Mindfulness Meditation For Medical Users

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Patients' started by DIY-HP-LED, Oct 4, 2017.


Would you like to see a mindfulness meditation course offered for pot users?

  1. yes

  2. no


    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    I would like to offer a mindfulness course guide for medical and recreational users and general discussion on this topic. I use an evidence based approach and scientific perspective to help people to progress quickly. There will be links to online courses, videos, and article sections. Private help with depression and pain can be had by PMing me. I focus on an 8 week course of training. Results depend mostly effort and how big your heart is to begin with.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    I guess the best place to start might be a crosspost from one of my other threads on here to get the ball rolling and let you know who I am. I write for enjoyment and work and often adopt personas on the other thread as literary devices and fun, I'm big on humor too and your gonna see it here. A light hearted friendly atmosphere.

    First, a cautionary tale of misfortune in pressure testing water cooled grow bars for leak testing from my other thread, an exercise in community building and culture change. I play the part of a warrior monk and hillbilly philosopher old fart (true). This should give you an idea of my style! But I take my meditation work and clients quite seriously though and can adopt any persona ya feel comfortable with from buddy to nerd, I just enjoy it and have fun. This is my version of a safety warning.

    Hydro Static Testing
    If ya build some water cooled bars (GEN 2 recommended) you might want to pressure test them just to make sure, though with Gen 2's it shouldn't be nessesarry. If you do test, don't do what these guys did...

    Let's say two buddies, call'em Jimbob and Cletus, decided to do something similar to the above and pressure test a 3"x 1" 4 foot long rectangular tubing made into a grow light water cooling tube, like the ones I'm gonna use in my grow room conversion build. After installing the hose barbs, and siliconing in the end plugs, then letting everything cure for a couple of days. Jimbob heads for the 1/2 ton to grab the compressor using a step ladder to get up into the high truck cab (we're dealing with stereotypes here).

    Now they seal one of the hose fittings with a bent back and kinked piece of vinyl hose, held tight with a nylon wire tie (a good plan for testing) and hose clamp the other end hose to the fitting. These boys don't use water and run a "dry" test to look for leak bubbles with soapy water and a brush. Jimbob fires up the compressor and the noise fills the barn, meanwhile Cetus is standing a few feet away from the end of the tube, making a YouTube video of the whole thing on his phone. After the compressor was running for awhile, the pressure on the gauge climbs to, say 40 psi (the boys did a real good job on the silicone) all of a sudden KABOOM! A plug blows out of one end of the tube and dorks ole Cetus square in the nuts, down he goes like a sack of potatoes, writhing on the floor in exquisite agony. Jimbob, who was to one side painting on soapy water looking for leaks, shits his pants. Now if this wasn't bad enough, the neighbors hearing the explosion rush to the scene, "I thought someone wuz shot", one of them says to the cop...

    This tragic situation could have been avoided entirely with hydrostatic testing, all they had to do was fill the fucking tube with water before applying pressure! When the silicone let go there would have been a gentle "blurb" sound as the end plug failed and the water leaked out, the plug would probably still be in place. Cletus would have his nuts unscathed and Jimbob wouldn't need a change of underwear. If there was any pressure in the supply hose, it might cause a little spray, but I doubt it. The compressor would have only run for a minute and there would have been much less potential energy in the system because liquids are in-compressible. Avoid explosive decompression, USE HYDROSTATIC PRESSURE TESTING, keep your nuts, your wife might appreciate that.

    In this case, Jimbob and Cletus screwed up so you don't have to.

    Another, humorous version of an old teaching story, this is an adult site so I don't mind the language, don't make the mistake of snowflaking over it though, cause I'll screw ya into the ground, if I figure yer just an arse and not seriously distraught. We ain't always nice... this is from a more general thread I created. https://www.rollitup.org/t/canada-grows-to-the-4-plant-limit.948839/page-11

    I think I'll intersperse somethings I learned (free) from my masters and they were many, including my friends. If yer the kind that isn't interested, unsubscribe, cause being here won't do you any good. Teaching stories can be important in learning a practice or how to live in general.

