PH and organics?

madvillian420

Well-Known Member
For my first grow, i was under the tutelage of an old school organic head. His belief and teaching was that you dont need to monitor organic grows for PH, as long as you have a good soil mix, youre not using tap water and little or no bottled stuff. Do you guys all monitor your PH regularly?
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
For my first grow, i was under the tutelage of an old school organic head. His belief and teaching was that you dont need to monitor organic grows for PH, as long as you have a good soil mix, youre not using tap water and little or no bottled stuff. Do you guys all monitor your PH regularly?
while it sounds good... it's not entirely true. I've come to the conclusion that there is a relevance of pH even when growing organically. If your pH approaches neutral throughout your entire pot, you have decreased solubility of key minerals like phosphorous and your photosynthetic catalysts (Fe, Mn, Zn, Cu, etc). Now your microbes may assist in the breakdown and delivery of some of these nutrients, but the solubility of these nutrients is still relevant because you want mineral diffusion to happen in your soil. The microbes can assist in delivery around the root zone... but you still need to be able to use water to mobilize nutrients throughout the medium because there are some that are in plant available form.

I've experienced this first hand. Massive decreased yields when pH is not on point. Get pH right (usually by starting a fresh mix) and boom yields back where they should be.

Another thing I'm discovering... pH of rain water is around 5.6-5.7 due to formation of carbonic acid in the atmosphere from exposure to CO2... so when pH is creeping up in a container, I see no issue with adding some citric acid crystals to lower the pH of the water and offset some of that alkalinity (which comes from CaCO3 most often). Neutralize the base with acid (which also creates available Ca) and lower the pH back where it should be.

Some will not share this philosophy... but pH is most certainly relevant IMO.
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
It is very relevant but also very hard to change in good soil. You have to start with a known soil recipe that will work for you and let the soil do the phing for you. PHing the food/water is not going to help at all. Pay special attention to the moisture lvl of your soil and the appearance of the plants, that's whats most important right now.
 

Jimmy the vest uk

Well-Known Member
I stopped ph,ing a year or so ago in soil after reading it wasnt necessary in organics and after reading this i think i too may have seen a drop in yield, i been wondering whats been doing it last few runs, its that or these thrips keep denting my yield, im gonna ph for a whole cycle again, it will be easy to see as i have been working with 1 strain for a while now so i will try remember come back here in the future and share my results, glad i read this thread now
 

Jimmy the vest uk

Well-Known Member
I stopped ph,ing a year or so ago in soil after reading it wasnt necessary in organics and after reading this i think i too may have seen a drop in yield, i been wondering whats been doing it last few runs, its that or these thrips keep denting my yield, im gonna ph for a whole cycle again, it will be easy to see as i have been working with 1 strain for a while now so i will try remember come back here in the future and share my results, glad i read this thread now
Just thought can i use ph up and down if im using great white microbes?
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Just thought can i use ph up and down if im using great white microbes?
i wouldnt mix the microbes in the same jug as the ph up or down. use the microbes seperate. NO chemicals are good for bacteria but we still dont know which bacterias will actually die. (unless you replant the plant into different soil , the ph of your soil will not change with just ph up or down. My knowledge says it will not help AT ALL an may even hurt your grow. PH is for hydro guys PERIOD. you cannot determine the "accurate" ph of your soil without a lab and a lot of time and money. The PH of the water/food you put into that soil will change to the soil's PH VERY FAST.

i used to feed with 4.0 (earthjuice food) my plants never died nor did they need ph up. i dont care for that food line but i made my point)


soil
 

madvillian420

Well-Known Member
i used to feed with 4.0 (earthjuice food) my plants never died nor did they need ph up. i dont care for that food line but i made my point)


soil
Why dont you like it? Have you switched to a different brand of bottled organic nutes? I have some earth juice veg thats been laying around for a few years i planned on using when my plants are big enough
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Why dont you like it? Have you switched to a different brand of bottled organic nutes? I have some earth juice veg thats been laying around for a few years i planned on using when my plants are big enough
My ONLY issue with EJ was that i got too much of it and it went bad pretty quick. the bloom was all chunky, i believe i still used the grow even after a couple years of laying around. But all organic liquids are going to go bad fairly quick .....its just part of trying to be fully organic. At that time in my life I needed to switch to something more "instant" then fully organic liquid could give me. I aint been in the market for a few years but im sure they make way better liquid organics then they used to.
 
