Question about genetics of seeds

Starkton44

Member
I was down to my last seed of my full moon seeds. It grew but it ended up being a boy, so I let it go in my flowering room with some of my random seeds that i am growing. My question, How much of the full moon strain will be part of the new seed that is mixed

Who has more dominance in the gene when a seed is created? Is it more on the father plant side or more on the mother plants side?
 
its a mix. the F1 seeds you created will have a wide variety of the parent plants. some could be 50/50 while others could be 60/40 or 70/30, etc etc. it would be similar to if you had a ton of children with the same woman. all your children will resemble you and the mother, but none of the children will be identical.

plant the F1s and select keeper plants (based on desired traits) from that generation to make your F2 seed generation. do the same thing with the F2s to get to the F3s. and as you move further down the line, selecting parents based on the same desired traits. eventually (f3, f4, f5) the plants will resemble the traits that you have been selecting for.

good luck!
 
The guy above me explains it pretty well...some of the offspring phenotypes will lean towards the mother's phenotype, others towards the father's, and some will be an even mix of both. Once you have your seeds, grow out like 20-50 of them to select a keeper female...
 
Um ok stop right there. You need to read the marijuana botany guide before you make a mistake. http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbotany-removed/marijuanabotany3.html

""A grower in northern latitudes selected an ideal spot to grow a crop and prepared the soil well. Seeds were selected from the best floral clusters of several strains avail able over the past few years, both imported and domestic. Nearly all of the staminate plants were removed as they matured and a nearly seedless crop of beautiful plants resulted. After careful consideration, the few seeds from accidental pollination of the best flowers were kept for the following season, These seeds produced even bigger and better plants than the year before and seed collection was performed as before. The third season, most of the plants were not as large or desirable as the second season, but there were many good individuals. Seed collection and cultivation the fourth season resulted in plants inferior even to the first crop, and this trend continued year after year. What went wrong? The grower collected seed from the best plants each year and grew them under the same conditions. The crop improved the first year. Why did the strain degenerate?

This example illustrates the unconscious selection for undesirable traits. The hypothetical cultivator began well by selecting the best seeds available and growing them properly. The seeds selected for the second season resulted from random hybrid pollinations by early-flowering or overlooked staminate plants and by hermaphrodite pistil late plants. Many of these random pollen-parents may be undesirable for breeding since they may pass on tendencies toward premature maturation, retarded maturation, or hermaphrodism. However, the collected hybrid seeds pro duce, on the average, larger and more desirable offspring than the first season. This condition is called hybrid vigor and results from the hybrid crossing of two diverse gene pools. The tendency is for many of the dominant characteristics from both parents to be transmitted to the F1 off spring, resulting in particularly large and vigorous plants. This increased vigor due to recombination of dominant genes often raises the cannabinoid level of the F1 offspring, but hybridization also opens up the possibility that undesirable (usually recessive) genes may form pairs and express their characteristics in the F2 offspring. Hybrid vigor may also mask inferior qualities due to abnormally rapid growth. During the second season, random pollinations again accounted for a few seeds and these were collected. This selection draws on a huge gene pool and the possible F2 combinations are tremendous. By the third season the gene pool is tending toward early-maturing plants that are acclimatized to their new conditions instead of the drug-producing conditions of their native environment. These acclimatized members of the third crop have a higher chance of maturing viable seeds than the parental types, and random pollinations will again increase the numbers of acclimatized individuals, and thereby increase the chance that undesirable characteristics associated with acclimatization will be transmitted to the next F2 generation. This effect is compounded from generation to generation and finally results in a fully acclimatized weed strain of little drug value."

Ok a lot of writting.
Bottom line is you can probably grab a good cutting along the way but when you cross un-stable crosses together you can randomness and weaker genetics.
Not many seeds are sold with strong genetics and real landrace are hard to get
 
@pandan, before you tell people to stop right there, and read before you make a mistake. you should maybe actually know what you are talking about. you have no idea what your talking about. its evident through your post.

JCashMan said it properly.

There are countless seeds sold with FANTASTIC strong genetics and landrace strains are easy to get. not even IMO, its a fact.
 
Oh it's a fact huh? Why can no one even agree very well on who is a reputable breeder then and who's beans aren't random as fuck?

And did I say don't do it? No. It might of appeared that way at first but i just wanted the guy to shift gears of thought at first and think about the genetics and information that real botanists (like the one i quoted) have about cross breeding. I don't even have to say much the idea was to get the guy to read the quote and the whole page it's from idealy and then to look at the genetics of what he wants to cross or at least know what to maybe expect.

I told him that he could find a mother along the way- but I'm trying to say that if he keeps going seed seed seed with random pollination then you are making the mistake that is in the text i quoted.

One last thing. You say there are loads of good stable genetics out there easy to find? NAME IT THEN! Go on, right here, make first time history since like i said no one EVER reaches consensus about what breeder or bean is good or not.