    Long long ago in a place far far away a young student was bitching to his gentle master about having trouble concentrating on his breath. The old man smiled gently with a bit of a twinkle in his eye and told the student to come with down with him to the river and look at his own reflection in the water (pre-mirror days). As the student gazed lovingly at his own reflection, the gentle master grabbed the arrogant sonofabitch by the scruff of the neck and plunged his head into the water and held him there until he fuck'n near stopped thrashing. When he pulled the young man out panicked and sputtering he looked him in the eye and said, "was your breath important to you then"! Jus so ya know where I'm coming from, we ain't always nice, we act in your interest and not in our own, cause if we didn't, we wouldn't be worth a damn, to ourselves, or anybody else. And no, I didn't misspell wisdom, I just don't want to get too full of myself, cause this is a wisdom practice.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    A recent "Enlightenment"
    Experience and falling on the wagon

    Insights and Practice

    The subconscious forces aren't done with me yet and I feel the need to share it with others and get it down, before the thoughts slipped away as I begin a busy day. I had a game plan last night, but life got in the way, don't wanna bother friends with this, cause most are confused and some are shocked, me too! I'm trying to skillfully council my older sister as she approaches the end of her life as we must all do. She is a courageous woman who will never see these words and has lived in constant pain for years. I tried many times to start her on a practice and I figure the time is right for both of us, now, I love her dearly, but I might not share too much with her. I wanna start her on cannabinoid therapy again and will talk to her about it as a training aid, to encourage development of her brain regions that allow us to cope in these situations.

    I just got out of the shower and places like that are where insights occur, I need to share these for the same reason the old masters shared too. Traditionally meditation is taught one on one, with a true and deep loving relationship with student and master. Not many Donalds were murdered, they were most often told to get lost in a most skillful way. I don't really agree with this outlook, but who am I to judge, since folks like Donald occupy a special place outside my heart! Ever walk into a room and smell shit or vomit? Yer nose screws up and ya stop breathing automatically and ya can't train it away either!

    What's going on with me is a hijacking of the natural parent child relationship, in tradition an older man or woman (the master) taught the apprentice, assisted by many "journeymen" monks with years of experience in the "trade" . A tradesman is the best metaphor for this combination of book learning and practice, doing is more important than reading here, but past wisdom and insights are valued too. The group is organized hierarchically usually by age and experience, novices have to wear white for a year and bow to everybody who's been there longer. In many cultures retired farmers etc are on the retirement program and don't practice, but have to be bowed to and treated with respect. This usually wittles most down to size even before they begin formal training, but they train along with the rest. Sitting, walking, metta and other mindfulness practices are part of the training in most cultures. Tibetan practices are called the new vehicle in the language, but I don't think it is better than the way of the elders, just more variety and a lot of scholarship. In Tibet they combine Buddhism with the native Gom religion and it is a synthesis of the newer indian forms of practice. The Chinese invasion of Tibet forced many masters and advanced students (masters are students too) to leave in a diaspora that is benefiting the world in general. They have much to teach and many are in Canada now and reside quietly as exceptional citizens and many have moved into family life too as householders. You didn't have to climb mountains to learn the secret of life, Winnipeg would do just fine, if you were looking that is.

    Gotta go see my sister, but this will help me to remember other stuff and I might post some more on this topic. Not preaching here, just getting things down before I forget them and I write most effectively to others, not myself (social dynamic at work).

    Key conclusions:
    This is a hijacking of the parent child relationship and since villages raised children, the feelings can get spread wide, with training, it's like being on steroids
    A multiplier effect on the intellectual areas of the brain that deal with the protection of others and children especially. The opposite is true when we act out of anger or excessive greed/need and are generally self interested. We can do work stuff,cause for the most part we're part of a group, but when we get too self interested we get stupid too. Evolution made us this way because it protects the group. People comment all the time on how stupid and childish such people are. Think of the Donald for an extreme example of this, but he too must be loved to a degree, to be understood. A roman general once said "We must love our enemies before we can understand and defeat them", ancient wisdom too...

