Prune for no Stress/Weak Growth!

C.Indica

Well-Known Member
Hello Rollitup:leaf:
I wrote this to help gardeners focus more energy on product, and little to none on waste.
The boring intro that most of you will skip;

This will increase branch strength, lower bud count, and if applied correctly,
dramatically increase quality (Not potency) & quantity of yield.

First and foremost, I would like to thank SimonD@Rollitup/Simon@ICMag endlessly for his inspiration.
He has donated to the community several rediculously helpful threads, including one on the perfect cure.
What inspired this technique was his LST+Prune for no Popcorn! method.

He combines a simple LST, with some pruning & removal of branches, and turns out fat colas with no popcorn.
I found his method to be a bit brutal and untimed, but relentlessly beneficial.
So I set out to perfect this method, and I would still only consider myself a third of the way there.
Perfection is a human concept.

This can be done from seed or clone, and can be applied to most plant species, especially vegetable gardening & bonsai.
At an internode, a few things happen. First a leaf & two stipules emerge, followed by a branch, and then a couple flowers.
In most topping/pruning techniques, branches are removed at a certain point, wasting so much energy on development.
If you understand the basic way that cannabis grows, then you can have much precision on your pruning, and shape a plant dramatically in it's early stages.

Using a razor blade, I cut out undesired branches the second they appear.
You will see a couple baby leaves emerging as a branch, I just tuck my blade behind them and cut very safely and slowly downward,
towards the petiole. This way I only remove the leaf when I mess up, instead of an accidental topping.

You should 'pop' the branch right out when done right, and two little baby leaves will fall down.

Be very precise, and do not miss the growth tip! Otherwise the branch will continue to drain energy as it grows very stressed.
I usually cut out the third generation of branches. The branches, that come out of the branches, that come out of the main stalk/tree trunk.

But of course depending on goal/environment you may alter this in whatever way.
Using this, you could grow a 5' plant with only one budsite, that would probably spit out a 15" football of bud.
But there are drawbacks..

Having too few nugs, will result in rediculously large colas, but without the high penetration of HID lighting, the insides won't ripen fully
when compared to the outsides.

I strongly encourage you to run a particular strain through this method, with varying #'s of budsites/branches, until you find what they like best.
For example, my recent grow had 5 colas, but some insides were lime green/unripe.

Next time I run this strain that large, I'll do 20 colas.
Next time I run this method, I'll probably avoid LST completely.

I found that colas that grew horizontal, spat out all leaves on one side,
while the other side took longer to fully ripen due to less light.

It's very easy to precisely control the number and strength of branches with this method.
Here's my Lemon Skunk grow, this is a great example of SimonD's method.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/444684-cfl-lemon-skunk-clone.html


I currently have a freshly rooted clone of Lemon Skunk.

Since it's such perfect timing, I'll donate her to the thread.
Her name is Alpha.

I'm already maintaining a strict record of information on her,
she will be grown for one trophy cola, in a 24oz
Dr. Pepper bottle cut down to about 22.

Alpha Profile.jpg

Alpha was cut on 10/01, roots appeared 10/17 (Slow..)
She was transplanted into her Dr.Pepper bottle on 10/23, and switched to 15/9 under 60w CFL.
On 10/27 she was switched to 12/12, and today is day 3 Flower.

I notice the budsite just starting to swell, still no hairs yet.

Due to a rediculous experience with Homedepot's "EcoSmart" bulbs burning out
one by one, and losing the receipt, I will be running low CFL wattage.

I have a 40w 5000k, and 3x 20w 2700k's.
Total 100w CFL, 20oz of dirt, Single Cola, Lemon Skunk, X Nutrients(Hydroponix)
Dirt is bulk cheap shitty dirt, mixed with some dolomite lime.


I just grew this strain out with a two month veg, and chopped it @ 56 days flowering.
I feel it was a few days early, but she starting shooting out bananas @ day 49.

We'll see how it goes.
 

Afka

Active Member
Or you could just use your fingers and use a pinching motion involving your nails :P

While huge colas LOOK cool, they aren't very marketable (if that's what you do), won't dry/cure right and have to be cut down to pieces to cure, really. Or else you'll get a big smell mold-nugget, been there, done that, smoked it anyway.
 

C.Indica

Well-Known Member
Or you could just use your fingers and use a pinching motion involving your nails :P

While huge colas LOOK cool, they aren't very marketable (if that's what you do), won't dry/cure right and have to be cut down to pieces to cure, really. Or else you'll get a big smell mold-nugget, been there, done that, smoked it anyway.
If you use a Razor Blade, you can remove them smaller and sooner.
The point of this is to remove them before the plant has spent any energy on them.
If it's big enough for you to pluck out, it's just wasted that much more energy.

