Organic vs Synthetic and nitrate vs ammonia/urea

and synthetic urea, miracle grow....

When it comes to feeding, many people have a misconception that there are 2 types... Synthetic and non-synthetic. Tthis distinction is superficial and there are better distinctions, but these are almost always overlooked, especially by organic heads.

Something is organic when it contains C and H. Limestone is inorganic. (all minerals are inorganic). Most of dirt is inorganic. Soil is mined. Plants only want phosphates in inorganic form.

Synthetic just means man made. It tells you very little about the properties of a chemical. Urea is an organic substance that is also synthetic and is the main ingredient to miracle grow, peters, jacks, etc.

Hydroponic formulas use nitrate salts to provide N and Ca instead of synthetic urea. Get out of your minds that hydroponic = synthetic. Organic is also synthetic. Hydroponic is "nitrate salts".

The best way to feed friendly bacteria is synthetic urea. If you want a living soil, use miracle grow, and stop trying to feed your nitrifying bacteria carbs!! Only bad bacteria eat carbs. Your bacteria friends eat miracle grow, not molasses.

What a bullshit post

Wouldnt molassas be synthetic since its a man made by product by what your saying? Ive just recently stopped using foxfarm chaching as my last feed before i start fading my girls and switched to blackstrap molasses. The girls definitely have more odor since switching to molasses. I figured it was from the npk of cha ching being so high in phosphorus ruining some flavor and smell.

More important then synthetic vs organic is understanding npk formulas for every stage of life like the lucas formula. Once you understand what the plant needs and how much of each macro and micro it doesnt matter what the source is the plant doesnt care. I see people posting i feed at 900ppm all the time but what they dont seem to understand is what that 900ppm actually is once broken down into npk formula. They could be feeding 2x amount of one of the npks and have no clue too it. More people need to learn about what there actually feeding and not just go by the labels on the bottles because there being lied to by the nutrient companies.

I personally use a modified headz/lucas formula. 135-50-185-55-130 i think is what i found works best for me and my water source in full bloom. I wish there was more talk about formulas and less about source of where nutrients come from.

I like worms. I let the plant and microbes measure

Rrog said:

I like worms. I let the plant and microbes measure

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I used worm casting 15 or so years ago. It worked ok, just wasnt my thing. To each his own buddy i got nothing against organics or synthetics, i just like a more scientific approach im able to do with synthetics. Do you have any idea of your nutrient formula elemental npk parts per million ratios are or you just mixing your soil and using what you found works best for you?

Well, if you're growing in soil there's really nothing better than homemade vermicompost, biologically speaking

Rrog said:

Well, if you're growing in soil there's really nothing better than homemade vermicompost, biologically speaking

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Thats more your personal opinion then anything which is fine by me. I just wish more people understand what our plants actual need at all stages of life and werent just blindly following what nutrient companies or people say with out figuring out a method/recipe that works for themselves.

Not hyperbole. Anything you're going to get in a bag clearly is not going to help the plant ultimately with its immune system response or predation. Compost is better but specifically Vermicompost has shown to best assist the plant with its immunological needs. In peer-reviewed studies, Vermicompost applied to the soil directly imparts pest and disease resistance, and broader Immune system response to the phyllosphere several feet above the soil.

You're not getting that from a bag

Nor is your vermicompost hitting the correct npk ratio for the entire plants cycle like nutrients out of a bottle can hit, my opinion from experience. Do you actually know what your feeding npk ratios are? Im not talking 2-1-1 at best which vermicompost is roughly, im talking part per millions (500ppm=1ec scale) by the element.

booms111 said:

Nor is your vermicompost hitting the correct npk ratio for the entire plants cycle like nutrients out of a bottle can hit, my opinion from experience. Do you actually know what your feeding npk ratios are? Im not talking 2-1-1 at best which vermicompost is roughly, im talking part per millions (500ppm=1ec scale) by the element.