Make a short list right here right now of true breed strains or landraces and where to find them easily
I think what you will really find that MOST shit you can buy out there if you breed it with the same strain you could end up with something really different than the 2 parents. And how do you breed 'the same thing' with itself and not end up with a 3rd one? Because of the higher chance of recessive genes showing through and all of the random parentage before it.
So which strains can I buy that are Homozygous and reliable for breeding easily?
 
Old Strains, Skunk, northern lights, Haze. Look at the seed companies that have been around for 30-40 years. I've read marijuana botany and dj shorts book and from what I read unless you have the time and space to sort thousands then your odds go way down. Back in the 70 and 80 alot of breeders grew huge fields and in large greenhouses and did all of the work most breeders are still working off of today. I don't think many of todays breeders want to admit that not to many true strains are really out there. I have experimented with a few mixes and figure if I only cross awesome smoke with awesome smoke I may not end up with anything stable and I'll likely lose yeild in a few generations but I shouldn't lose quality of smoke which is really the best trait.
 
I agree Bigtacofarmer- and who sells these strains you say? Well they are for sure out there but if you aren't careful you'll get some bullshit salesman sell you a knock off claiming to be the strain when all they did is buy someone else's seed and try to breed it from there WITHOUT THE ORIGINAL MOTHERS to get the back cross right.

Yes they are out there but i still say its not "easy" to find a reputable dealer when every man and his dog are selling seeds claiming theirs is the real deal.
 
I was down to my last seed of my full moon seeds. It grew but it ended up being a boy, so I let it go in my flowering room with some of my random seeds that i am growing. My question, How much of the full moon strain will be part of the new seed that is mixed

Who has more dominance in the gene when a seed is created? Is it more on the father plant side or more on the mother plants side?

The quick answer is that the first generation offspring will contain roughly 1/2 the genes from each parent.
Note that even though the plants will probably express some traits from each parent, this does NOT mean that the plants will be "half-way" between the parents in terms of height, potency, etc, because genes don't work that way.

As to the rest of the comments in this thread, there is a big difference between hand-selecting the best plants from a brood and crossing them over many cycles (ie deliberate breeding), vs. allowing plants to open-fertilize outdoors "accidentally" (ie what Clarke described in the excerpted paragraphs above).

Since outdoor-grown plants won't naturally self-select for potency, compact growth, yield, etc, if you want those traits to develop or persist, you have to deliberately select for them yourself. If you don't select for these traits, with random pollination they'll eventually disappear under natural selective pressure in large outdoor grows.

Make a short list right here right now of true breed strains or landraces and where to find them easily
You're kidding, right?

True breeding strains: Northern lights #5, Skunk #1, White Widow. These three are also all vigorous, relatively easy to grow, highly potent, and still probably literally the #s 1, 2, and 3 more popular strains on the planet.

Other old school true breeding strains you may have heard of: Hindu Kush, Big Bud, Blueberry, Bubblegum, Early Girl, Power plant, Hash Plant, Grand-daddy purple (aka Humboldt purple, aka purple urkle), etc. All of these are 20+ years old, and versions of most (if not all) are still readily available anywhere you can find seed selections.

Where can you get them "easily"? Hop on a plane, take the 20 minute ride downtown from Schiphol and you can literally buy the seeds off the shelf at any one of half-a-dozen seedbanks in Amsterdam, in labelled packages from reputable breeders like Sensi seeds.

If Europe is too far, you could do the exact same thing with several seed banks on the West Coast of Canada, near Vancouver.

Passport not in order? OK, in any major metro area in CA you can find clones of same for sale, either from reputable dispensaries, or even from individuals listing on Craig's list for under $10! You do need the proper Med MJ card to buy, but those aren't too hard to come by (certainly easier than flying to Europe!), and I suspect you can probably find individual sellers who might not care.

Now, buying a clone from someone's backyard won't give you the same likelihood of authenticity/quality that you'll have buying directly from a reputable breeder, but I can tell you for sure that many of the clones being sold this way are in fact exactly what they are billed to be.

As to "landrace" strains (which are more appropriately called "heirloom" strains, I think), well known ones that shouldn't be too hard to acquire would include Acapulco Gold, Afghan #1 (or some variant of a pure Afghani), Malawi Gold, and Durban Poison. There are plenty of others out there from Africa, Jamaica, etc, though again, they're a bit harder to find commercially.

This is not because they aren't good, but because almost by definition, landrace strains were optimized for large scale outdoor grows under particular climate conditions. Change from a tropical/desert/jungle/equatorial/etc climate to a typical North America one, or try to grow them indoors, and they won't do as well as strains optimized for those sorts of grows. In other words, the true landrace strains just don't meet the needs of the majority of seed-buyers, and with lower demand comes lesser supply.
 
Anything in the Mr Nice range you say? They are all as stable as each other?

I'm going to look in to those companies you said about landrace. Have you grown any or just know their catalogue? I still haven't got to it yet but I want to grow World Of Seeds Afghan Kush landrace because apparently it's the real deal. They sell a half dozen or so others too like columbian gold, some thai one, a morocan one etc... but i haven't been able to find out how authentic or quality they are yet.
 
ive grown ace and im not sure of afro's line anymore as he has passed and idk what happened to the company and i have not tested mulberry but their whole listing is landrace and i picked up a preserv pack
 
(1) The quick answer is that the first generation offspring will contain roughly 1/2 the genes from each parent.
Note that even though the plants will probably express some traits from each parent, this does NOT mean that the plants will be "half-way" between the parents in terms of height, potency, etc, because genes don't work that way.