And this is just the basics, the size & quantity of your buds is up to you.
Don't you see this? You can manipulate it however you want.

I agree with the large colas, that's why I personally am going to do 20 colas next grow, instead of 5.
It's all about what works best for you.

And UB, if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything at all.
Didn't you have a mother?
:leaf:
 

Phaeton

Active Member
Grow the same strain until it is familiar. Everything at the end that should not be there gets cut immediately on the next crop, soon nothing is waste.
I have been growing for 13 years, I do that with light spectrums as well as leaves.

Growers with less experience do not always have a direction and having good lessons repeated is not SOS, but a path from one who has already found the rough spots. I do not have enough focus for long posts, I'm glad other's take the time to do so.

Nothing is for everyone. That's my two cents.
 

newwb

Active Member
This is exactly the type of thread I've been hoping to find..I got a batch of 5 clones at the collective, and all they said were 2 are blue rhino, 2 are jack frost and 1 is NYC Diesel.
They weren't marked, nothing..so I figured I'd let them grow out a bit and maybe some expert could help 2 identify them..I have 4 potted plants of these clones, 1 only had 1 tiny root that tore off upon transplanting(it was very stunted..wanted 2 see why..) so I made another cut, redipped and set into my bubble cloner..still hasn't re rooted (13 days)I also have 5 ICE clones on the bubbles with her, just ph 6.4 h2o and a gtt of super thrive in the 3 gal bucket.
My main problem, besides not knowing each's true strain, is that 2 of them that are growing exactly alike have grown sooo many branches, and branches off their branches, that all the new growth coming out under that mess are either bent/twisted, or worse..I did snip a few of the fan leaves so more light could get in there, all it is doing is growing more stem! One is about 7-8" and 1 is my "runt" and about 3 inches behind, but I see what she is doing, all her juice is going into building a huge network of branches off the branches that come off the main stem.(a newbies guess at why she is so far behind and has all of the same conditions)
Anything I can do to the water in my bubble cloner to make these damn roots pop...been going 12-13 days now and all I can really see is a couple have 1 tiny root, but it's up high, just under the neoprene puck (where I had cut off the lowest leaves)
I want 2 start a grow journal, but am not entirely sure how, any advice available...would be greatly appreciated.
(do I just go to grow journals>add a new thread>and post, if so, how do I link it to my signature, just c/p the page and put it under sig?
Thank you all who have offered much valued assistance so far, though I did lose one of my 1st 2 plants (northern lights) it was just beyond my skill level to bring back, but the other 2 that were sick look sooo much better and tons of new, undamaged growth (not even yellow!!) lol
Will attach a pic or two to give the visual...so if I cut the 3rd generation stuff, this should really thin her out and maybe she'll put all that energy into growing UP!
BTW..the pics 2 and 3 are the same plants, and they are now in 3 gal pots This one is anyway, I wanted to wait on the runt till I see roots on the bottom..
Also..I have a friend I met this past yr and she has grown for many yrs..she has these 5 gal pots she uses, with a hole on each side of the bottom that she places a 12" peice of cotton wicking across the bottom and dangles the remaining 7-8 inches on each side down into the nute bucket, then covers it with soil, adds plant, and she says she never hits the soil with water, the pvc pip drilled into the inner pot is where u water, put a gallon or so in the outer bucket, if I hadn't seen the pics of the pound plus harvests per plant I wouldn't have believed it, but with that kind of yield I thought it was worth a try on a few plants, anyone do only bottom watering?
If educated on this, anyone know why a plant would do better like that?
And I just realized the plant says NYC Diesel..that was before someone told me different..lol
 

Attachments

newwb

Active Member
Going by what 1 person told me..they "thought" the plant in pic 1 is the "blue rhino" and that the extremely bushy 2 are Jack Frost...any help appreciated..and I forgot to post the "bushy" runt...same growing pattern, just a few inches behind the other..
Peace
 

Attachments

Boobonik

Member
Ok, I follow you this far.. But, how do I know how many branches I need? Is the goal to grow fewer but longer and more illuminated branches for budding?
 

C.Indica

Well-Known Member
Grow the same strain until it is familiar. Everything at the end that should not be there gets cut immediately on the next crop, soon nothing is waste.
I have been growing for 13 years, I do that with light spectrums as well as leaves.

