Problem Child

SmokeUmPipe

Well-Known Member
Alright I have this crystal plant and its on its 4th week of flower starting sunday...I cant figure out what the hell is wrong with it...the bottom 1/4 of the plants leaves started turning yellow so I thought it may just be light def. but now its progressed about 1/2 up the plant and I feel like I've tried everything...I flushed it and let it be, didnt work, I gave it higher doses of nutes, didnt work, I've foliar feed with some nitrogen thinking it might be that, didnt work, I keep the light as close as possible without it burning the plant...It seems like every two days I come home from work its progressed a little more...the leaves at the tops of the branches are still green and the main cola leaves but I think they might start turning if I cant figure this out...The leaves start out a nice green but then they just fade to yellow in no paticular fashion it seems such as margins to tips or tips to margins the whole leaf just kinda starts turning...quick replys are appreciated as I really want to fix this..but any helpful replys are definently appreciated too.
 
Did you transplant lately? If so, did you use the same kind of soil/grow medium? Could it be a Ph problem? Is the size of that pot big enough for that plant?
 
I havent transplanted??? I checked pH last time I water which was I believe sunday...and the soil was in the 6.5 range and the nute/water I used to water with was like 6.8...the pot is a 10in pot which I think is around 2.5 - 3 gallons..I was thinking about transplanting it to see if this would fix it but I was told a 2.5 gallon would be alright for this strain and it probably wouldnt be worth is in the long run because of stress
 
Everyone just thank Mogie again for this invaluable reference material
brought to you in part thanks to dankciti :blsmoke:

To use the Problem-Solver, simply start at #1 below. When you think you've found the problem, read the Nutrients section to learn more about it. Diagnose carefully before making major changes.

1) If the problem affects only the bottom or middle of the plant go to #2. b) If it affects only the top of the plant or the growing tips, skip to #10. If the problem seems to affect the entire plant equally, skip to #6.

2) Leaves are a uniform yellow or light green; leaves die & drop; growth is slow. Leaf margins are not curled-up noticeably. >> Nitrogen(N) deficiency. b) If not, go to #3.

3) Margins of the leaves are turned up, and the tips may be twisted. Leaves are yellowing (and may turn brown), but the veins remain somewhat green. >> Magnesium (Mg) deficiency. b) If not, go to #4.

4) Leaves are browning or yellowing. Yellow, brown, or necrotic (dead) patches, especially around the edges of the leaf, which may be curled. Plant may be too tall. >> Potassium (K) deficiency. b) If not, keep reading.

5) Leaves are dark green or red/purple. Stems and petioles may have purple & red on them. Leaves may turn yellow or curl under. Leaf may drop easily. Growth may be slow and leaves may be small. >> Phosphorus(P) deficiency. b) If not, go to #6.

6) Tips of leaves are yellow, brown, or dead. Plant otherwise looks healthy & green. Stems may be soft >> Over-fertilization (especially N), over-watering, damaged roots, or insufficient soil aeration (use more sand or perlite. Occasionally due to not enough N, P, or K. b) If not, go to #7.

7) Leaves are curled under like a ram's horn, and are dark green, gray, brown, or gold. >> Over-fertilization (too much N). b) If not, go to #8…

FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT="The plant is wilted, even though the soil is moist. >> Over-fertilization, soggy soil, damaged roots, disease; copper deficiency (very unlikely). b) If not, go to #9.

9) Plants won't flower, even though they get 12 hours of darkness for over 2 weeks. >> The night period is not completely dark. Too much nitrogen. Too much pruning or cloning. b) If not, go to #10...

10) Leaves are yellow or white, but the veins are mostly green. >> Iron (Fe) deficiency. b) If not, go to #11.

11) Leaves are light green or yellow beginning at the base, while the leaf margins remain green. Necrotic spots may be between veins. Leaves are not twisted. >> Manganese (Mn) deficiency. b) If not, #12.

12) Leaves are twisted. Otherwise, pretty much like #11. >> Zinc (Zn) deficiency. b) If not, #13.

13) Leaves twist, then turn brown or die. >> The lights are too close to the plant. Rarely, a Calcium (Ca) or Boron (B) deficiency. b) If not… You may just have a weak plant.


The Nutrients:

Nitrogen - Plants need lots of N during vegging, but it's easy to overdo it. Added too much? Flush the soil with plain water. Soluble nitrogen (especially nitrate) is the form that's the most quickly available to the roots, while insoluble N (like urea) first needs to be broken down by microbes in the soil before the roots can absorb it. Avoid excessive ammonium nitrogen, which can interfere with other nutrients. Too much N delays flowering. Plants should be allowed to become N-deficient late in flowering for best flavor.

Magnesium - Mg-deficiency is pretty common since marijuana uses lots of it and many fertilizers don't have enough of it. Mg-deficiency is easily fixed with ¼ teaspoon/gallon of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water) or foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart. When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil for Mg. Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.

Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency. Sources of high salinity are: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate "pH-up"), too much manure, and the use of water-softening filters (which should not be used). If the problem is Na, flush the soil. K can get locked up from too much Ca or ammonium nitrogen, and possibly cold weather.