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I doubt anyone is using EWC as their sole source of nutrients, that's not what it is for.
Posting in this thread really is against my better judgement, as the entire point of it is to instigate disharmony
just my interpretation of it anyways, the only thing that would make it more obvious to me is if the OP posted it in the organic section.
We could talk about flushing, and LEDs VS HIDs also..
And besides asking an organic guy about PH or PPMs is silly, we don't worry about all of that stuff man. Nature does, those microbes are your buddy, I don't need to check a damn thing, I water them, and give them light, and that's alllllll I do.
seems a lil simpler than checking stuff every day.
I reaaaally think it's important to note that it's a PREFERENCE or maybe even to some, a philosophy.

Well said man!

greasemonkeymann said:

I doubt anyone is using EWC as their sole source of nutrients, that's not what it is for.
Posting in this thread really is against my better judgement, as the entire point of it is to instigate disharmony
just my interpretation of it anyways, the only thing that would make it more obvious to me is if the OP posted it in the organic section.
We could talk about flushing, and LEDs VS HIDs also..
And besides asking an organic guy about PH or PPMs is silly, we don't worry about all of that stuff man. Nature does, those microbes are your buddy, I don't need to check a damn thing, I water them, and give them light, and that's alllllll I do.
seems a lil simpler than checking stuff every day.
I reaaaally think it's important to note that it's a PREFERENCE or maybe even to some, a philosophy.

Click to expand...

booms111 said:

I used worm casting 15 or so years ago. It worked ok, just wasnt my thing. To each his own buddy i got nothing against organics or synthetics, i just like a more scientific approach im able to do with synthetics. Do you have any idea of your nutrient formula elemental npk parts per million ratios are or you just mixing your soil and using what you found works best for you?

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one of the things that is crucial for EWC to be effective is it's freshness.
if you used bagged worm castings it's not the same thing.
sorta like comparing a sirloin hamburger to a mcdonalds hamburger..
sure they are the same thing but.....

greasemonkeymann said:

one of the things that is crucial for EWC to be effective is it's freshness.
if you used bagged worm castings it's not the same thing.
sorta like comparing a sirloin hamburger to a mcdonalds hamburger..
sure they are the same thing but.....

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When i used castings it was made by my local nursery, small family mom and pop shop. Was nice stuff.

Bottle feeding I won't comment on at all.

For true soil, NPK is irrelevant to a large degree. Microbes issue the nutes as the plant wants, not how you load the soil...

My statement about vermicompost stands

Urea is organic and synthetic.

If you want to grow in dirt or a potting mix fortified with lime, use miracle grow or jacks. If you want to grow hydroponically, use nitrate salts. If you have deep pockets and you're somewhat foolish, or you just want a neat hobby, go the "organic" route.

Beneficial bacteria love miracle grow.

The best way to grow tomatoes is hydroponically with nitrate salts, hands down. It yields the best, provides the best flavor, requires the least amount of pesticides, and provides the most nutritional content. Organic and conventional farming using synthetic urea lacks in all these categories, and has a high risk of contamination of heavy metals due to the nature of being non-purified ore (dirt).

booms111 said:

I wish there was more talk about formulas and less about source of where nutrients come from.

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This is my thoughts exactly. Where it comes from is superficial.

Rrog said:

Bottle feeding I won't comment on at all.

For true soil, NPK is irrelevant to a large degree. Microbes issue the nutes as the plant wants, not how you load the soil...

My statement about vermicompost stands

Click to expand...

you never bottled fed a plant before

greasemonkeymann said:

Posting in this thread really is against my better judgement, as the entire point of it is to instigate disharmony
just my interpretation of it anyways, the only thing that would make it more obvious to me is if the OP posted it in the organic section..

Click to expand...

Nope, sorry. I decided to post it in the Nutrients section, where it belongs. What you do in organics is your thing... but once you're out of the organics section and talking trash, you'll have to live up to the scrutiny of... everyone else...