Growers with less experience do not always have a direction and having good lessons repeated is not SOS, but a path from one who has already found the rough spots. I do not have enough focus for long posts, I'm glad other's take the time to do so.

Nothing is for everyone. That's my two cents.
Everyone has preferences. This is more to get people thinking and coming up with their own personal technique.

Define your use of "energy".
If the branch that start's off as a little group of cells, becomes a pair of leaves with a growth tip and stipules and all that junk,
it's cost the plant resources to get it this far.
Once those leaves start to develop, they will themselves produce energy for the plant, but until then it's just sucking up "energy".

It's the same thing as popcorn nugs, and removing leaves in early veg. I know you understand this.

This is exactly the type of thread I've been hoping to find..I got a batch of 5 clones at the collective, and all they said were 2 are blue rhino, 2 are jack frost and 1 is NYC Diesel.
They weren't marked, nothing..so I figured I'd let them grow out a bit and maybe some expert could help 2 identify them..I have 4 potted plants of these clones, 1 only had 1 tiny root that tore off upon transplanting(it was very stunted..wanted 2 see why..) so I made another cut, redipped and set into my bubble cloner..still hasn't re rooted (13 days)I also have 5 ICE clones on the bubbles with her, just ph 6.4 h2o and a gtt of super thrive in the 3 gal bucket.
My main problem, besides not knowing each's true strain, is that 2 of them that are growing exactly alike have grown sooo many branches, and branches off their branches, that all the new growth coming out under that mess are either bent/twisted, or worse..I did snip a few of the fan leaves so more light could get in there, all it is doing is growing more stem! One is about 7-8" and 1 is my "runt" and about 3 inches behind, but I see what she is doing, all her juice is going into building a huge network of branches off the branches that come off the main stem.(a newbies guess at why she is so far behind and has all of the same conditions)
Anything I can do to the water in my bubble cloner to make these damn roots pop...been going 12-13 days now and all I can really see is a couple have 1 tiny root, but it's up high, just under the neoprene puck (where I had cut off the lowest leaves)
I want 2 start a grow journal, but am not entirely sure how, any advice available...would be greatly appreciated.
(do I just go to grow journals>add a new thread>and post, if so, how do I link it to my signature, just c/p the page and put it under sig?
Thank you all who have offered much valued assistance so far, though I did lose one of my 1st 2 plants (northern lights) it was just beyond my skill level to bring back, but the other 2 that were sick look sooo much better and tons of new, undamaged growth (not even yellow!!) lol
Will attach a pic or two to give the visual...so if I cut the 3rd generation stuff, this should really thin her out and maybe she'll put all that energy into growing UP!
BTW..the pics 2 and 3 are the same plants, and they are now in 3 gal pots This one is anyway, I wanted to wait on the runt till I see roots on the bottom..
Also..I have a friend I met this past yr and she has grown for many yrs..she has these 5 gal pots she uses, with a hole on each side of the bottom that she places a 12" peice of cotton wicking across the bottom and dangles the remaining 7-8 inches on each side down into the nute bucket, then covers it with soil, adds plant, and she says she never hits the soil with water, the pvc pip drilled into the inner pot is where u water, put a gallon or so in the outer bucket, if I hadn't seen the pics of the pound plus harvests per plant I wouldn't have believed it, but with that kind of yield I thought it was worth a try on a few plants, anyone do only bottom watering?
If educated on this, anyone know why a plant would do better like that?
And I just realized the plant says NYC Diesel..that was before someone told me different..lol
Going by what 1 person told me..they "thought" the plant in pic 1 is the "blue rhino" and that the extremely bushy 2 are Jack Frost...any help appreciated..and I forgot to post the "bushy" runt...same growing pattern, just a few inches behind the other..
Peace
Not really sure what to say to this? Hope you find out which are which, you'll notice their true identity in flowering.
If you had a question, ask it, otherwise I suggest you make your own thread to help you identify your genetics.

Ok, I follow you this far.. But, how do I know how many branches I need? Is the goal to grow fewer but longer and more illuminated branches for budding?
This is up to you, your environment, your genetics, and your preferences bro.
I tryed a plant with 5 colas and no popcorn, decided the nugs were too large.
Next grow I'm going to try 20 tops of equal size, with no lower nugs.

Just my personal example.

You could use this for anything, it's not just to produce buds. It's just to avoid spending energy on portions that are later going to be removed.
 

Afka

Active Member
If it's gonna be popcorn come trimming time; it goes during stretch.

