NEED HELP - Best lamp project

Hello to all

I'm pretty new to this forum but I'm in love with it and I'm here to stay (or try to do it)

I'm projecting a new lamp and also its PCB strarting from zero I want to realize the BEST lamp my mind and knowledge can do, BUT my mind isn't so good and I'm knowledge isn't to big so I'm here to ask your HELP.

This is what my mind thougt :

- Design and power: EV700 10 bars with 70w each - what power supply? Meanwell? OSRAM? (first doub)
- Dimention: 1X1 meter = 39,37" (Is the ideal size for test in the European world)
- Diode: Samsung LM301B 3000k 80 or 90 NICHIA 2700k+4000k Samsung and dimmer ?(second doubt) extra red needed? (third doubt)
- PCB: 3 row with 116 diode/row at the distance of 0.4mm each - 2 or 3 row ? With some red far red, uvb uva ?
- Dimention: 1X1 meter = 39,37" (Is the ideal size for test in the European world)
- Extra: Dimmer ? Voltage amperage energy manager? Bluetooth?

Probably I'll edit because I'm forgetting something ^^

Any help will be appreciate, thank you for everyone want help me in this project I'll share all the sharable and I'll keep u updated.

@Randomblame

ildiocane said:

Hello to all

I'm pretty new to this forum but I'm in love with it and I'm here to stay (or try to do it)

I'm projecting a new lamp and also its PCB strarting from zero I want to realize the BEST lamp my mind and knowledge can do, BUT my mind isn't so good and I'm knowledge isn't to big so I'm here to ask your HELP.

This is what my mind thougt :

- Design and power: EV700 10 bars with 70w each - what power supply? Meanwell? OSRAM? (first doub)
- Dimention: 1X1 meter = 39,37" (Is the ideal size for test in the European world)
- Diode: Samsung LM301B 3000k 80 or 90 NICHIA 2700k+4000k Samsung and dimmer ?(second doubt) extra red needed? (third doubt)
- PCB: 3 row with 116 diode/row at the distance of 0.4mm each - 2 or 3 row ? With some red far red, uvb uva ?
- Dimention: 1X1 meter = 39,37" (Is the ideal size for test in the European world)
- Extra: Dimmer ? Voltage amperage energy manager? Bluetooth?

Probably I'll edit because I'm forgetting something ^^

Any help will be appreciate, thank you for everyone want help me in this project I'll share all the sharable and I'll keep u updated.

@Randomblame

Click to expand...

Even double row strips get considerably hotter than single row. Triple rows.... Heatsinks will be necessary. I'd steer clear of having your own PCB design made for you when there's so many great options already for super affordable prices. Get yourself some Samsung HinFlux or bridgelux EB Gen2 strips, get some angle aluminum, a meanwell HLG600, build it, n call it a day. Don't put too much thought into it. Just get some white 2700-3500K cct strips and build it.

Meanwell driver and samsung leds are the generally choice. I believe.
Because many LED light supplier use them.

ildiocane said:

Hello to all

I'm pretty new to this forum but I'm in love with it and I'm here to stay (or try to do it)

I'm projecting a new lamp and also its PCB strarting from zero I want to realize the BEST lamp my mind and knowledge can do, BUT my mind isn't so good and I'm knowledge isn't to big so I'm here to ask your HELP.

This is what my mind thougt :

- Design and power: EV700 10 bars with 70w each - what power supply? Meanwell? OSRAM? (first doub)
- Dimention: 1X1 meter = 39,37" (Is the ideal size for test in the European world)
- Diode: Samsung LM301B 3000k 80 or 90 NICHIA 2700k+4000k Samsung and dimmer ?(second doubt) extra red needed? (third doubt)
- PCB: 3 row with 116 diode/row at the distance of 0.4mm each - 2 or 3 row ? With some red far red, uvb uva ?
- Dimention: 1X1 meter = 39,37" (Is the ideal size for test in the European world)
- Extra: Dimmer ? Voltage amperage energy manager? Bluetooth?

