Organic eqv. for Bud-Candy?

madodah

Well-Known Member
bud candy has molasses in it. if you have every used unsulphered molasses, and popped open a bottle of bud candy. you will know it exists somewhere in that product. :)
You are a diplomat.

I lifted this from another forum:

wholesome sweeteners organic molasses:
per 1 tablespoon/22 g, in 1 gallon of water/3.785 liters:

potassium: 730 mg/~20% of 3500 mg dv for k/730/3.785=192.86 ppm

calcium
: 115 mg/~10% of 1000 mg dv for ca/115/3.785=30.38 ppm

magnesium: 8% of 400 mg dv for mg/.08*400=32/3.785=8.4 ppm

iron: 15% of 18 mg dv for fe/.15*18=2.7/3.785=0.71 ppm

*vitamin b6: 10% of 2.0 mg dv for vit b6/2*.1=.2/3.785=.05 ppm

*sugars: 10g

*total carbohydrates
: 14g

.
I still don't understand why there's a decision process between spending $5 for something that makes gallons and a name brand $25/35 liter solution. But, to each his/her own.
 

treeburner

Member
ohhhh, I just got the bud candy, so im set there. We all love hippies right? be nice now. I see both sides point... I just got the bue candy and im happy...I will try to experiment, on my next crop ... thanks bothers !

Thanks Funk Ya for the support. I don't really care what others say about me because the forums are all about lively debates and some people agreeing with others and people arguing with others. All a part of the fun, right?

And really, some people will not be swayed about anything, even if they see studies that contradict them.

Yeah, I totally get the concept behind Bud Candy and molasses and why some people think they're the same, but I really can't believe...no matter what anyone says... LOL

Great debate everyone....:peace:
 

w00rsel

Member
Thankfully there's a strict difference between the offering of correct knowledge vs. "really can't believe" and "studies that contradict them" (even though no such link has been provided.)

Good on ya Madoddah, if the man is content spending 6x the price, let him be :)
 

blower

Active Member
What about roots organza buddah grow which has molasses in it? Combine it with molasses too?
 

madodah

Well-Known Member
Thankfully there's a strict difference between the offering of correct knowledge vs. "really can't believe" and "studies that contradict them" (even though no such link has been provided.)

Good on ya Madoddah, if the man is content spending 6x the price, let him be :)
Someone on another forum was kissing the ring of some nute company that offers a pricey vitamin B6 nute supplement for weed and a poster dropped that analysis on them. Most of that type of info has been floating around for awhile on some of the more serious organic forums.

Truth is all nutrient supplement vendor products are formulated with commonly available components purchased in bulk and repackaged. Then the marketing types produce flashy names, claims and labels to complement advertising campaigns. Developing brand loyalty through testimonials in these forums and by word of mouth is crucial to the success/failure of any product with significant overheads and margin requirements on top of negligible component costs.
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
well most people think molasses is for taste or to feed the plant. Well there may be some truth to that but the compelling reason to use it is it's ability to work with all the microbs and critters that help feed your root system. There is quite a bit of research on the subject at universities and US Ag ect. and at the end of this post. But here is a laymans intro to

This is not my work the rest of the info is at

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/organics/95401-molasses-sweet-organic-goodness.html


Why Molasses?

The reason nutrient manufacturer’s have “discovered” molasses is the simple fact that it’s a great source of carbohydrates to stimulate the growth of beneficial microorganisms. “Carbohydrate” is really just a fancy word for sugar, and molasses is the best sugar for horticultural use. Folks who have read some of our prior essays know that we are big fans of promoting and nourishing soil life, and that we attribute a good portion of our growing success to the attention we pay to building a thriving “micro-herd” to work in concert with plant roots to digest and assimilate nutrients. We really do buy into the old organic gardening adage - “Feed the soil not the plant.”

Molasses is a good, quick source of energy for the various forms of microbes and soil life in a compost pile or good living soil. As we said earlier, molasses is a carbon source that feeds the beneficial microbes that create greater natural soil fertility. But, if giving a sugar boost was the only goal, there would be lot’s of alternatives. We could even go with the old Milly Blunt story of using Coke on plants as a child, after all Coke would be a great source of sugar to feed microbes and it also contains phosphoric acid to provide phosphorus for strengthening roots and encouraging blooming. In our eyes though, the primary thing that makes molasses the best sugar for agricultural use is it’s trace minerals.