(2) As to the rest of the comments in this thread, there is a big difference between hand-selecting the best plants from a brood and crossing them over many cycles (ie deliberate breeding), vs. allowing plants to open-fertilize outdoors "accidentally" (ie what Clarke described in the excerpted paragraphs above).

Since outdoor-grown plants won't naturally self-select for potency, compact growth, yield, etc, if you want those traits to develop or persist, you have to deliberately select for them yourself. If you don't select for these traits, with random pollination they'll eventually disappear under natural selective pressure in large outdoor grows.

You're kidding, right?

(3) True breeding strains: Northern lights #5, Skunk #1, White Widow. These three are also all vigorous, relatively easy to grow, highly potent, and still probably literally the #s 1, 2, and 3 more popular strains on the planet.

Other old school true breeding strains you may have heard of: Hindu Kush, Big Bud, Blueberry, Bubblegum, Early Girl, Power plant, Hash Plant, Grand-daddy purple (aka Humboldt purple, aka purple urkle), etc. All of these are 20+ years old, and versions of most (if not all) are still readily available anywhere you can find seed selections.

(4) Where can you get them "easily"? Hop on a plane, take the 20 minute ride downtown from Schiphol and you can literally buy the seeds off the shelf at any one of half-a-dozen seedbanks in Amsterdam, in labelled packages from reputable breeders like Sensi seeds.

If Europe is too far, you could do the exact same thing with several seed banks on the West Coast of Canada, near Vancouver.

Passport not in order? OK, in any major metro area in CA you can find clones of same for sale, either from reputable dispensaries, or even from individuals listing on Craig's list for under $10! You do need the proper Med MJ card to buy, but those aren't too hard to come by (certainly easier than flying to Europe!), and I suspect you can probably find individual sellers who might not care.

Now, buying a clone from someone's backyard won't give you the same likelihood of authenticity/quality that you'll have buying directly from a reputable breeder, but I can tell you for sure that many of the clones being sold this way are in fact exactly what they are billed to be.

(5) As to "landrace" strains (which are more appropriately called "heirloom" strains, I think), well known ones that shouldn't be too hard to acquire would include Acapulco Gold, Afghan #1 (or some variant of a pure Afghani), Malawi Gold, and Durban Poison. There are plenty of others out there from Africa, Jamaica, etc, though again, they're a bit harder to find commercially.

This is not because they aren't good, but because almost by definition, landrace strains were optimized for large scale outdoor grows under particular climate conditions. Change from a tropical/desert/jungle/equatorial/etc climate to a typical North America one, or try to grow them indoors, and they won't do as well as strains optimized for those sorts of grows. In other words, the true landrace strains just don't meet the needs of the majority of seed-buyers, and with lower demand comes lesser supply.

(1) What you say is true IF both parents are true bred! By using an unstable F1 hybrid as a mother or father or both it's children seed will be like F2 and show expressions of all the lineage of the parents which could be 4 or more strains (2 different strains to make the mother and then 2 different strains to make the father (if those 4 were true bred too or it gets even more complicated and then the offspring is the seed you get from the store and 'start' breeding with)

(2) Since when does indoor auto select for anything? You pull it out or put it in a pretty similar way.

(3) Yes you have named strains but you didn't say where to get the authentic true breeding seed of it as in EXACT company not just "shop in amsterdam". There are TONS of BULLSHIT ARTISTS out there trying to claim their shit is the real thing. Take White Widow for instance. Do you buy it from Arjan and the Greenhouse Seed company? Or do you believe Shantibaba that Arjan is a lieing prick selling knock off genetics. Their is debate about if Arjan simply bought end user seeds after shantibaba left and tried to breed it from that. If that's true he is less likely to have the real genetics in breeding form.
I'm not saying it's not out there but don't say it's easy! Easy is googling white widow and picking the first thing that comes up and getting the real deal. THAT DOESNT HAPPEN! Medium difficulty is googling and looking closely at 5 companies and picking 1 to true. HARD is having to look at 10 or more companies and read journal posts and all kinds of shit to make sure you aren't geting damn conned- and that's exactly how it is!

(4) Hop on a plane? Are you Richard fucking Branson or something cause i'm not. I've never left Australia and can barely afford to get a car on the road at the moment. That's right Australia- not everyone in the weed growing or possibly breeding world lives in frickin cali. All these locations are literally on the other side of the world! 20+ hour flying! No such thing as medical weed here in any shape or form.

(5) Landrace are great but again how do you find the real people who have it- not the money hungry salesmen? You didn't name a single breeder. The other guy atleast named breeders which was usefull
I would actually like to know where the good landrace seeds are to buy to grow myself. Maybe even breed if i can get this good pure genetics to work with.

To explain myself again- breeding possible but not 'easy' to get started.
 
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