Probably I'll edit because I'm forgetting something ^^
J
Any help will be appreciate, thank you for everyone want help me in this project I'll share all the sharable and I'll keep u updated.

@Randomblame

Click to expand...

Wow! That's an ambitious project for an LED noob. You need CAT software for PCB design/Gerber files for circuit layout, solder pattern, etc.. All that's no as easy as you might think.
I would rather use exsisting parts.
LED-tech.de for instance has own 50cm Samsung strips with +90pcs top bin LM301b's. 14,90€/pcs but they become cheaper the more you take.
They also have Nichia, Osram (incl. the new Square series), Cree and Luxeon Diodes and a lot of other stuff like the Zeus Boards(also LM301b top bins).

PS. Sorry for the delay, buddy! I'm a bit busy at the mo..

@Airwalker16
Thank you for your answer, I'd like to keep it simple like that but my mind want somenthing more , want the best that is possible and scienfically or tested proven.
So I hope to find a way to choose the best possible solution with all the features a led grower could need

@Randomblame
I'm not a noob at all, I'm in the middle, I'm not an expert but I'm not complitely a noob.
The most important thing is a confront to someone know more than me or like me because I can't solve all my doubt by myself.
I have the possibility to create the pcb with a factory in my place, and I first want to know what price they make me for this pcb and I have to have a project before they tell me the price and afther that I'll decide if is better buy existing parts or use this custom pcb , specially if I can add different kind of spectrum and red/far red diode and also share it with the forum.
I just want to realize the BEST lamp/pcb for me and for everyone want buy it , I want to make all is possible to realize the best product and to realize that, I need confront about knowledge and also the led users need , because my needs could be differnt from your needs.
(don't worry for the delay , I appreciate your help )

up

Cool project. I used samsung strips at ~50 watts per sq. Ft. Then added some chips from RapidLED that replicate their Mass Medical Kit for my sq footages. I’m using UVA up to 485 on a separate driver and red 630, photo red 660 and IR on a separate driver and then far red 720-740 on separate driver and separate timer for lights out use. So 4 drivers in total all on dimmers. This will be my first go around with this set up so we’ll see. Not using the far red this go though. Too many new variables.

Merlin1147 said:

Cool project. I used samsung strips at ~50 watts per sq. Ft. Then added some chips from RapidLED that replicate their Mass Medical Kit for my sq footages. I’m using UVA up to 485 on a separate driver and red 630, photo red 660 and IR on a separate driver and then far red 720-740 on separate driver and separate timer for lights out use. So 4 drivers in total all on dimmers. This will be my first go around with this set up so we’ll see. Not using the far red this go though. Too many new variables.

Click to expand...

That sounds like a winning set up.

Merlin1147 said:

Cool project. I used samsung strips at ~50 watts per sq. Ft. Then added some chips from RapidLED that replicate their Mass Medical Kit for my sq footages. I’m using UVA up to 485 on a separate driver and red 630, photo red 660 and IR on a separate driver and then far red 720-740 on separate driver and separate timer for lights out use. So 4 drivers in total all on dimmers. This will be my first go around with this set up so we’ll see. Not using the far red this go though. Too many new variables.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your good answer I appreciate.

I'm at the same poit I'll use also the emerson effect, but I have some doubt abut UVA and UVB + deep/royal blue , I have to read more, what do u think about? What are your results? Have you made some test?

Thank you ^^

Merlin1147 said:

Cool project. I used samsung strips at ~50 watts per sq. Ft. Then added some chips from RapidLED that replicate their Mass Medical Kit for my sq footages. I’m using UVA up to 485 on a separate driver and red 630, photo red 660 and IR on a separate driver and then far red 720-740 on separate driver and separate timer for lights out use. So 4 drivers in total all on dimmers. This will be my first go around with this set up so we’ll see. Not using the far red this go though. Too many new variables.

Click to expand...

Whats your take on IR? Will be adding soon so any info is interesting.

ildiocane said:

'm at the same poit I'll use also the emerson effect, but I have some doubt abut UVA and UVB + deep/royal blue , I have to read more, what do u think about? What are your results? Have you made some test?