In addition to sugars, molasses contains significant amounts of potash, sulfur, and a variety of micronutrients. Because molasses is derived from plants, and because the manufacturing processes that create it remove mostly sugars, the majority of the mineral nutrients that were contained in the original sugar cane or sugar beet are still present in molasses. This is a critical factor because a balanced supply of mineral nutrients is essential for those “beneficial beasties” to survive and thrive. That’s one of the secrets we’ve discovered to really successful organic gardening, the micronutrients found in organic amendments like molasses, kelp, and alfalfa were all derived from other plant sources and are quickly and easily available to our soil and plants. This is especially important for the soil “micro-herd” of critters who depend on tiny amounts of those trace minerals as catalysts to make the enzymes that create biochemical transformations. That last sentence was our fancy way of saying - it’s actually the critters in “live soil” that break down organic fertilizers and “feed” it to our plants.

One final benefit molasses can provide to your garden is it’s ability to work as a chelating agent. That’s a scientific way of saying that molasses is one of those “magical” substances that can convert some chemical nutrients into a form that’s easily available for critters and plants. Chelated minerals can be absorbed directly and remain available and stable in the soil. Rather than spend a lot of time and effort explaining the relationships between chelates and micronutrients, we are going to quote one of our favorite sources for explaining soil for scientific laymen.

“Micronutrients occur, in cells as well as in soil, as part of large, complex organic molecules in chelated form. The word chelate (pronounced “KEE-late”) comes from the Greek word for “claw,” which indicates how a single nutrient ion is held in the center of the larger molecule. The finely balanced interactions between micronutrients are complex and not fully understood. We do know that balance is crucial; any micronutrient, when present in excessive amounts, will become a poison, and certain poisonous elements, such as chlorine are also essential micronutrients.
For this reason natural, organic sources of micronutrients are the best means of supplying them to the soil; they are present in balanced quantities and not liable to be over applied through error or ignorance. When used in naturally chelated form, excess micronutrients will be locked up and prevented from disrupting soil balance.”
Excerpted from “The Soul of Soil”
by Grace Gershuny and Joe Smillie

That’s not advertising hype either, no product being sold there. That’s just the words of a pair of authors who have spent their lives studying, building, and nurturing soils.

Molasses’ ability to act as a chelate explains it’s presence in organic stimulant products like Earth Juice Catalyst. Chelates are known for their ability to unlock the potential of fertilizers, and some smart biological farmers we know are using chelating agents (like Humic Acid) to allow them to make dramatic cuts in normal levels of fertilizer application.

One way to observe this reaction at work would be to mix up a solution of one part molasses to nine parts water and then soak an object which is coated with iron rust (like a simple nail for instance) in that solution for two weeks. The chelating action of the molasses will remove the mineral elements of the rust and hold them in that “claw shaped” molecule that Grace and Joe just described.

As we’ve commented on elsewhere, it’s not always possible to find good information about the fertilizer benefits of some products that aren’t necessarily produced as plant food. But we’ve also found that by taking a careful look at nutritional information provided for products like molasses that can be consumed by humans, we can get a pretty decent look at the nutrition we can expect a plant to get as well.

There are many brand’s of molasses available, so please do not look at our use of a particular brand as an endorsement, our choice of Brer Rabbit molasses as an example is simply due to our familiarity with the product, one of our Grandmother’s preferred this brand.

Brer Rabbit Blackstrap Molasses
Nutritional Information and Nutrition Facts: Serving Size: 1Tbsp. (21g). Servings per Container: About 24. Amount Per Serving: Calories - 60;
Percentage Daily Values; Fat - 0g, 0%; Sodium - 65mg. 3%; Potassium - 800 mg. 23%; Total Carbohydrates - 13g, 4%; Sugars - 12g, Protein - 1g, Calcium - 2%; Iron 10%; Magnesium 15%; Not a significant source of calories from fat, sat. fat, cholesterol, fiber, Vitamin A, and Vitamin C.