Phosphorous - Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Red petioles and stems are a normal, genetic characteristic for many varieties, plus it can also be a co-symptom of N, K, and Mg-deficiencies, so red stems are not a foolproof sign of P-deficiency. Too much P can lead to iron deficiency.

Iron - Fe is unavailable to plants when the pH of the water or soil is too high. If deficient, lower the pH to about 6.5 (for rockwool, about 5.7), and check that you're not adding too much P, which can lock up Fe. Use iron that's chelated for maximum availability. Read your fertilizer's ingredients - chelated iron might read something like "iron EDTA". To much Fe without adding enough P can cause a P-deficiency.

Manganese - Mn gets locked out when the pH is too high, and when there's too much iron. Use chelated Mn.

Zinc - Also gets locked out due to high pH. Zn, Fe, and Mn deficiencies often occur together, and are usually from a high pH. Don't overdo the micro-nutrients-lower the pH if that's the problem so the nutrients become available. Foliar feed if the plant looks real bad. Use chelated zinc.

Check Your Water - Crusty faucets and shower heads mean your water is "hard," usually due to too many minerals. Tap water with a TDS (total dissolved solids) level of more than around 200ppm (parts per million) is "hard" and should be looked into, especially if your plants have a chronic problem. Ask your water company for an analysis listing, which will usually list the pH, TDS, and mineral levels (as well as the pollutants, carcinogens, etc) for the tap water in your area. This is a common request, especially in this day and age, so it shouldn't raise an eyebrow. Regular water filters will not reduce a high TDS level, but the costlier reverse-osmosis units, distillers, and de-ionizers will. A digital TDS meter (or EC = electrical conductivity meter) is an incredibly useful tool for monitoring the nutrient levels of nutrient solution, and will pay for itself before you know it. They run about $40 and up.

General Feeding Tips - Pot plants are very adaptable, but a general rule of thumb is to use more nitrogen & less phosphorous during the vegetative period, and the exact opposite during the flowering period. For the veg. period try a N:P:K ratio of about 10:7:8 (which of course is the same ratio as 20:14:16), and for flowering plants, 4:8:8. Check the pH after adding nutrients. If you use a reservoir, keep it circulating and change it every 2 weeks. A general guideline for TDS levels is as follows:
seedlings = 50-150 ppm; unrooted clones = 100-350 ppm; small plants = 400-800 ppm; large plants = 900-1800 ppm; last week of flowering = taper off to plain water. These numbers are just a guideline, and many factors can change the actual level the plants will need. Certain nutrients are "invisible" to TDS meters, especially organics, so use TDS level only as an estimate of actual nutrient levels. When in doubt about a new fertilizer, follow the fertilizer's directions for feeding tomatoes. Grow a few tomato or radish plants nearby for comparison.

PH - The pH of water after adding any nutrients should be around 5.9-6.5 (in rockwool, 5.5-6.1). Generally speaking, the micro-nutrients (Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu) get locked out at a high pH (alkaline) above 7.0, while the major nutrients (N, P, K, Mg) can be less available in acidic soil or water (below 5.0). Tap water is often too alkaline. Soils with lots of peat or other organic matter in them tend to get too acidic, which some dolomite lime will help fix. Soil test kits vary in accuracy, and generally the more you pay the better the accuracy. For the water, color-based pH test kits from aquarium stores are inexpensive, but inaccurate. Invest in a digital pH meter ($40-80), preferably a waterproof one. You won't regret it.

Cold - Cold weather (below 50F/10C) can lock up phosphorous. Some
varieties, like equatorial sativas, don't take well to cold weather. If you can keep the roots warmer, the plant will be able to take cooler temps than it otherwise could.

Heat - If the lights are too close to the plant, the tops may be curled, dry, and look burnt, mimicking a nutrient problem. Your hand should not feel hot after a minute when you hold it at the top of the plants. Raise the lights and/or aim a fan at the hot zone. Room temps should be kept under 85F (29C) -- or 90F (33) if you add additional CO2.

Humidity - Thin, shriveled leaves can be from low humidity. 40-80 % is usually fine.
Mold and Fungus - Dark patchy areas on leaves and buds can be mold. Lower the humidity and increase the ventilation if mold is a problem. Remove any dead leaves, wherever they are. Keep your garden clean.
Insects - White spots on the tops of leaves can mean spider mites
underneath.
Sprays - Foliar sprays can have a "magnifying glass" effect under bright lights, causing small white, yellow or burnt spots which can be confused with a nutrient problem. Some sprays can also cause chemical reactions.
Insufficient light - tall, stretching plants are usually from using the wrong kind of light.. Don't use regular incandescent bulbs ("grow bulbs") or halogens to grow cannabis. Invest in fluorescent lighting (good) or HID lighting (much better) which supply the high-intensity light
that cannabis needs for good growth and tight buds. Even better, grow in sunlight.
Clones - yellowing leaves on unrooted clones can be from too much light, or the stem may not be firmly touching the rooting medium. Turn off any CO2 until they root. Too much fertilizer can shrivel or wilt clones - plain tap water is fine.
 
yeah I think and have been thinking its nitrogen def. but everytime I foliar feed or water with a good N fert it doesnt seem to change much maybe delay it slightly...today I sprayed it with a kind of heavy concentration of N(foliar feed wise) and I'll see what happens tomorrow...according to the chart you got there to much N will delay flowering..since I'm already in flowering does that still apply?? Or does it slow down flowering?? I was thinking it might thats why I havent been wanting to give a big dose of N in fears of slowing or reducing yield
 
[SIZE=+1]Mobile Nutrients[/SIZE]

Nitrogen

Plants suffering from this deficiency are distinct in their pattern of yellowing. Yellowing starts on the older leaves and progresses upward, leaving the top parts of the plant green.
Notice that the large fan leaves are yellowing and turning purple-ish. from the bottom up.