Click to expand...

This my first go around with the new set ups so we’ll see. My approach was to look at the spectral output of day light, CMH and HPS as compared to straight LED and then fill in the gaps while being able to fine tune things. My primary use for the Far red will be 5 minute before lights out till 10 minutes after during bloom to initiate sleep but for now I’m not using that because I’m currently running a test looking at running a 28 hour light/dark cycle. 16 hours light, 12 hours dark. 6 cycles in 7 days.
Hoping to answer some of the following questions:

Q1. How will exposing short day plants to a 28 hour light/dark cycle using 16 hour light 12 hour dark effect plant growth and health as compared to 24 hour light/dark cycle using 12/12?
Q2. Will short day plants flower when exposed to lengthened light periods while maintaining a 12 hour dark period? Is flower initiation regulated solely by the length of the dark period Ir regardless of the day length?

Q3. How will a 28 hour cycle effect flower initiation flower maturation, yield, timing and quality of flowering?

Hope this helps. I’ll PM you.

Rocket Soul said:

Whats your take on IR? Will be adding soon so any info is interesting.

Click to expand...

I like the IR to increase leaf surface temps with LEDs. Some people using LEDs will compensate for the lack of IR by raising temps a couple degrees to up the leaf temps to eliminate nutrient deficiencies.

This is gonna be a good thread. I'm subbed.

Merlin1147 said:

I like the IR to increase leaf surface temps with LEDs. Some people using LEDs will compensate for the lack of IR by raising temps a couple degrees to up the leaf temps to eliminate nutrient deficiencies.

Click to expand...

Have you tested LST with and without IR? How much IR was used? Is it possible to rise leaf surface temps by ~3°C against ambient like with HPS?

Interesting project, btw.
Will you open a thread and let us participate to your results?

ildiocane said:

@Airwalker16
Thank you for your answer, I'd like to keep it simple like that but my mind want somenthing more , want the best that is possible and scienfically or tested proven.
So I hope to find a way to choose the best possible solution with all the features a led grower could need

@Randomblame
I'm not a noob at all, I'm in the middle, I'm not an expert but I'm not complitely a noob.
The most important thing is a confront to someone know more than me or like me because I can't solve all my doubt by myself.
I have the possibility to create the pcb with a factory in my place, and I first want to know what price they make me for this pcb and I have to have a project before they tell me the price and afther that I'll decide if is better buy existing parts or use this custom pcb , specially if I can add different kind of spectrum and red/far red diode and also share it with the forum.
I just want to realize the BEST lamp/pcb for me and for everyone want buy it , I want to make all is possible to realize the best product and to realize that, I need confront about knowledge and also the led users need , because my needs could be differnt from your needs.
(don't worry for the delay , I appreciate your help )

Click to expand...

Samsungs new horti strips are nice but unfortunately only available in 5150°k which is a suboptimal flower spectrum(too much blue). But I like the strip design cause strips can be used with less distance and still deliver unbeatable uniformity and its currently the most efficient way for plant lighting.
Cutter has tuneble tripple row strips with two white and one colored channel and each channel has its own connectors to control them separately.

Nichia's 757v3f1 in P11 bin is even better than LM301b but they are more costly and its hard to get them. Even Nichia can only guarantee P10 currently because the yield of P11 bin is still pretty low.

Osram Square is currently the most efficient deep-red diode and top bin reach ~560mW@350mA but you can only order groups and when you order VMVO-1 you can get VM, VN or VO bin and VO has only 465mW@350mA (890-960mW@700mA).You'll get only one bin but which one you'll get is a gamble. I've ordered a dozent and got VO unfortunately.

Cree has the new XP-E2 in photored which is one bin better like the old XP-EHE's. Top bin is now D01 and they reach 450mW@350mA. So Osram is a bit better even in VO bin.

With Osram Oslon horti series(SSL120) and Cree's XP-E2 in far-red its almost the same situation. You need to search the best available bins and compare them.
There are a few more manufacturers for colored diodes but they can not keep up with the latest Osram/Cree diodes. Samsung, Luminus, Prolight, aso. are not bad at all but currently they all are at least one or two flux bins behind.

