Ph or deficiency

Cbd1981

Cbd1981

Well-Known Member
growing outdoors in 100 gal smart pots.
Berger bm1 mix
Little river compost
Espoma garden tone
Mixed everything when they were put outdoors.
Water ph out of hose is a little over 7. Little purplish from the beginning but more pronounced now they are flowering. 3B12943C-3FD3-4FB0-B7F8-515339591D63.jpegFC8FEBFF-02F1-4149-85CF-FCB842CA7CCC.jpegIt’s not all tops but a few here and there. Thanks
Strains are thunderstruck and have one g13x hashplant that is the worse one.
 
Thegermling

Thegermling

Well-Known Member
Cbd1981 said:
growing outdoors in 100 gal smart pots.
Berger bm1 mix
Little river compost
Espoma garden tone
Mixed everything when they were put outdoors.
Water ph out of hose is a little over 7. Little purplish from the beginning but more pronounced now they are flowering. View attachment 4186352View attachment 4186353It’s not all tops but a few here and there. Thanks
Strains are thunderstruck and have one g13x hashplant that is the worse one.
Click to expand...
Ive had that before. It looks like a phosphorous lockout due to cold temperatures. Or it could be genetics. Im not familiar with that strain.
 
Cbd1981

Cbd1981

Well-Known Member
Thegermling said:
Ive had that before. It looks like a phosphorous lockout due to cold temperatures. Or it could be genetics. Im not familiar with that strain.
Click to expand...
Yeah but the temps haven’t been real cold yet. It’s not the whole plant it’s a few tops here and there. Thanks
 
T

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Hi CBD,

Could be one or the other...Could be both.
You need to take a soil sample, and find what your ph is.

I agree with above, that cold can do what you see. But it's almost always due to calcium. Calcium really isn't very mobile when it's cold.
Though if the days are still warm, and you're not getting any frosts, i wouldn't worry. Soil's a great insulator.

What's in the Espoma garden tone?
Did you lime your soil?

:peace:
 
Cbd1981

Cbd1981

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
Hi CBD,

Could be one or the other...Could be both.
You need to take a soil sample, and find what your ph is.

I agree with above, that cold can do what you see. But it's almost always due to calcium. Calcium really isn't very mobile when it's cold.
Though if the days are still warm, and you're not getting any frosts, i wouldn't worry. Soil's a great insulator.

What's in the Espoma garden tone?
Did you lime your soil?

:peace:
Click to expand...
Soil came with lime already phed the base is Berger bm1 which I know is considered soilless it’s the same as promix. Gave a bloom tea of 3-9-4 dr. Earth flower girl 2 weeks ago.
 
Thegermling

Thegermling

Well-Known Member
I’m sure that’s what it is. If it had purple indoors like on the stems and leafs then it’s genetics. Your stems are green and spots of purple. It’s getting cooler and those girls do not like it.
 
T

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Cbd1981 said:
Soil came with lime already phed the base is Berger bm1 which I know is considered soilless it’s the same as promix. Gave a bloom tea of 3-9-4 dr. Earth flower girl 2 weeks ago.
Click to expand...
Ok,

I'll voice my opinion. Because i believe i know your issue.

First thing is first. Check your ph. It's imperative, so you know what to amend with.

My opinion is you are calcium deficient. You have similar symptoms to blossom end rot.
Calcium is a fixer in soil. Anions like phosphorus attach to calcium.
Phosphorus deficiency does cause purpling. But the chances of being deficient in phosphorus in soil is pretty low.
Phosphorus is also mobile, so deficiency usually first appears in the lower leaves, and stems.
Calcium is generally immobile. So usually yellow tops appear.
Now thing is, calcium binds with phosphorus anions to create Calcium Phosphate.
Imo you have what appears to be phosphorus deficiency in your tops. But it isn't phosphorus deficiency. Its calcium deficiency.
There isn't enough calcium binding with phosphorus to supply your plants.
If your just coming into bloom, then i'd bet its the problem too. Early bloom requires a fair amount of phosphorus.

First, you NEED to check your ph with a soil sample. Dig deep too.
A low ph will lock out calcium. So if the ph reads low (below low 6's), add lime.
If the ph is in range, add gypsum.
If the ph is high. Do not lime at all, and post back here to let us all know.

Lastly, but very lastly. It could be a disease. But this is the last thing you want, and the last thing to consider if all else fails.

Good luck, make sure you update.

Peace,

:peace:
 
Cbd1981

Cbd1981

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
Ok,

I'll voice my opinion. Because i believe i know your issue.

First thing is first. Check your ph. It's imperative, so you know what to amend with.