That means stuff that is obviously shaded from the canopy, beneath layers (not just 1) of leaves.
 

newwb

Active Member
Well my big question for you was about "trimming and taming that bush of unruly leaves,and what is the best way to accomplish this, but reading/following your advise here helped lots,. I have thinned it out some after reading this, now perhaps it will put it's energy into explosive growth I hear so many mention.
Thank you.
 

obijohn

Well-Known Member
This is exactly the type of thread I've been hoping to find..I got a batch of 5 clones at the collective, and all they said were 2 are blue rhino, 2 are jack frost and 1 is NYC Diesel.
They weren't marked, nothing..so I figured I'd let them grow out a bit and maybe some expert could help 2 identify them..I have 4 potted plants of these clones, 1 only had 1 tiny root that tore off upon transplanting(it was very stunted..wanted 2 see why..) so I made another cut, redipped and set into my bubble cloner..still hasn't re rooted (13 days)I also have 5 ICE clones on the bubbles with her, just ph 6.4 h2o and a gtt of super thrive in the 3 gal bucket.
My main problem, besides not knowing each's true strain, is that 2 of them that are growing exactly alike have grown sooo many branches, and branches off their branches, that all the new growth coming out under that mess are either bent/twisted, or worse..I did snip a few of the fan leaves so more light could get in there, all it is doing is growing more stem! One is about 7-8" and 1 is my "runt" and about 3 inches behind, but I see what she is doing, all her juice is going into building a huge network of branches off the branches that come off the main stem.(a newbies guess at why she is so far behind and has all of the same conditions)
Anything I can do to the water in my bubble cloner to make these damn roots pop...been going 12-13 days now and all I can really see is a couple have 1 tiny root, but it's up high, just under the neoprene puck (where I had cut off the lowest leaves)
I want 2 start a grow journal, but am not entirely sure how, any advice available...would be greatly appreciated.
(do I just go to grow journals>add a new thread>and post, if so, how do I link it to my signature, just c/p the page and put it under sig?
Thank you all who have offered much valued assistance so far, though I did lose one of my 1st 2 plants (northern lights) it was just beyond my skill level to bring back, but the other 2 that were sick look sooo much better and tons of new, undamaged growth (not even yellow!!) lol
Will attach a pic or two to give the visual...so if I cut the 3rd generation stuff, this should really thin her out and maybe she'll put all that energy into growing UP!
BTW..the pics 2 and 3 are the same plants, and they are now in 3 gal pots This one is anyway, I wanted to wait on the runt till I see roots on the bottom..
Also..I have a friend I met this past yr and she has grown for many yrs..she has these 5 gal pots she uses, with a hole on each side of the bottom that she places a 12" peice of cotton wicking across the bottom and dangles the remaining 7-8 inches on each side down into the nute bucket, then covers it with soil, adds plant, and she says she never hits the soil with water, the pvc pip drilled into the inner pot is where u water, put a gallon or so in the outer bucket, if I hadn't seen the pics of the pound plus harvests per plant I wouldn't have believed it, but with that kind of yield I thought it was worth a try on a few plants, anyone do only bottom watering?
If educated on this, anyone know why a plant would do better like that?
And I just realized the plant says NYC Diesel..that was before someone told me different..lol

Sounds like a crappy dispensary, each clone should be labeled
 

fatboyOGOF

Well-Known Member
Or you could just use your fingers and use a pinching motion involving your nails :P

While huge colas LOOK cool, they aren't very marketable (if that's what you do), won't dry/cure right and have to be cut down to pieces to cure, really. Or else you'll get a big smell mold-nugget, been there, done that, smoked it anyway.
my first few grows, i'd keep the colas together just because they looked so cool. now i chop those fuckers into bite sized pieces! :)
 

Boobonik

Member
Ok ok, one more question. So you cut all the branches but 5 to get 5 colas? And now you are tryin to for 20 by having 20 branches?
 

C.Indica

Well-Known Member
Ok ok, one more question. So you cut all the branches but 5 to get 5 colas? And now you are tryin to for 20 by having 20 branches?
Well yes and no.
Due to various factors I don't have a regular grow going on right now.
I'm only flowering one little 3" clone for single cola.

But once I get my 400w up, I'll probably do 4 plants, 20 colas each. No popcorn buds.

Hopefully this will keep all the buds small enough to fully ripen.
 

C.Indica

Well-Known Member
No not at all, all I'm saying is remove branches when they first appear, rather than when they're 5" long and you decide you don't want them.

How you remove branches and top is up to you.
I topped once for 5 branches, and then removed all side branches on each branch, resulting in 5 buds.
As apposed to the 30-60 something budsites on a natural shape plant.
 
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