The How’s of Molasses

Undoubtedly some folks are to the point where they are ready for our flock to “cut to the chase.” All the background about molasses making and the various kinds of molasses is good, and knowing how molasses works as a fertilizer is great too, but by now many of you may be thinking - isn’t it about time to learn how to actually use this wonder product?! So this section of the “Molasses Manual” is for our birdie buds who are ready, waiting, and wanting to get going with bringing the sticky goodness of molasses into their garden.

Molasses is a fairly versatile product, it can serve as a plant food as well as a an additive to improve a fertilizer mix or tea. Dry molasses can be used as an ingredient in a fertilizer mix, and liquid molasses can be used alone or as a component in both sprays and soil drenches. Your personal preferences and growing style will help to decide how to best use this natural sweetener for it’s greatest effect in your garden.

We will try and address the use of dry molasses first, although we will openly admit this is an area where we have little actual experience with gardening use. We’ve certainly mixed dry molasses into animal feed before, so we’re not totally unfamiliar with it’s use. Folks may remember from our earlier description of the various kinds of molasses that dry molasses is actually a ground grain waste “carrier” which has been coated with molasses. This gives dry molasses a semi-granular texture that can be mixed into a feed mix (for animals) or a soil mix (for our favorite herbs). Dry molasses has a consistency that was described by one bird as similar to mouse droppings or rat turds, (folks had to know we’d fit a manure reference in here somehow).

The best use we can envision for dry molasses in the herb garden is to include it in some sort of modified “super-soil” recipe, like Vic High originally popularized for the cannabis community. As we admitted, the use of dry molasses in soil mixes isn’t something we have personal experience with, at least not yet. We are planning some experiments to see how a bit of dry molasses will work in a soil mix. We believe that moderate use should help stimulate micro-organisms and also help in chelating micronutrients and holding them available for our herbs. The plan is to begin testing with one cup of dried molasses added per 10 gallons of soil mix and then let our observations guide the efforts from there.

Another option for molasses use in the garden is it’s use alone as a fertilizer. The Schultz Garden Safe Liquid Plant Food is a perfect example of the direct application of molasses as a plant food. Garden Safe products are available from a variety of sources, including Wal-Mart. Although we consider them overpriced for a sugar beet by-product, Garden Safe products are fairly cost effective, especially compared to fertilizers obtained from a hydroponics or garden store, and they can serve as a good introduction to molasses for the urban herb gardener.

Here are the basic instructions a gardener would find on the side of a bottle of this sugar beet by-product - Mix Garden Safe Liquid All Purpose Plant Food in water. Water plants thoroughly with solution once every 7-14 days in spring and summer, every 14-30 days in fall and winter. Indoors, use 1/2 teaspoon per quart (1 teaspoon per gallon); outdoors, 1 teaspoon per quart (4 teaspoons per gallon). 32 fluid ounces (946ml). Contains 3.0% Water Soluble Nitrogen, 1.0% Available Phosphate, 5.0% Soluble Potash derived from molasses.

In our own experience with Garden Safe Liquid fertilizers, we’ve used a pretty close equivalent to the outdoor rate on indoor herbs with some good success. Our best application rate for Garden Safe 3-1-5 ended up being around 1 Tablespoon per gallon ( 1 Tablespoon = 3 teaspoons). Used alone it’s really not a favorite for continuos use, since we don’t see Garden Safe 3-1-5 as a balanced fertilizer. It doesn’t have enough phosphorous to sustain good root growth and flower formation in the long term. It’s best use would probably be in an outdoor soil grow where there are potential pest issues. Animal by-products like blood meal and bone meal are notorious for attracting varmints, so Garden Safe sugar beet molasses fertilizers could provide an excellent “plant based” source of Nitrogen and Potassium for a soil that’s already been heavily amended with a good slow release source of phosphorous, our choice would be soft rock phosphate.

Blackstrap molasses could also be used in a similar fashion, as a stand alone liquid fertilizer for the biological farmer who needs to avoid potential varmint problems caused by animal based products. But, we really believe there is a better overall use for molasses in the organic farmer’s arsenal of fertilizers. Our suggestion for the best available use, would be to make use of the various molasses products as a part making organic teas for watering and foliar feeding.