    New mothers are stupid! Why do they temporarily shave off IQ points? Simple, their brains are plastic and social stuff becomes really important for a mother who wants the support of the clan and raise children to survive such an environment, relatives help the most. Postpartum depression can exacerbate pre existing depressive states and really throw some for a loop and temporarily break the mother child relationship. This can be the root cause of difficulties for many and a cascade effect can occur, if one is repeatedly victimized. We retreat into a defensive crouch and it interferes with socialization and happiness because we have to feel right in our relations to others to be happy and well balanced. Though there are many causes for human suffering this is one of the more common. Any form of self interest with adults when it comes to children, is a sure sign that there's trouble ahead, most of the time it's just accidental though.

    Since I got the blue tooth mouse from Hell, a cheap rat might be on the agenda today too, after I visit my sister, pick up the car at the garage and attend to important things, I'll work on the light. It's a good thing I'm using my breath and feet to feel bodily sensations automatically and can stay in the present moment easily. But I've gotta formally practice more, it's as hard as running 3 miles a day to maintain though. I'm fat, ugly and old, but figure if I can get something regular to tie it to, I'll manage. Regular students are a big help, cause ya often meditate with them. Ya gotta keep up to speed, cause some might try to get ya, when they get good at it, then they will have arrived too. That might happen real quick for most people even if they smoke pot, cause they are part way there, or know a better way, which I and others are working on...

    Ok, enough of the preamble, so the rest is gonna be article based until someone wants help or a more structured course, though most will be able to pick up the ball and run, with the help of the links and videos. Depression clients are recommended to local mindfulness medical programs, if available. MBCT (Mindfulness based cognitive therapy) is recommended for those who wanna get quality help and the audio course can be obtained online or through a book store. I'll post a section on depression with some videos on it, PM me if ya can't wait, I'm here to help and will monitor the thread.

    If you use pot you can meditate and it will help you to quiet your mind too, the older the better, but it may assist the sculpting process of the brain. You can use pot and practice too.

    I'm going tribal and clan on the moral and ethical issues, not Buddhist, go with yer instincts. The Buddhist mental model is quite a useful paradigm though and will be employed and the basic meditation and rules recommended to those who feel romantic or are on a spiritual quest.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Teaching and Humor (Adult)
    I have been working on the "rules" of practice, not Buddhism, scientific insights have been pouring out of me for days through subconscious processes, we are truly more complex than I thought. The social/intrapersonal dynamic is so important for happiness, when I get a new manual written I'll share it free here. Why here? I'm not developing a messianic complex, I hope not, cause I got friends who would crucify me if I did! Burned alive on the fuck'n cross, fur fuck'n sure! And I know just the feller who would spark up the goddam match! It's kinda like Jesus among his fellow outcasts, me and pot users/growers! I used large quantities of pot later in life while these subconscious forces raged, I was a nice guy all along, fer the most part! Ok, I had a feller take a pair of scissors to me fur self defense, cause I fuck'n near had both ears chewed off em when I was high! I carried bandaids and left a trail of mutilated ears in my wake. For a few years my path became one of bloody ears!

    I need to teach now, no choice in the matter really, when I retired from work I retired from a teaching practice too and you can't do that really, if you've been practicing as long as me. I figured I could enjoy myself in selfish pleasures, but the changes are to deep, I was unhappy. I had a skill set that can reduce suffering and have to use it the best I can, putting others interested before my own, as all top good teachers do, that is the wellspring of happiness and strength for those like me, we don't burn out, but get stronger.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Learn to Meditate For Fun & Profit!
    Ok I can't resist, I don't take the meditation stuff too seriously it's just a sport type thing to me and I'm more a coach, to most folks, people with more serious concerns like depression need some one on one or group therapy type meditation stuff. Corporations also use mindfulness, though I don't know how, but I might have stumbled on to it myself here. It's tribe and clan based, become a clan ( family, not klu klux!) cause it's legal and you can do amazing things together. If you wanna be a 60 day wonder (8 week) who maintains a practice in the morning before work, at lunch during work, and pays attention to yer job experience, mindful walking, exercise etc. There are many useful free websites, I'll look through some bookmarks fur a sec Ya can puff and practice too, tie it to work and try a bit on the weekends

    Here is my favorite Buddhist nerd, Doctor Kelly Mcgonagall for a scientific view of the subject. Entertaining educational and a good place to start, might be the best 20 minutes of your life. Very general and easy on the head, good stoned entertainment fur nerds.