First time grower, I’ve been phing everything I put in my plants, well water is 7.6 ish, ph to 6.5, ffof soil, general organics go box, 6 weeks in the soil, fertilized the first time at 1/4 strength of chart, watered, then fed at 3/4 strength because they were showing signs of deficiency, seem to being fine, but it was a bitch to get nutes to a ph of 6.2ish and a ppm around 1100 going in.
 
After adding nutes I was at 1800ppm going in, after diluting with water multiple times and phing I finally got it to 1100 ppm, and 6.2ish. If it’s all organic, I’m all for just phing the nutes and feeding, Is that a problem?
 

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
After adding nutes I was at 1800ppm going in, after diluting with water multiple times and phing I finally got it to 1100 ppm, and 6.2ish. If it’s all organic, I’m all for just phing the nutes and feeding, Is that a problem?
I stopped worrying with the ph in soil. I’ve got some of that good Michigan well water about 200ppm and just let them go.
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
After adding nutes I was at 1800ppm going in, after diluting with water multiple times and phing I finally got it to 1100 ppm, and 6.2ish. If it’s all organic, I’m all for just phing the nutes and feeding, Is that a problem?
You got good soil , no need to ph anything. you can test your ppm for your own personal reasons but true organics will not read correctly on a ppm meter .....long story short , the meter reads "salt" contents (metals) and a lot of organics are not in salt form ....yet.
You can ph to anything you want and the soil will buffer it to what the soil is , not the water. complete waste of ph up or down (organic or not)
 

Jimmy the vest uk

Well-Known Member
i wouldnt mix the microbes in the same jug as the ph up or down. use the microbes seperate. NO chemicals are good for bacteria but we still dont know which bacterias will actually die. (unless you replant the plant into different soil , the ph of your soil will not change with just ph up or down. My knowledge says it will not help AT ALL an may even hurt your grow. PH is for hydro guys PERIOD. you cannot determine the "accurate" ph of your soil without a lab and a lot of time and money. The PH of the water/food you put into that soil will change to the soil's PH VERY FAST.

i used to feed with 4.0 (earthjuice food) my plants never died nor did they need ph up. i dont care for that food line but i made my point)
 

Jimmy the vest uk

Well-Known Member
Yeah i dont really wanna be adding that acid stuff to my water your right i been getting on ok without it.
I think i just remembered that i stopped ph adjusting my feed in order to strart using the great white microbes about a year ago.
Initially i saw a massive improvement from the first feed, it was something i will never forget it was really obvious. My next question is do younthink adding great white to your feed schedule might mean you have to add more nutrients compared to when your not using them?
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Yeah i dont really wanna be adding that acid stuff to my water your right i been getting on ok without it.
I think i just remembered that i stopped ph adjusting my feed in order to strart using the great white microbes about a year ago.
Initially i saw a massive improvement from the first feed, it was something i will never forget it was really obvious. My next question is do younthink adding great white to your feed schedule might mean you have to add more nutrients compared to when your not using them?
No but great white is a great pile of beneficial bacteria to add to your soil. I feed the same with or without. If you have a good supersoil or organic soil then the microbes will help to create a lil bit more food for your girls but if they look hungry , they probably are.
 

Jimmy the vest uk

Well-Known Member
No but great white is a great pile of beneficial bacteria to add to your soil. I feed the same with or without. If you have a good supersoil or organic soil then the microbes will help to create a lil bit more food for your girls but if they look hungry , they probably are.
I was under the assumption that the microbes consume the nutrients then basically crap them out again and the plant can absorb them in this broken down state easier, is that right? I cant get my head around it, my plants definitely grow bigger and faster when using great white and i hate to add extra nutrients but they seem to be asking for it. By the way i have been working with a strain for a while now so i was used to feeding her right but after adding great white it just seems she wants more! Maybe its all in my head lol
 

Jimmy the vest uk

Well-Known Member
I was under the assumption that the microbes consume the nutrients then basically crap them out again and the plant can absorb them in this broken down state easier, is that right? I cant get my head around it, my plants definitely grow bigger and faster when using great white and i hate to add extra nutrients but they seem to be asking for it. By the way i have been working with a strain for a while now so i was used to feeding her right but after adding great white it just seems she wants more! Maybe its all in my head lol
I just started another cycle but i changed my soil from light mix to all mix which is basically the more fertilized version so hopefully i will have a better run this time and i suspect i may need to reduce my liquid fertilizer, well hopefully
 
Top