My opinion is you are calcium deficient. You have similar symptoms to blossom end rot.
Calcium is a fixer in soil. Anions like phosphorus attach to calcium.
Phosphorus deficiency does cause purpling. But the chances of being deficient in phosphorus in soil is pretty low.
Phosphorus is also mobile, so deficiency usually first appears in the lower leaves, and stems.
Calcium is generally immobile. So usually yellow tops appear.
Now thing is, calcium binds with phosphorus anions to create Calcium Phosphate.
Imo you have what appears to be phosphorus deficiency in your tops. But it isn't phosphorus deficiency. Its calcium deficiency.
There isn't enough calcium binding with phosphorus to supply your plants.
If your just coming into bloom, then i'd bet its the problem too. Early bloom requires a fair amount of phosphorus.

First, you NEED to check your ph with a soil sample. Dig deep too.
A low ph will lock out calcium. So if the ph reads low (below low 6's), add lime.
If the ph is in range, add gypsum.
If the ph is high. Do not lime at all, and post back here to let us all know.

Lastly, but very lastly. It could be a disease. But this is the last thing you want, and the last thing to consider if all else fails.

Good luck, make sure you update.

Peace,

:peace:
Click to expand...
Thank you. I’ll post a ph sample tomorrow.
 
T

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Cbd1981 said:
Thank you. I’ll post a ph sample tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Sounds good. No problem.

Cbd1981 said:
Also with my ph of water being a little over 7 coming in wouldn’t that make difference to?
Click to expand...
Na, the soil will buffer itself.
If you have always used the same water, i doubt the water's hard either.
Also calcium, and phosphorus are at their most available, in that 7-7.5 range.
This is why if your ph is high, i'd be inclined to give it some manure, or dynamic lifter, and probably a touch of gypsum too.

But im getting ahead of myself.
I'll await your info.

All the best. Catch you tomorrow.
 
Thegermling

Thegermling

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
Imo you have what appears to be phosphorus deficiency in your tops. But it isn't phosphorus deficiency. Its calcium deficiency.
There isn't enough calcium binding with phosphorus to supply your plants.
Click to expand...
Where did you read this I genuinely would like to know? Also are deficiency and lockout the same thing? I would think not?
 
T

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Thegermling said:
Where did you read this I genuinely would like to know? Also are deficiency and lockout the same thing? I would think not?
Click to expand...
I studied it. Horticulture.
Also i grew up in a veggie patch, with permaculturalist parents, who never use a bottle of anything.

Lockout is the equivalent of deficiency. If lockout isn't due to ph, its antagonism.
Antagonism gives off the effect of looking deficient in something. When in fact there is too much of something, or something else is deficient, and hasn't shown yet.

Research nutrient antagonism. Because often if you are deficient or overdosed with something, then something else is deficient as well.

If you search for calcium phosphate in google it'll give you plenty of information.
Calcium Phosphate is ionic, and is available to plants.
Cations, and anions are not available in the same way. They're to feed the soil, not the plants.

:peace:
 
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Thegermling

Thegermling

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
I studied it. Horticulture.
Also i grew up in a veggie patch, with permaculturalist parents, who never use a bottle of anything.

Lockout is the equivalent of deficiency. If lockout isn't due to ph, its antagonism.
Antagonism gives off the effect of looking deficient in something. When in fact there is too much of something, or something else is deficient, and hasn't shown yet.

Research nutrient antagonism. Because often if you are deficient or overdosed with something, then something else is deficient as well.

If you search for calcium phosphate in google it'll give you plenty of information.
Calcium Phosphate is ionic, and is available to plants.
Cations, and anions are not available in the same way. They're to feed the soil, not the plants.

:peace:
Click to expand...
Yeah I have mulder's chart on hand but I still dont understand the cations and anions part. So I will look into this. Thanks!
 
T

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Thegermling said:
Yeah I have mulder's chart on hand but I still dont understand the cations and anions part. So I will look into this. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Sweet bro.
Dude i give you credit if you can make sense of that chart. I certainly can't.

Fact is too, we still don't know if the problem here is ph lockout, deficiency, or antagonism.
It's all a guessing game. But once we know the ph of the soil, then we can make an extremely good guess.
As i stated, we might need to add some manure or similar depending. Manure is generally high in phosphorus.

We still don't know the answer. But the ph of the soil will hopefully tell a lot of the story.

:peace:
 
Thegermling

Thegermling

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
Sweet bro.
Dude i give you credit if you can make sense of that chart. I certainly can't.

Fact is too, we still don't know if the problem here is ph lockout, deficiency, or antagonism.
It's all a guessing game. But once we know the ph of the soil, then we can make an extremely good guess.
As i stated, we might need to add some manure or similar depending. Manure is generally high in phosphorus.

We still don't know the answer. But the ph of the soil will hopefully tell a lot of the story.

:peace:
Click to expand...
Hell no, I thought I did. Im looking online on how to read that chart :mrgreen:
 
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