    Another fast paced and really good video with a lot of tips and motivation, guy does other neat topics, worth a look 15 min

    A wise master go to youtube for more

    That should do ya for now, if ya wanna start I'll post some university websites that have free practice programs etc. I'm here to help and enjoy teaching, here in general, or PM for private issues. Have a look, just because ya smoke pot, don't think it isn't for you.

    If grow you might start hanging around the dispensaries to make new friends! If ya practice, you'll be less fear driven and see trouble coming easier. Read people easy and if ya wanna quit puffing the best way is to practice at work. You will automatically quit after a bit of regular hour long (2 x 30 min) and practice mindfulness through the day and you might start at the gym! Assuming ya don't feel like someone hit ya in the forehead with a pan shovel in the morning. An old head can wake and bake and have a sit before long and a good one too. It's how big yer heart is that counts for happiness, not how big yer brain is. Think about this for a second, we do everything in life to be happy, it has no ulterior motive. Many mistake pleasure for happiness there's a difference, pleasure is ephemeral and usually needs an external source. Happiness like peace comes from with in. Even fly fishing can be a meditation if done right, or weight training. Yoga is the mindfulness choice for women, cause it gives'm a nice butt to boot! Women is smarter than men at this shit too, ask any husband!

    Curios? or Dead young? Gimme a buzz on mindfulness practice and I'll send ya to the right places. The web is full of this shit and I can offer some guidance. If you suffer from depression or the blues, definitely look into this. It's for normal people who have been fucked over by life and don't like it, fuck'n near everyone! Depression and chronic pain are the biggest things this does medically, but the health benefits are endless, just like any exercise, only this one ya sit on yer ass and feel yer body and attend to yer experience, start slow and train like a fanatic, if you thought pot was fun, wait till ya see what this can do to ya in 8 weeks. Enjoy the videos and post me a reply fur more stuff ta get you or anybody on the way.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Some Fun and my Life Experience
    I like to live dangerously! With flood light COBs anyway, I get creative at junkyards with the boys and did you know many like to smoke pot! They are quite friendly fellows when treated with dignity and respect. Used to visit every friday and you'd be amazed at what they can set aside fur ya. The "junkyard dogs" tails were wagging and their tongues were hanging out, cause I had milk bones fur them too. It's more than just spending money to get what ya want, but about being creative in several different ways, blame my practice. I paid at the boss's desk like everybody else but got what I was looking for over time, laughs and fun visiting the guys and doing a little human trade

    Even though I'm 62, I believe I have the mental flexibility of 30 year old, or so science says. Thicker cerebral cortex than the average bear, physical changes to prefrontal cortex etc. Not bragging, just promoting. Though I might really be a narrow minded old fart, like all the rest!

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Health Alert:clap:
    Was just reading this online...
    If ya wanna stay sharp, stay high! Pot might not be so great for young folks brains, but if yer over 50 (if yer not now, you will be, if yer lucky), it's a different ball game. Lot's of new research coming out on the health benefits, particularly for older folks. It may slow down or stop not just alzheimer's, but general age related neural decline, you won't have a 1000 yard stare and drive at 10mph in a few years. When it comes to pot, I think it'll end up as, "Old Farts Rule"! Imagine what the media/political reaction will be to a successful clinical trial for alzheimer's, the health websites, TV, health magazines and newspapers will be all over it. Why even ole Jeff Sessions will be high, either that or watch his brains run outta his ears. Other research shows there's every indication that it is highly effective for brain injuries too by preventing brain cell death and aiding recovery. So there's good news for the youngins after all. They've done (and are doing) a lot of work with old folks and pot in Israel and recently greatly expanded medical access.


