opinions please!!!

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

Hey whats up everyone. I am not a total noob but im still green behind my ears. I have grown before with no problems soil and hydro even HPA. But this 100% organic is really slow to me. Mabey its a slow growing indica, but I can find anymore than 1 report on this strain. Strain is THseeds Acorn (aka. snowbud). This is a heavily indica dominant strain. Bean germinated in less than 24 hrs and broke ground 3 days later. Im counting that as day 1 and that was Nov.1-13 So its 20 days today. It started out as a very slow grower and after 7 days it had just started to begin growing the second set of leaves. I know that plants will sometimes start off slow and its because they're building a root system. However around day 12 is when it started to grow a tab bit more, still quite slow compared to ALL my other grows. At day 18 the plants had 4 nodes and 5th was emerging. Side branching is present but slow to grow. I want to mainline/scrog, so I FIM'd the plant yesterday, and today she has already bounced back and is opening up at the pruned terminal. She looks very good and healthy and the only brown on her is the cotyledons. Her leaves are pitched up at a 45 as to catch all the light she possably can. I believe its a sign of vigor and the plants happy. Im not overwatering or underwatering and I have forced supplemental 02 delivery rig within the root zone. So now the pants is 20 day old today And Im thinking either its a slow grower or of poor gentitics.

light-G8-450 fullspectrum led
exhaust----190cfm passive 1min on/5 min off
ambient----82F Daytime/ 72F Nightime
RH----------45% Day/ 60% Night
* all environmental conditions are fully automated*
soil is my own concoction and is rich in nutrition but mostly un available, I like to use it for minuet value and for new seedlings. The darker soil at the base is mostly cooked and fully fortified for Bloom. PH is 6-7. usually 6.5-7
the soil temp is 68-70F during the day and at night I allow it to drop to 63F to coinside with the night ambient temps. Oscillating circulation is on 24/7

I have been feeding/watering with compost tea of different concoctions and a variety of ingredients. Always smells fresh and earthy. I have cal/mag and been giving her 150 ppm into the pre-measured diluted ph stabilized compost tea. And she has gotton super thrive as well as advanced nutrients B-52, and 1/2 tsp/gallon of fish emulsion. As I had said earlier, she looks good, a nice medium lime green color. No burns or spots or curls or tips. No bugs or pathogens.

I have posted before about this plant back when she was around a week old, saying I thought she was slow. Does she need to be fed? Does she need more of one mineral element over another? Mabey she has too much nutrients, and that's why she is slow? Here is a link to the only bit of strain info I can find. http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Akorn_aka_Snowbud/TH_Seeds/

Please give me your honest opinions. Here are some pictures. She seems like a fucking runt!!!

Last 3 pictures are today, 2 days after FIM.

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

Oh well. Thanks for all the help. I'm just gonna figure this shit out on my own, nothing new around here. Transplant to hydro or just plain ole pull her.

Alpha & Omega · Nov 20, 2013

tikitoker said:
Oh well. Thanks for all the help. I'm just gonna figure this shit out on my own, nothing new around here. Transplant to hydro or just plain ole pull her.

Yo dude, sorry for being late but im here! IMO Temps are too low, they love temps between 75 & 86 F. Its ok to drop the temps down for a bit per 24 hours tho, purple strains get more purple doing that. But the majority should be between those two, or she will stop growing or grow slowly. The other thing is if your had your LED too close during seedling stage, you could of stunted her. Again she will grow slow but still produce the desired effects, just takes longer. Don't pull her tho, get the LED at least 24 inches above her, 36 if you can and she will start to stretch a little bit.

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

right on man thanks for responding. The light is exactly 36 inches from top of canopy.I was actually thinking that was the light stunting her. but her leaves are pitched up as though she is trying to take in as much light as she can. the light does have UV in it so maybe that's what stunting her. a close up view of the leaves, they have a lot of glandular development which signifies stress. also I was under the impression that 82 degrees for ambient temp with LED's is appropriate because there's no radiant heat like what there is with high pressure sodium or metal hallide. When using those lights room temperature 78 degrees Fahrenheit ambient, however the actual plan canopy is probably closer to 83 Fahrenheit. I'm not using co2 so I don't want to go to high. what if I were to keep night temps at the same as day temps? what that accelerate growth rate?also do you think it's possible that because she has a good 15 inches of root depth the reason why she hasn't taken off yet is because roots haven't hit the bottom.

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

does she look like she stunted to you?

JohnDee · Nov 20, 2013

Tikitoker,
I'm just going to express my opinions like you requested. Certainly I don't feel it needs more feedings. A good organic soil mix doesn't need immediate supplementation. I worry that your soil might be too compact with not enough aeration. Any perlite or anything to open up the soil? When you said "cooked" about the soil...what did that mean? Are you keeping the soil too wet...or allowing it to dry a bit between watering? The praying leaf things doesn't necessarily indicate a problem. Sorry, no definitive answers.
JD

lilroach · Nov 20, 2013

Not knowing what's in your soil I can only guess here and assume that your soil does indeed have plenty of nutrients to offer.

I use Fox Farm soils and don't even think about adding any nutrients until about the 4th week, and then only about 1/3 of the recommended dose. I then wait about 2-3 more weeks and give a full dose before heading into 12/12.

I'm also guessing that you're mental time-table is set for growth in hydro....which from my understanding is faster than soil-grows.

