My plants are fucked :( Multiple syptoms PLEASE help

Hey there peeps,
First hydro grow and having a multitude of issues despite best efforts to not go overboard. Here is my situation, and I apologize for the long post, just trying to give you all the info....

Ebb/flow table under dual 400's. co2 (but haven't really been using it yet). Temps always between 74/87. Rez temp 69-71. Tap water through 5 micron and carbon filter. Base PPM around 50. Base PH around 6.8. 8 minute flood. 120 min between floods.

I put clones in the table about 10 days ago. They had roots but not allot of them. Issues outside my control dictated that I had to take the clones. So I put them in the table. I ran for about 4 days no nutes and then added about 75 PPM of cal/mag and botanicare grow. The lights were about 4 feet from the table. The plants looked ok but several leaves were starting to curl under but no burnt leaves. The plants started to look a little yellow. I was managing the ph but it was rising allot overnight (up to 7) this was a result of the hydroton....

So I had some issues with my hydroton not being properly soaked before going in the table and it was raising my PH..BIG TIME. Lots of research done and finally scooped as much hydroton as I could out of the table and soaked it in strong acid 3.8, watched it soar up to 6.3-6.5 and then adding more acid. After around 24 hours and nearly 1/2 cup of PH down it stabliazed around 5.5. I put it back in the table. however, since my plants are in 6" net pots filled with hydroton (now with roots) I could not treat that hydroton. I initiated a 20 minute flood while keeping ph down in the low 5's to attempt to treat the net pot hydroton. (the plants didn't look waterlogged as only the net pots had hydroton in them and not the table so they dried rather quickly.

This was plain water with about 75 ppm of superthrive. (tablesppon for 20 gallons).

After putting all the hydroton in two days ago, the PH still climbs overnight but stays between 5.7-6.2. The roots are coming out of the net pots and are all white so that is a good sign. When I put the hydroton back in the table I added 100 PPM of cal mag, 100 of liquid karma and 100 of grow. This combined with PH down and a dash of superthrive equal present ppm of 415. So they have been on this for two days. I also lowered the lights to 18 inches and the are getting between 55-68K lumens.

Sooooo... they plants still looked fuckered up.

Almost all the plants are yellow in color, they are not the typical green that I am used to. One of the plants has strong purple coloring along the leaf margins (Jack herrer), one of the blue widows is also developing this. T he mango kush plants are VERY short and tight and have developed yellowish leaves with green veins, Almost al the plants have down turned leaves, a few have tiny nute burns on the tips.






So they look like they have micro defficiences as well as nitrogen deficiency but with 400 PPM I am getting signs of nute burn.... The PH of the water has statyed between 5.8 and 6.1?

So What the fuck???? Should I foliar? Is the hydroton in the pots fucking with the ph at the roots, inhibiting uptake? Should I soak the pots and plants in low PH to try and fight this? Should I stick a gun in my mouth, wiping the tears away from a frustrating grow and end it all ?

So in summary this is the situation:

Day 1. Clones with small roots, given weak nutes 150PPM total cal/mag/ grow, 500 PPM co2, lights at 4 feet.
Day 5. heavily curling leaves, signs of deficiencies. raised PPM by another 150.
Day 7. Realized soaring PH not normal..but keeping it under control. houston, we have issues. changed rez water added superthrive and nothing else.
day 8. Removed as much hydroton as possible. soaked the shit out of it to get it neutral. long duration soaks of table with 5.4 water/superthrive to treat net pot hydroton. Plants look ok, not curling under as much. starting to develop strong yellowing/green veins and purple leaves.
Day 9. Put humpty dumpty back together again. Added 120 cal/mag. 100 grow, and 120 liquid karma. PPM at 415. Lowered lights to 18" Co2 now at 1000 ppm

Day 11. PLants loook like hell. PH still rising but very slowly. Completely bummed.


What do you guys thinK?

If I'm reading this right you are only using Cal-Mag Plus and Liquid Karma, and no Macro Nutrients.

I guess the observation I'm making is that of course they are looking hungry, you're ignoring Phosphates and Potassium.

Forget the cal-mag for now. Find yourself a good two or three part macro system and start using it. The Cal-Mag Plus isn't bad, and you'll need it again, but it isn't your primary nutrient system. There is more Calcium in that solution than there is Nitrogen. The LK can be depended on to provide the rest of the nutrition.

Rising pH, no Macro nutrients, those are your problems. Get the Macro going and maybe switch over to TechnaFlora pH Down. They use Nitric Acid which is far more stable in a hydro system with air stones. Cost you like $10 and worth every penny.

Thanks man. I'm using botanicare grow for my macros. I'll look into that ph adjuster. Went over to the hydro store and showed him the pics and rattled off my ppm. Without a moments hesitation he says " your way under feeding them". PPM should be 7-800 at least.

So I'm adding 1/2 cup calmag and 1 1/4 cup botanicare grow.

It seems that being so worried about the classic newb overfeed... I under fed

i see a whole mess of problems. like to begin with a light 4 foot away isnt doing shit to process the foods,neither is the 18 inches. they only have 18 inch total good useable light for pentration. tops should be about 4 inches from light. foods are wrong levels, pH,

no way your putting 400's 4 inches away. 12 inches is a good median. I wish i could help more but not a eb guy.

i do and is how they are meant to be run, if others cant cool that then they went to small on venting or just not enough. its only got total 18 inches good useable light.

Well I fixed the ph problem and the nute levels. In terms of lighting, I think 4" is pretty extreme. While they can probably use that light, your coverage is shit. I did a bunch of tests with my lux meter to determine which level is ideal in terms of coverage and intensity. Seems 12-14" is ideal. At 18" I'm getting 690,000 lux in the center and around 450,000 on the sides. Based on what I have read 45-69k lumens is MORE than adequate for veg.

The hydro store owner, who grows some NICE buds advised me against hitting them hard with the lights until the spring out of the deficiency problems. I have been advised by others that leaf scorch will reduce yields more than any other problem so best to err on the safe side I guess.

Thanks for the responses