    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    My Belief
    I only have one faith and that is in the power of compassion to relieve human suffering, I've now accepted this and can move on, for once our eyes have been opened, you can really only go back to unhappiness...

    Many people need to know and understand that even though they smoke pot, they can still gain much from a practice. So does everybody else. The younger you are the more it clouds your mind and interferes with concentration, but the effects are temporary and you seem to have a better memory than before, a net gain in capacity. The older you get though the easier it gets to maintain a practice and use pot. It does not interfere with the heart (compassion) much as far as I can see, appears to be positive, judging by the culture that grew up around it. Remove the forces of greed and then see how it goes. I'd turn in any body who sold it to kids or people in their formative years though.

    If ya really wanna know what makes ya tick, watch yer cat. She has done more for you in terms of happiness than most people and you owe her. Even a cat can operate in compassionate mode and when the love ya there's no middle ground, though much of the time they appear to be self centered. They operate mentally (emotionally) about half way between us and lizards, even compassion is necessary for a cat and even though they aren't particularly social, they have young which must be cared for.

    Humans also have young, but the developmental process to independence is the slowest of all animals, but we're the smartest and most social too. It's not that we are smart as individuals that has allowed us to temporarily conquer other life on this world, but our social intelligence and when we operate in compassionate mode, that is at it's peak. Emotional intelligence is closely linked with social intelligence. Just as our educations exercised innate abilities in our intellectual minds, so to can the training rapidly increase emotional, as well as, social intelligence. It does this by keeping us in compassionate mode, which we use to protect our young and communities No tiger or other animal can long threaten a group of humans who band together and come up with a plan to do it in.

    Unlike regular education, meditation allows you progress quickly and in short order, if you integrate the stuff, this and the practice tips mentioned into yourself experientially, and is not book learned, just do it and shut up will ya! Good advice fur sure...

    When you've done this as long as I have, it seeps into yer soul and there ain't no go'n back, yer screwed! What an idiot I was to get involved in this stuff, it wasn't really in my own self interest, which is why I started!

    When I didn't fully understand the above, I called myself a journeyman, a tradesman, if you will. When I fully understood what it was all about, better than most people who teach, I chose the name Bodhidharma and became a master... ( of Buddhist nerdery);)

    Most spend a lifetime pursuing Buddhism and are on a self centered journey, reading and doing a lot of Bullshit, for the most part, many never progress much other than being a bit better persons. The internet abounds with charlatans and bullshit artist of every kind, trying to sell for profit, what has been traditionally given away free, because we care enough for others to do so and not make a dime off their suffering. Those who truly understand, put others before themselves are masters too, and most don't watch a breath their entire lives...

    I don't need to sit on my ass all day to know this, but it helps a lot to keep yer eyes a little bit wider and your emotions under control, but not too much, or we might not get as pissed off as we should...
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Some thoughts to a friend on a night of Englightenment
    Maybe if those "Buddhist Masters" who teach online, or the TV Bible thumpers, or other such kind, read a little science, it would help them to understand what is going on...

    In my online project, I must be careful to act in others interests or I will fail, in my purpose to alleviate human suffering on a larger scale and integrate new values into a community of fellow humans. To isolate those who operate on an animal need/greed basis who would harm others and children because their selfish desires. My understanding of my own nature and that of others ads me greatly in this task. It will only work if good people think it is right and proper and if they can "get some", this will under cut the black market. You know how much profit there is in pot, if the price drops sufficiently, the incentives disappear, the risk won't be worth the reward. The greedy behave logically...


    I need to meditate more. Most of this stuff is pouring out of my subconscious and is taking me aback, so I need to sit more and smoke less, tough I'm not smoking much.