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

JohnDee said:
Tikitoker,
I'm just going to express my opinions like you requested. Certainly I don't feel it needs more feedings. A good organic soil mix doesn't need immediate supplementation. I worry that your soil might be too compact with not enough aeration. Any perlite or anything to open up the soil? When you said "cooked" about the soil...what did that mean? Are you keeping the soil too wet...or allowing it to dry a bit between watering? The praying leaf things doesn't necessarily indicate a problem. Sorry, no definitive answers.
JD

that's what I'm talking about man the soil doesn't have that much nutrition that's available. So I'm I doubt it's a high quality mix however it does have excellent drainage lots of perlite rice hulls and hydroton.
seriously man I'm just thinking about scrapping this bitch. Dude 20 days old and only 4 inches tall granite she's got five nodes but still very small plant. I'm not gonna spend the time or the money on growing her out if she's puney now she will be puney at harvest.

JohnDee · Nov 20, 2013

Tikitoker,
It certainly could be a runt...but many people report amazing smoke from runts. It's your choice whether to start over. It could be the plant is busy growing roots and eventually will spring to life.

My question about cooked was because some people have actually baked soil in the oven to sterilize it. Works but kills good bacteria and stuff too.

Plant growing requires patience...so chant your mantra and relax.

OOOOOOOOOOOOM OOOOOOOOOOOOOM lol
JD

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

lilroach said:
Not knowing what's in your soil I can only guess here and assume that your soil does indeed have plenty of nutrients to offer.

I use Fox Farm soils and don't even think about adding any nutrients until about the 4th week, and then only about 1/3 of the recommended dose. I then wait about 2-3 more weeks and give a full dose before heading into 12/12.

I'm also guessing that you're mental time-table is set for growth in hydro....which from my understanding is faster than soil-grows.

That's what I figured about the soil. Its got enough of everything, and the plants apperance looks good. She's just small and slow. Your right my mind is on hydro time. However this is my first home made soil mix and first totally organic grow. I have soil grows under my belt but I used sunshine advanced #4 soil with advanced nutrients sensi grow & conessour. Plants grew real fast.

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

JohnDee said:
Tikitoker,
It certainly could be a runt...but many people report amazing smoke from runts. It's your choice whether to start over. It could be the plant is busy growing roots and eventually will spring to life.

My question about cooked was because some people have actually baked soil in the oven to sterilize it. Works but kills good bacteria and stuff too.

Plant growing requires patience...so chant your mantra and relax.

OOOOOOOOOOOOM OOOOOOOOOOOOOM lol

Cooked means I matained temps for microbes to do there thing and breakdown organic nutrients. Supersoil.
I'm really hoping she is focusing on roots because then and only then will she take off.

Alpha & Omega · Nov 20, 2013

tikitoker said:
right on man thanks for responding. The light is exactly 36 inches from top of canopy.I was actually thinking that was the light stunting her. but her leaves are pitched up as though she is trying to take in as much light as she can. the light does have UV in it so maybe that's what stunting her. a close up view of the leaves, they have a lot of glandular development which signifies stress. also I was under the impression that 82 degrees for ambient temp with LED's is appropriate because there's no radiant heat like what there is with high pressure sodium or metal hallide. When using those lights room temperature 78 degrees Fahrenheit ambient, however the actual plan canopy is probably closer to 83 Fahrenheit. I'm not using co2 so I don't want to go to high. what if I were to keep night temps at the same as day temps? what that accelerate growth rate?also do you think it's possible that because she has a good 15 inches of root depth the reason why she hasn't taken off yet is because roots haven't hit the bottom.

how high was your LEd when in the first week tho bro? Heres some pics of what I mean by LED Stunting, Two plants, 21 days old, same strain, same everything, one (the smaller one) had the LED 12 inches above it for first two weeks, the second, (larger) the LED was put straight to the top of the cab, 36 inches away on day 5, 1 day after germinating.

JohnDee · Nov 20, 2013

Tikitoker,
OK cool...thinks for clearing that up. I hope she takes off soon...
Peace,
JD

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

Alpha & Omega said:
how high was your LEd when in the first week tho bro? Heres some pics of what I mean by LED Stunting, Two plants, 21 days old, same strain, same everything, one (the smaller one) had the LED 12 inches above it for first two weeks, the second, (larger) the LED was put straight to the top of the cab, 36 inches away on day 5, 1 day after germinating.
View attachment 2901369 View attachment 2901368 View attachment 2901366 View attachment 2901367

I've been at 36 inches from day one

lilroach · Nov 20, 2013

If you look at my signature link "attempting uncle bens topping technique" you'll see what I did with a runt...and it ended up yielding 5 ounces dry. Sometimes you have to squeeze a few lemons to make lemonaide.

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

lilroach said:
If you look at my signature link "attempting uncle bens topping technique" you'll see what I did with a runt...and it ended up yielding 5 ounces dry. Sometimes you have to squeeze a few lemons to make lemonaide.

Thanks this gives me hope.

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

okay so I got a question for you Roach. Is there a difference between stunts and runts. Will stunts recover as where runts normally stay small? (In my case)

lilroach · Nov 20, 2013

I think the only difference between stunts and runts is the spelling....it is at least for me.

lilroach · Nov 20, 2013

If you didn't seriously look at "My attempt at Uncle Ben's topping technique" you should. I had a plant just like yours....just not going anywhere, and compared the her sisters was about 1/4 the size of them. She turned out to out produce the two others by a whole bunch. It was a 90% sativa that took quite awhile, but so did her sisters so it really didn't slow down the growing process by much.

tikitoker · Nov 20, 2013

I absolutely did read through it. Crazy our situations are almost identical except mines heavy Indica. I did have plans on main lining/ scrog and cloning the cuttings. I fimmed 2 days ago to get more cuttings before I top her down to the second node. Should give me 12-14 clones if everything goes right.

opinions please!!!

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