build up.Nutes, then water twice before feeding again. Then increase the EC of your feed and repeat the water etc.

hotrodharley said:

Soilless is anything but straight soil as far as that article goes.

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My apologies, I asked the question without having fully read the article. "In fact, organic compost falls into the category of a soilless mix" -- this is news to me, I'll have to wrap my brain around it. The article just skims the surface of this, but it makes me wonder what the (or their?) definition of "soil" is?

Humanrob said:

My apologies, I asked the question without having fully read the article. "In fact, organic compost falls into the category of a soilless mix" -- this is news to me, I'll have to wrap my brain around it. The article just skims the surface of this, but it makes me wonder what the (or their?) definition of "soil" is?

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It is my understanding that if it ain't regular soil it is considered soilless.I am assuming that means regarding nutrient schedules.

For organic soil grows,as far as pre packaged nutrients go...look into earth juice.