Cutters Solstrips are available with different diodes, Cree J series, Samsung LM301b and Nichia 757v3 and you can chose which colors you want on the 3rd row. I would call them the best currently. Unfortunately shipping from australia and additional custom fees adds too much to the bill for the most of us.

Randomblame said:

Have you tested LST with and without IR? How much IR was used? Is it possible to rise leaf surface temps by ~3°C against ambient like with HPS?

Interesting project, btw.
Will you open a thread and let us participate to your results?

Click to expand...

Good question. I haven’t tested the IR effect on leaf temp yet. Right now I’m more interested in the 28 hour question. It took me longer than expected to match the environments of the tents. I posed the 28 hour question here earlier and the general concensous was, “that thing will never fly!” Rather than go down the rabbit hole of idle speculation or worse, I’ll wait to see if I learn anything useful before creating a thread.

Merlin1147 said:

I like the IR to increase leaf surface temps with LEDs. Some people using LEDs will compensate for the lack of IR by raising temps a couple degrees to up the leaf temps to eliminate nutrient deficiencies.

Click to expand...

Yes, i know the theory behind this. I was hoping for some general observation as in how much IR you give at what temps, did you ever see heat stress, what distances to cannopy, have you tried only IR at night?

Not sure if this is helpful to the discussion but this is what I have running. I’m at 40K Lux about 24” over the canopy and running the red and blue channels full on with the Samsung strips throttled back. As I said this is the first go with this set up. I haven’t seen any heat stress. It’s and interesting question about leaf temp rise. When I get home I’ll take leaf temp readings with the red channel off and on full and see if there is a difference.

Samsung LM561C Strips. 40 W/sf. 73.1% of total

Blue channel
390-400 UV-A 2.1 W/sf. 3.8% of the total
400-410 True Violet. 2.1 W/sf. 3.8% of the total
410-420 Violet 1.75 W/sf 3.2% of total
420-430 Hyper Violet 0.7 W/sf. 1.3% of total
465-485 Blue 1.8 Will /sf. 3.2% of total

Red channel
620-630 Red 1.4 W/sf 2.4% of total
660 Photo Red 3.9 W/sf 7.2% of total
840-870 IR 1.1 W/sf 2% of total

Far red channel
720-740 Far Red 2.0 W/sf additional 3.6% of total

Merlin1147 said:

Not sure if this is helpful to the discussion but this is what I have running. I’m at 40K Lux about 24” over the canopy and running the red and blue channels full on with the Samsung strips throttled back. As I said this is the first go with this set up. I haven’t seen any heat stress. It’s and interesting question about leaf temp rise. When I get home I’ll take leaf temp readings with the red channel off and on full and see if there is a difference.

Samsung LM561C Strips. 40 W/sf. 73.1% of total

Blue channel
390-400 UV-A 2.1 W/sf. 3.8% of the total
400-410 True Violet. 2.1 W/sf. 3.8% of the total
410-420 Violet 1.75 W/sf 3.2% of total
420-430 Hyper Violet 0.7 W/sf. 1.3% of total
465-485 Blue 1.8 Will /sf. 3.2% of total

Red channel
620-630 Red 1.4 W/sf 2.4% of total
660 Photo Red 3.9 W/sf 7.2% of total
840-870 IR 1.1 W/sf 2% of total

Far red channel
720-740 Far Red 2.0 W/sf additional 3.6% of total

Click to expand...

I like your approach, wide blue and wide red bands. Will be doing something similar soon but were going to put plenty IR on separate channel away from red in order to better tackle the climate around here. Cold winters but hot summers. Also hoping to see if i can run IR at night without issues.

Rocket Soul said:

I like your approach, wide blue and wide red bands. Will be doing something similar soon but were going to put plenty IR on separate channel away from red in order to better tackle the climate around here. Cold winters but hot summers. Also hoping to see if i can run IR at night without issues.

Click to expand...

Roger that. I grow in a pretty cold basement and had to put heaters in the tent.