Since many of the folks reading this are familiar with our Guano Guide, it will come as no surprise to our audience that molasses is a product we find very useful as an ingredient in Guano and Manure teas. Most bat and seabird guanos are fairly close to being complete fertilizers, with the main exception being that they are usually short in Potassium. Molasses is turns out is a great source of that necessary Potassium. As we learned earlier, molasses also acts as a chelating agent and will help to make micronutrients in the Guano more easily available for our favorite herbs.

A good example of a guano tea recipe at the Bird’s Nest is really as simple as the following:
1 Gallon of water
1 TBSP of guano (for a flowering mix we’d use Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano - for a more general use fertilizer we would choose Peruvian Seabird Guano.)
1 tsp blackstrap or sugar beet molasses
We mix the ingredients directly into the water and allow the tea mix to brew for 24 hours. It’s best to use an aquarium pump to aerate the tea, but an occasional shaking can suffice if necessary and still produce a quality tea. We will give you one hint from hard personal experience, make sure if you use the shake method that you hold the lid on securely, nobody appreciate having a crap milkshake spread over the room.

Some folks prefer to use a lady’s nylon or stocking to hold the guano and keep it from making things messy, but we figure the organic matter the manure can contribute to the soil is a good thing. Using this method we feel like we are getting the benefits of a manure tea and a guano top-dressing all together in the same application. If you prefer to use the stocking method, feel free to feed the”tea bag”leftovers to your worm or compost bin, even after a good brewing there’s lots of organic goodness left in that crap!

We also use molasses to sweeten and enrich Alfalfa meal teas. Our standard recipe for this use is:
4 gallons of water
1 cup of fine ground alfalfa meal
1 TBSP blackstrap or sugar beet molasses
After a 24 hour brew, this 100% plant-based fertilizer is ready for application. Alfalfa is a great organic plant food, with many benefits above and beyond just the N–P-K it can contribute to a soil mix or tea. We do plan to cover Alfalfa and it’s many uses in greater detail soon in yet another thread. We prefer to mix our alfalfa meal directly into the tea, but many gardeners use the stocking”tea bag”method with great effectiveness, both work well, it’s really just a matter of personal preference.

The alfalfa tea recipe we described can be used as a soil drench, and also as a foliar feed. And foliar feeding is the final use of molasses we’d like to detail. Foliar feeding, for the unfamiliar, is simply the art of using fine mist sprays as a way to get nutrients directly to the plant through the minute pores a plant”breathes”through. It is by far the quickest and most effective way to correct nutrient deficiencies, and can be an important part of any gardener’s toolbox.

Molasses is a great ingredient in foliar feeding recipes because of it’s ability to chelate nutrients and bring them to the “table” in a form that can be directly absorbed and used by the plant. This really improves the effectiveness of foliar feeds when using them as a plant tonic. In fact it improves them enough that we usually can dilute our teas or mix them more “lean” - with less fertilizer - than we might use without the added molasses.

Of course it is possible to use molasses as a foliar feed alone, without any added guano or alfalfa. It’s primary use would be to treat plants who are deficient in Potassium, although molasses also provides significant boosts in other essential minerals such as Sulfur, Iron and Magnesium. Organic farming guides suggest application rates of between one pint and one quart per acre depending on the target plant. For growing a fast growing annual plant like cannabis, we’d suggest a recipe of 1 teaspoon molasses per gallon of water.

In all honesty, we’d probably suggest a foliar feeding with kelp concentrate as a better solution for an apparent Potassium shortage. Kelp is one of our favorite foliar feeds because it is a complete source of micronutrients in addition to being a great source of Potassium. Kelp has a variety of other characteristics that we love, and we plan that it will be the topic of it’s own detailed thread at a future date. But, for growers that cannot find kelp, or who might have problems with the potential odors a kelp foliar feeding can create, molasses can provide an excellent alternative treatment for Potassium deficient plants at an affordable price.

That looks at most of the beneficial uses of Molasses for the modern organic or biological farmer. Just when you think that’s all there could be from our beaks on the topic of molasses, that molasses and it’s sweet sticky goodness surely have been covered in their entirety, the birds chirp in to say, there is one more specialized use for molasses in the garden. Magical molasses can also help in the control of Fire Ants, and perhaps some other garden pests.



