Please help - possible root rot or pythium

Discussion in 'Marijuana Plant Problems' started by ntrlslctn, Mar 13, 2018.

  1.  
    ntrlslctn

    ntrlslctn Member

    Hi I'm new to the site, I just completed my first run without any major issues and had good results. Now in my second run with a different strain they were doing even better for first 4 weeks or so but now I am having a particularly difficult issue to resolve and am looking for help.

    Plant just completed 7 weeks of veg, though this issue emerged around week 4 and has severely stunted growth in recent weeks. Plants showing exhibiting slow growth, short node intervals, droopy pale leaves show a variety of stress but often wrinkled or blotchy-nutrients being pulled completely from older fan leaves, dark purple stems, some red leaf veins. Young inner growth is darker and lusher.

    I believe the issue is related to root rot/pythium. I think I was being lazy about draining water from trays after watering, leaving roots exposed to standing water. I noticed this was causing the normally healthy white roots at the bottom of my pots to appear brown and burnt, and some had a fuzzy gray mold or fungus growing on them. Algae has been appearing in my tray water. My initial response was to spray roots with neem oil, clean and disinfect trays and improve my watering/draining practices. I lowered temp and relative humidity slightly to around 65F and 50% RH. When this didn't do it, I popped the plants out of their pots and noticed almost the entire rootball appeared healthy white and vigorous except the very bottom. I pruned away the nasty bits, disinfected my pots with h202 and repotted. The next two days I watered with h202 at 15ml per gallon. Next day added compost tea. 3 days later I began adding hydroguard at 2 ml/gallon. I am hoping hydro guard will do it but am looking for confirmation of this approach/diagnosis.

    A little bit about my setup, 4x8 tent with 6 plants-3 bruce banner and 3 stardawg clones. I use yellow 2.2gallon airpots with coco coir (60% organic coco, 30% organic perlite, 5% guano 5% EWC). I inoculated with great white, endo mycchorizal fungi, down to earth beneficial bacteria/mycchorizal fungi. I have added compost tea a few times during establishment. I feed with general organics nutrient line about twice a week with RO water that is naturally at about 7.0-7.3 but I adjust with earth juice to around 5.8-6.4. I go by the GH drops to measure pH, but my Jellas temp-controlled ph meter routinely measures about .5 pH high than I think it is so I wonder about my pH. ppm has been reading single digits like 7 or 9ppm so I don't know if that's right. For the first few weeks my pH was naturally around 6.4 so I wasn't adjusting it, so maybe that's when the issue started? I have two 600W LEDs on 18/6 and temp is usually 72F and RH around 60%. I have two exhale 365 c02 bags and filter my air coming in and have good air circulation.

    Interestingly, I have 2 plants-one of each strain- I set aside as mothers in 3.6 gal green airpots with FFOF that I watered and fed about half as much so they didn't see as much moisture. They are much healthier and larger though they may be exhibiting the symptoms to a lesser degree. They are now in a separate room under a spectrum king closet case 400W LED.

    I am including photos of affected plant next to a healthy(healthier) mother plant from same clone batch. If the form of the plant looks strange it is because I did a lot of unnecessary LST in anticipation of SCROG that in retrospect feels redundant.

    I think this is root rot/pythium based on the symptoms and difficulty in fixing, but maybe it is just a general pH problem? or both? Can they be saved? If the hydro guard does not fix it I am out of ideas and will begin to think about taking new clones. Please share any ideas/experiences, as well as any other general input on my setup. I can offer more info/photos if necessary. Thanks in advance.

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    Tim1987 likes this.
  2.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    You have a magnesium deficiency. All that purple stems and blotchy leaves. Foliar feed epsom salt every five days at 250-300ppm. Your using ro water but didn't mention any cal mag product. add cal mag as usual and do the foliar feeding of the epsom salt. a microbe treat once a week is fine you dont need a lot as they can reproduce but they do die off to. Just enough so you know you have some working for you. I doubt you have root rot as you said they look fine. Figure out how to read your ppm meter.--------------------Watering with h202 will kill off your good microbes too. Dont do this unless you plan on renuting with a microbe product.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    ntrlslctn likes this.
  3.  
    Tim1987

    Tim1987 Well-Known Member

    Have you checked ph and ppm of the root zone?
    You're locking out on either cal or mag.
    You need to find which one. Also whether you need more or less.
    Flush and get some readings, and let us all know.
    Good luck
    Tim
     
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  4.  
    Tim1987

    Tim1987 Well-Known Member

    Your ones should only take a few hours to recover, after a good flush.
    They're really not that bad mate.
    Just watch for improvement.
    If it doesnt just let us all know.
     
    ntrlslctn likes this.
  5.  
    ntrlslctn

    ntrlslctn Member

    Thanks a lot for all of your help. I should add that I do include calmag in my normal feedings as part of the GO line at their max recommended rate but it’s probably not enough at about twice a week in a soiless medium, I think i’m Going to try feeding every other day. I will try The foliar epsom and I will do a root zone flush and take some readings and share. Thanks again.
     
