Organic No Till Recycled Soil Recipe Research Post

Hello, I am planning to start a single big bed/pot in a 4x4 tent. I mean to do recycled no till organic grow with cover crops and all. I am at the stage of researcing exactly what to mix into the soil. I have gathered clipppings from many websites and organized them. The document in the link contains both the info I have so far and questions about them. The question or questionish parts are highlighted in blue.

This document contains only the initial soil part of my research. As I get inputs from here and change it, I will also continue working on the other parts and share those with questions regarding those in the future.

Any additions to the info
Any comments on the info and corrections
Answers to questions

would be appreciated. The link is read only since I am not familiar with cloud shared files and it would be great if you posted your contributions here. I mean to organize the final document and share on the forum for everyone to use.

Also apart from those contributions, the main point of the whole thing is to decide on an ideal soil recipe which will not be tilled between crops and will stay put for many years. If you read the document and instead of taking the time to contribute, you just want to share a simple final recipe idea, that is welcome too.

Thank you very much.

You have peat moss listed in red. Is that a firm stance?

rkmcdon said:

You have peat moss listed in red. Is that a firm stance?

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I also have a question next to it in blue. Is the advantages of peat moss not replacable by methods and other amendments? If it is not replacable, is the difference that significant?

If the difference between having peat moss and not having it while amending its absence is veey significant, I might consider.

The colors are determined by the info I have gathered so far and are subject to possible change.

NightSpider said:

I also have a question next to it in blue. Is the advantages of peat moss not replacable by methods and other amendments? If it is not replacable, is the difference that significant?

If the difference between having peat moss and not having it while amending its absence is veey significant, I might consider.

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I don't honestly know. I've grown with coco choir but the mix still had peat moss. I currently have peat moss as 1/3rd of my mix. Between its higher CEC and better moisture retention, for me its an easy decision. I cant think of a specific person at the moment who does no-till in coco choir without peat moss, but i'm sure there are people on here who can chime in with their experience growing that way

From what I've read canadian peat is supposed to be a sustainable product because the peat bogs continue to grow each year but coco would be a better alternative imo because it allows more oxygen in the soil than peat

halfbreed421 said:

From what I've read canadian peat is supposed to be a sustainable product because the peat bogs continue to grow each year but coco would be a better alternative imo because it allows more oxygen in the soil than peat

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It's kinda sustainable. New peat bogs will grow and be ready to harvest soon in another few hundred years, even if the peat in the area they drained is gone forever and will never grow back. Hey, at least it's better than waiting for new petroleum to form. Lol

Peat moss being unsustainable is a bit of a half truth, depends entirely on where it is being harvested from. Some places, it is in fact unsustainable. Other places, without it being used it would overwhelm things. In fact, Ireland used peat moss for centuries as an energy source with absolutely zero issues concerning sustainability.

On top of that, people not recycling/using no-till grows also contribute to peat moss's unsustainability.

Peat moss is used over coco mostly for its higher CEC as well as its moisture retention, it is still the best to use as a base for soil.. if it is watered properly.

I recommend using coco for first timers because it is significantly easier to water. Sure, peat moss has double the CEC of coco. But if you aren't watering the peat moss properly you won't even see the benefits of the extra CEC from the peat moss in the first place.

Coco when included in soil mixes can rob you blind in a no till setup, you might have it dialed in initially but as it breaks down it will continually bind with ca and mg. If your up for staying on top of it by all means but I'd go with peat, pumice and especially rice hulls. Rice hulls allow you to dial in drainage at least initially but no drawbacks as it breaks down, far superior imo over choir for no till.

kratos015 said:

Peat moss being unsustainable is a bit of a half truth, depends entirely on where it is being harvested from. Some places, it is in fact unsustainable. Other places, without it being used it would overwhelm things. In fact, Ireland used peat moss for centuries as an energy source with absolutely zero issues concerning sustainability.

On top of that, people not recycling/using no-till grows also contribute to peat moss's unsustainability.

Peat moss is used over coco mostly for its higher CEC as well as its moisture retention, it is still the best to use as a base for soil.. if it is watered properly.

I recommend using coco for first timers because it is significantly easier to water. Sure, peat moss has double the CEC of coco. But if you aren't watering the peat moss properly you won't even see the benefits of the extra CEC from the peat moss in the first place.

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Bignutes said:

Coco when included in soil mixes can rob you blind in a no till setup, you might have it dialed in initially but as it breaks down it will continually bind with ca and mg. If your up for staying on top of it by all means but I'd go with peat, pumice and especially rice hulls. Rice hulls allow you to dial in drainage at least initially but no drawbacks as it breaks down, far superior imo over choir for no till.