Molasses For Organic Pest Control


One final benefit of molasses is it’s ability to be used in the control of a couple of common pests encountered in gardening. The most commonly known use of molasses is it’s ability to help control Fire Ants, but we’ve also found an internet reference to the ability of molasses to control white cabbage moths in the UK, so molasses could be an effective pest deterrent in more ways that we are aware.
As we said before, there are several references we’ve run across refering to the ability of molasses to control Fire Ants. Since we’re not intimately familiar with this particular use of molasses, and rather than simply re-write and re-word another’s work, we thought we’d defer to the experts. So for this section of the current version of the Molasses Manual, we will simply post a reference article we found that covers topic in better detail than we currently can ourselves.
Molasses Makes Fire Ants Move Out
By Pat Ploegsma, reprinted from Native Plant Society of Texas News
Summer 1999
Have you ever started planting in your raised beds and found fire ant highrises? Are you tired of being covered with welts after gardening? Put down that blowtorch and check out these excellent organic and non-toxic solutions.
Malcolm Beck1, organic farmer extraordinaire and owner of Garden-Ville Inc., did some experiments that showed that molasses is a good addition to organic fertilizer (more on fertilizer in the next issue). When using molasses in the fertilizer spray for his fruit trees he noticed that the fire ants moved out from under the trees. “I got an opportunity to see if molasses really moved fire ants. In my vineyard, I had a 500 foot row of root stock vines cut back to a stump that needed grafting. The fire ants had made themselves at home along that row. The mounds averaged three feet apart. There was no way a person could work there without being eaten alive! I dissolved 4 tablespoons of molasses in each gallon of water and sprayed along the drip pipe. By the next day the fire ants had moved four feet in each direction. We were able to graft the vines without a single ant bothering us.”
This gave him the idea for developing an organic fire ant killer that is 30% orange oil and 70% liquid compost made from manure and molasses. The orange oil softens and dissolves the ant’s exoskeleton, making them susceptible to attack by the microbes in the compost, while the molasses feeds the microbes and also smothers the ants. After the insects are dead, everything becomes energy-rich soil conditioner and will not harm any plant it touches. It can be used on any insect including mosquitoes and their larvae.
Break a small hole in the crust in the center of the mound then quickly!!! pour the solution into the hole to flood the mound and then drench the ants on top. Large mounds may need a second application. Available at Garden-Ville Square in Stafford, it has a pleasant lemonade smell.
According to Mark Bowen2, local landscaper and Houston habitat gardening expert, fire ants thrive on disturbed land and sunny grassy areas. “Organic matter provides a good habitat for fire ant predators such as beneficial nematodes, fungi, etc. Other conditions favoring fire ant predators include shading the ground with plantings, good soil construction practices and use of plants taller than turfgrasses.” He recommends pouring boiling soapy water over shallow mounds or using AscendTM. “Ascend is a fire ant bait which contains a fungal by-product called avermectin and a corn and soybean-based grit bait to attract fire ants. Ascend works slowly enough to get the queen or queens and it controls ants by sterilizing and/or killing them outright.”
Malcolm Beck also did some experiments with Diatomaceous Earth - DE - (skeletal remains of algae which is ground into an abrasive dust) which confirmed that DE also kills fire ants. He mixes 4 oz. of DE into the top of the mound with lethal results. According to Beck, DE only works during dry weather on dry ant mounds. Pet food kept outdoors will stay ant free if placed on top of a tray with several inches of DE

1Beck, Malcolm. The Garden-Ville Method: Lessons in Nature. Third Edition. San Antonio, TX: Garden-Ville, Inc., 1998.
2Bowen, Mark, with Mary Bowen. Habitat Gardening for Houston and Southeast Texas. Houston, TX: River Bend Publishing Company, 1998.
 

Guest999

Active Member
Dunno if it's been said, but bud candy is organic....

Plus i saw someone mentioned subcool and suconate; subcool uses budcandy and suconate...
 

Comando

Member
Uh, Bud Candy is organic. Not sure why you'd need to make it on your own.

http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/products/bud_candy/bud_candy_product_information.php

And for those yahoos that think molasses is the same - IT'S NOT. It's a natural plant substance, but it's also too big of carbohydrate molecules to be absorbed by plants, from what I understand.

Granted, I'm no scientist, but it still seems to be a crappy substitute for technology and for products that have been specifically made for growing. That's all I'm saying.