    Tim1987 likes this.
  6.  
    Tim1987

    Tim1987 Well-Known Member

    I wouldnt worry about the foliar myself.
    Id just get the roots in check.
    Good luck man
    Thanks for the update
     
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  7.  
    ntrlslctn

    ntrlslctn Member

    My working theory is that when I began trying to adjust my pH I was overcorrecting and it was getting too low, probably dipping to or under 6.0 which would be too low for cal and mag uptake, effectively locking these nutrients out.

    As I mentioned in my original post, my drip test seems to indicate a lower pH than my digital reader, by a margin of about .5 . The instructions on General Organics nutrient products say adjusting pH is not necessary, so I left it alone for the first few weeks but then I got the organic pH down product and began adjusting it down in an attempt to "optimize conditions". When I was adjusting my pH for watering and feeding I would use the drip test to try to get about 6.0, around the lower end of the range for coco, so even if my digital meter said 6.5, I figured my “true” pH would be somewhere in the acceptable 6.0-6.5 range which is on the low side but good for coco as I understand. (Also, by adding the soil-like organics to my medium mix, I may have raised the required pH range for my growing medium).

    To illustrate the pH discrepancy, I am including a photo of my water after performing a pH drip test. When compared to the color scale photo from online, I would say my pH is about 6.5. The same sample read 7.2 on my digital meter. Considering the issues I’ve had, I think the drip method readings are more accurate than my digital tester.

    pH color scale.jpg Screen Shot 2018-03-15 at 7.11.21 PM.png

    Today I flushed all plants with 6 gallons each of straight RO water, taking pH and ppm of runoff both before and after the flushing. I then fed with the full GO line(Biothrive 4-3-3, CaMg+, BioWeed 0.2-0-0.3, BioRoot 1-1-1) at recommended rates, forgot to test ppm first but a second batch was around 800ppm. I didn’t mess with the pH of my water for flushing or feeding, just used as is. The pH of my RO water consistently tested 4 ppm and pH of 7.2 digitally, around 6.5 by drips.

    -pH readings are based on digital meter for consistency.
    -Flushing water consistently tested 7.2 pH and 4 ppm.

    runoff test results
    (before flush / after flush / after feeding)
    S1=6.7 pH 118 ppm / 7.1 pH 35 ppm / 5.8 pH 409 ppm
    S2=7.3 pH 712 ppm / 7.1 pH 46 ppm / 5.6 pH 472 ppm
    S3=7.0 pH 175 ppm / 7.1 pH 26 ppm / 6.0 pH 372 ppm
    B1=7.1 pH 164 ppm / 6.9 pH 37 ppm / 5.8 pH 413 ppm
    B2=6.6 pH 138 ppm / 7.1 pH 19 ppm / 6.2 pH 232 ppm
    B3=6.5 pH 153 ppm / 7.1 pH 24 ppm / 5.5 pH 418 ppm

    I'm curious what you make of this, but I think the real pH is lower, and so they were low prior to flushing and I brought them back up a little . Not sure why my runoff post-feed got so low. Also, It's worth noting that Stardawg (S) plants exhibited less symptoms than Bruce Banner (B) plants. Anyways, my hope is that not messing with my pH and keeping them fed will bring them back shortly. I plan to reinnocculate with more microbes soon. Thanks
     
    Tim1987 likes this.
  8.  
    Tim1987

    Tim1987 Well-Known Member

    I myself, have only ever had trouble with cal and mag if my ph is higher than around 6.3. I start to get what looks like deficiency, but is actually tox.
    Check out a nutrient chart on lockout and ph. You'll see that mag needs low, and cal needs high.
    You need to find out which one it likely is. Then supplement a little, and watch for improvement.
    It could be nitrogen as well. You need to find out and make a good guess.
    Id be taking a guess at a little of both. Your ph seems generally in range.
    Do check first though.
    Good luck

    The drops and strips are a good idea too, I use them as well.
     
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  9.  
    ClassicT

    ClassicT Member

    I have been lazy about emptying saucers under my air pots too, cause I figure the roots are suspended slightly above the water line, but once I smelled some funk and that scared me enough to never let it happen again.

    I bought a 2.5 gallon shop vac for $30 at a hardware store, and it makes keeping saucers dry SO easy. One of the most helpful tools I have in my grow honestly.
     
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  10.  
    ntrlslctn

    ntrlslctn Member

    Soo yeah after thinking a little bit about why my runoff was so much lower than my water, I went ahead and tested my nutrient solution and it super low, like in the 4's. Yes I understand this is what I should have been doing all along. Apparently GO is notorious for seriously dropping your pH, not sure how I missed this one, but it pretty much explains everything. Needless to say I've taken some remedial actions, I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for steering me in the right direction.
     
    Tim1987 likes this.
  11.  
    Tim1987

    Tim1987 Well-Known Member

    Not a problem. Glad it helped!!
    Happy grow
     

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