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Well peat seems to be acceptable. Right now I guess it comes down to which drawback will be more managable, the long term salt of the coir or the watering. Any comments on the other's stated drawback guys?

I have been stuck trying to figure out what I agree between thousands of opinions on the web so I am right now trying to be decisive and carefully select one idea in every matter so I can prepare a base grower's handbook for myself.

Could you also give me some info and opinions with the vermiculite/perlite/pumice/rice hulls etc part of the document?

Right now what seems to make sense to me is peat instead of coco in base.

This is the last situation in the document, anyone want to contest or add to the info here?



PEAT MOSS:

+Much better than coco coir in CEC and water retention.

+Contains a unique cell structure that helps regulate moisture and air around plant roots creating an ideal growing environment.

-Not exactly sustainable.

-It is slightly acidic

-Traps water in soils, making them mucky



Coco Coir:

+Significantly easier to water

+It allows more oxygen in the soil than peat

+It is a renewable resource.

+Adding coir will loosen the texture and improve drainage. If you have heavy clay soil, coir will lighten it. If your soil is sandy, coir will help it retain water for a longer period of time. (Does peat have the same or similar texture and drainage positives?I guess not since people say it makes soil mucky.)

+Unlike peat, coir deteriorates slowly creating soil air pockets as it does. This contributes greatly to root health as it helps prevent root rot.

oAdds to the absorbency, water retention of soil, but not as good as peat

-As it breaks down it will continually bind with ca and mg.

-Coir can be high in salts. Grown in ocean climates, it often picks up additional salts after harvest. Some growers recommend washing even brands that are pre-soaked to rid them of salts. Some brands are not only washed but composted, making for more balanced mineral delivery.

-It’s been found that the high potassium content of coir can interfere with calcium uptake. Again, addition of calcium amendments can take care of this problem in garden soils. (is this the same thing with the point 2 above this?)

NightSpider said:

Could you also give me some info and opinions with the vermiculite/perlite/pumice/rice hulls etc part of the document?

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I have aeration as 1/3 of my base mix. Half of my aeration is pumice. 5% of my aeration is biochar which is supposed to have benefits in developing your mycelial network. The remainder is rice hulls which are good for aeration, moisture retention and when they breakdown(long term) they add silica to the soil.
I went with pumice after reading a number of times that perlite can "clog your soil". I don't honestly know if theres any truth to that and there are quite a few people on here who have been doing no-till with perlite for years and are reporting they've had no issues.

My 2 cents, find a source for each. You may well discover sourcing pumice is problematic and want to go with perlite. If both are similarly easy to source, go with whichevers cheaper (perlite is typically less expensive). If cost isn't an issue or prices are similar, go with pumice and you don't have to worry about whether or not perlite can cause long term issues with no-till.

rkmcdon said:

I have aeration as 1/3 of my base mix. Half of my aeration is pumice. 5% of my aeration is biochar which is supposed to have benefits in developing your mycelial network. The remainder is rice hulls which are good for aeration, moisture retention and when they breakdown(long term) they add silica to the soil.
I went with pumice after reading a number of times that perlite can "clog your soil". I don't honestly know if theres any truth to that and there are quite a few people on here who have been doing no-till with perlite for years and are reporting they've had no issues.

My 2 cents, find a source for each. You may well discover sourcing pumice is problematic and want to go with perlite. If both are similarly easy to source, go with whichevers cheaper (perlite is typically less expensive). If cost isn't an issue or prices are similar, go with pumice and you don't have to worry about whether or not perlite can cause long term issues with no-till.

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Pumice stays as it is as far as I understand, but I am guessing that biochar and rice hulls will need to be replenished between crops or at any time interval as they break down. How would I do that without breakin up the soil, mixing it and repotting?

Biochar doesn't really break down. Rice hulls take a long time to breakdown. You don't need to worry about replacing either other than including aeration when you top dress (at least i do)

What do you mean include aeration?

rkmcdon said:

Biochar doesn't really break down. Rice hulls take a long time to breakdown. You don't need to worry about replacing either other than including aeration when you top dress (at least i do)

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NightSpider said:

What do you mean include aeration?

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I top dress week 5 of flower and then reamend the soil with a top dress between grows. I include aeration (pumice, rice hulls, biochar) mixed in as components of my top dresses

So as you water the soil, those big particles travel down into the soil and get distributed properly?

rkmcdon said:

I top dress week 5 of flower and then reamend the soil with a top dress between grows. I include aeration (pumice, rice hulls, biochar) mixed in as components of my top dresses

Click to expand...

If you do no till and your stuff breaks down use worms for aeration. You can also progressively overturn a % of your soil with fresh amendments every few months without dramatically upsetting the microbes