Feeding with a high N fert will clear it up, like an emulsion of fish at 5-1-1.

Phosphorous

Phosphorous is used for plant energy by being assimilated into molecules called Adenosine-tri-phosphate, or ATP. This molecule is necessary for any plant activity that requires energy such as root growth, flowering, respiration, and vegetative growth.




Phosphorous deficiencies are distinct. Purple stems, leaf stems, leaf veins and stunted growth are a sure sign of a Phosphorous deficiency. Leaves will also tend to be smaller and dark green, and may or may not include necrotic patches. Bud size will be smaller and underdeveloped, as will the root mass.

A good all-around fertilizer like Peter's 20-20-20 will clear this up.





Potassium
Potassium serves to aid in the process of photosynthesis, nutrient uptake, respiration, and is a key to sturdy stems and disease resistance.

Leaves will eventually turn yellow, brown and die off. Most of the plants that show signs of a Potassium deficiency are going to be the tallest and best looking plants you have.

Again, feeding with a good all-around fertilizer will clear it up as well.


[SIZE=+1]Minor Nutrients[/SIZE]

Chances of seeing anything but an Iron deficiency are slim, but when pushing the envelope with HID?s and CO2 enrichment, they will pop up from time to time. Most are seen, if ever, in outdoor grows.

Magnesium
Chlorophyll has the same structure as Hemoglobin, except that it has a magnesium atom in place of the Iron atom. Chlorophyll is how plants make sugars to feed the process of building ATP through the Krebs cycle.





A magnesium deficient plant is identified by intervenial chlorosis, necrosis, and eventually a lockout of plant nutrients. The problems starts at the bottom of the plants and works it?s way up.









These images depict different stages and signs of a magnesium deficiency. The first picture is a Mg deficient plant in flower, and the second two are of the leaves to show what I mean by Intervenial Chlorosis.

Treating with an Epsom salts mix will clear this right up.





Sulphur
Sulphur is an important element in the structures of amino acids and proteins, and is needed for normal plant respiration and metabolism of sugars and other compounds.

If you ever see this in your plants, then you can be assured that you have this deficiency. Look for yellowing starting from the top, and progressing down, including the veins of the leaves. Treat the same as a Mg deficiency.


Calcium
Calcium is an important co-enzyme in the production of fatty acids, cell membranes, and is necessary for normal mitosis/cell division. A Ca deficiency will stunt plant growth. Acidic soils may increase the risk of a Ca def.




[SIZE=+1]Trace Elements[/SIZE]

The six trace elements of Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese, Molybdenum, and Zinc are not required in large quantities, but are important in the transfer of energy in plant processes.

Boron
This is a rare occurrence and is exemplified by small gray or necrotic patches on the growing shoots which eventually die.

This will most likely occur in outdoor grows.





Copper
A copper deficiency is commonly mistaken for an over fertilization problem, but it is set apart by the growing tips dieing off first along with the crispy leaves. The new shoots will die from the tips and margins first, often going brown or even white before they die.

A foliar feeding with a commercial fungicide containing Copper (ie. Copper Sulphate) will clear it up, but the damaged leaves may never recover.






Iron
An Iron deficiency will mask a Magnesium deficiency. If you look at the newer growth, that will be where the plant exhibits the intervenial chlorosis typically differentiating it from a Magnesium deficiency.




Notice how the top of the plant is exhibiting intervenial chlorosis and the lower part is unaffected.





Manganese
A Manganese deficiency exhibits a general chlorosis, followed by yellowing patches and necrotic patches between the veins of the larger fan leaves.




Molybdenum
A Molybdenum deficient plant will exhibit yellowing necrotic leaves from the tips inward, with necrotic lesions present from the tips inward. A very distinctive feature is that it occurs in the middle of the plant. It also may spread to the rest of the plant if not stopped, eventually killing your plant.

Fritted Trace Elements may be added to your soil mix as you prepare it for planting. A good Hydroponic nutrient should contain ample micros to get your plant through its lifecycle.



Zinc
A Zinc deficient plant is obvious from the wispy new growth with twisted leaflets at 90°. There is also intervenial chlorosis at the top of the plant that is commonly confused with an Iron deficiency.



[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
 
dude (N) deficiency is perfectly normal in the flowering stage so dont trip. just bump it up a little bit but dont over do it. Remember you need to give at least 1-2 weeks of flushing before your done budding to remove all the nutes from the plant so ur buds dont taste like shit.
 
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