So, the hippies with their molasses should stop touting it, especially to newbies. It seems a little more advanced than most newbs can handle - and even too advanced for me. I'll stick to Big Bud or Bud Candy.

:lol:
Yep this guy is an idiot....coming into an organic conversation and spouting about AN....Obviously some sort of fucktard....Like a retarded kid waling into the middle of a movie....Yea keep quoting those Colorfuly Fun AN ads ...Im sure that everything they say is true...and 100% money back garuntee....oooo dont forget about that...Its not even worth trying to explain to him Mado..
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
I use 1 tablespoon to a gallon. I also use it in my tea as a food for the colony at the same rate.

Now for a proper roasting....

Just because they been doing it for years does not mean it's crap and hippie shit. It's clear you read nothing. So no sense posting some research. Grow the fuck up, if your not hear to learn than bugger off you wanker.

And for those yahoos that think molasses is the same - IT'S NOT. It's a natural plant substance, but it's also too big of carbohydrate molecules to be absorbed by plants, from what I understand. You have no idea what your talking about, the sugar is not for the plant, it acts as a catalyst in the soil. Read the posting!! or is it to big for your head?

Granted, I'm no scientist, but it still seems to be a crappy substitute for technology and for products that have been specifically made for growing. That's all I'm saying. Again you have no idea what your talking about, molasses has been used in agriculture since the 1800's and is still in wide use in the USA and world wide..

So, the hippies with their molasses should stop touting it, especially to newbies.
Are you sure your 18??
It seems a little more advanced than most newbs can handle - and even too advanced for me. Yes it is way to advanced for you, add 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon, rocket science, yup your not a scientist that's for sure. I'll stick to Big Bud or Bud Candy. Someone has to buy that stuff, may as well be you.

flame off.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, I encourage it but the bull in the china shop is not the best way to get your point across, especaly when you are just so wrong. Misinformation can destroy peoples work so next time you post do a little home work and make sure your brain is loaded before you shoot your mouth off.

Peace Benefits...
Molasses increases the amount of carbon into soil (C:N ratio) and promotes the growth of beneficial soil microorganisms.

It is an effective soluble foliar carbohydrate.

Improves the structural stability of soils by decreasing dispersion and/or slaking.

Improves soil moisture retention.

The addition of molasses to high N applications ameliorates the phytotoxic effect of discrete N application.

Source of potassium, sulphur and trace elements.

Buffers phytotoxic effects of pesticides, herbicides and mineral oil applications in cropping and pasture systems

Stimulates beneficial microbial activity by providing an excellent food source.

Enhanced microbial activity improves availability of nutrients in the soil and reduces the amount of fertilizer required.
 

dbkick

Well-Known Member
Hey Guys. I am new here but am on my second grow. I have done a lot of research to see whats in AN nutes and its quite impressive. Being the person I am I tried to copy a bit of what was in the nutes and came up with my own "super grow bud candy".
I have the budget to buy AN, but since I'm only growing bagseed for personal use I felt I could experiment a little.

First things first. This is a soil grow.
I am using 1 400 w HPS for veg and Flowering
1 fan to circulate air
the room is 4x8
3 plants 1 flowering now

My Bud Candy Ingredients

3 tbs molasses
2 tbs MG Rose Bloom for flowering (I know its a supposed sin but it works when used right)
2 tbs MG all Purpose Plant food takes the place of the above for vegging
1/2 tbs og generic water soluble 5-20-20 fertilizer to add extra p and k (for flowering blend only
2/3 cup Acai Berry V8 juice blend
1 tbs Epsom Salt
4 cups water
2 pieces wheat bread
1 plastic ziplock bag with tiny holes poked through

Place the bread in the ziplock bag. Add that and the rest of the ingredients to a pot and allow to cook on low heat to reduce.

When the mix reduces halfway (about 2 1/2 cups) remove the ziplock bag and let it cool down.

Now this is a potent mix so the next step is vital. I use 2 64 oz bottles or you can use a gallon bottle, add the cooled mix to the bottle and fill the rest with purified or bottled water.

I give to my babies 1/4 cup a piece per week.

I will post pics soon.

Tell me what you think or email me [email protected]
Bud candy is cheap, whats the recipe for voodoo juice?
 
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