    Work was a great aid to training and even though I had a busy job with many balls in the air at once, I found time to practice. Because of the psychological flexibility that practice promotes, I used an imposed discipline to aid one that is difficult to maintain. I came in early practiced for 40 min before work anywhere I could find a place and put in some ear plugs to tone down the noise a bit. I didn't take that long to get offered a much better office job that was more challenging and interesting. Eventually a sociopath took over the company and not long after that we had a high anxiety one running the shop. I've seen supervisors vomit blood in waste paper baskets, we had a talk! One big boss a bit younger than me had a heat attack and almost died, except his wife saved him on the kitchen floor. He came to the shop in a low stress job, training 200 new apprentices, when all the experienced guys were heading for the door because of the social conditions that greed had created, one of the reasons I hung around a bit. I would corner him in the office and send emails, trying to save his life, I think I might have succeeded too, cause he was a pretty smart guy and if I coulda talked to his wife I woulda had her with a stick on him.

    I would sit before work and at lunch, because I could eat at my desk whenever I wanted. If I had nothing to do I attended to my experence, watched my breath notice my feet on the floor and tried to get into feeling every bodily sensation. I often had a sit after super too for 20 min, after a shower works nice for this. Did metta at the gym at work on the elliptical for forty minutes sometimes also when I was swimming, I used metta bodily sensations and the controlled breath. I learned to swim better by attending to my swimming in detail.

    I guess what this is really all about is: Use work, an imposed discipline to foster a difficult one, is the best advice I could give anyone, in how to maintain a practice and exercise yer brain. Start slow, a little helps a lot, but you must be consistent and try to learn as many tricks as you can to relax. Remember your giving the old prefrontal cortex the 20 minute work out and your brain is gonna be changing physically, it's an exercise above all else. Like in exercise stuff happens in a practice stuff happens too, many changes are on a subconscious level and weird shit might happen like yer floating in the air etc. We want to flood the prefrontal cortex with blood through exercise, this only happens when we are relaxed and can feel at ease. You do't have to fold yourself up like a damn pretzel on the floor either, a comfortable chair will do, maintaining an upright proper posture aids in connecting with yer body cause it's a pain to do at first.

    • I work on processes not problems with my students, problems are the meat and potatoes of a practice and they're all yours, if ya want.
    • Have no goal, this is not like other work and problem solving, we are working with a different part of the brain. Chronic fear and stress causes changes in the brain. You ain't normal, a few are, natural causes, or training...

    Most of this is coming straight from the subconscious and I have little awareness of what will come out of my finger tips next. I'm not even thinking about the writing it's just flowing out.Haven't worked on the lamp either, more important things are going on with in me. Late nights, I'm off my sleep cycle, maybe I'm going through cannabis withdrawal! Naw, been there done that! I have a great deal of experience with that particular item, coffee is more addictive. I like the selfish pleasure of getting high, period and it doesn't bother me at all, because I think I've become a better person, maybe because of it. It doesn't appear to have made me stupid, though you might disagree with that one and myself on occasion too! I believe in what I'm doing and that's the most important thing. I have a more objective outlook than most (training).

    I came to these realizations mostly on my own, other academic and scientist practitioners did too. I designed my own course from my own experience as a practitioner as all professionals in this business do. It is based on my understanding of the process and my life experience, I'm as good as any in my field IMHO and have a lot of training and experience. Most importantly, I understand what I'm doing and put others before myself, the hallmark of a good teacher.

    It would be difficult to be mindful and a drunk for long, alcohol interferes with neurogenesis and synaptic genesis too much. I can't teach a drunk anything, until they sober up for a bit and if they are older I would recommend moderate cannabis to aid, not training, but these factors.

    I'm not a Saint or Bodhisattva, just someone trying to be more human and exercising those parts of the brain that have to do with it. I don't need the stick and carrot of Heaven and Hell. A monkey can follow a rule book, if ya got the book, the monkey understands it, and ya got somebody to swing the stick, in away I'm just another monkey too. I have my own rulebook though and it's called right and wrong; wrong is when we put ourselves before others, everything else is ok. Remember this rule and do everything you can to make sure it's enforced, in yourself, as well as others. That is what I've learned from my practice and why I modestly teach, I have no one to grab me, when I screw up and could have a large following if I wished. But egotism is not my purpose, happiness and wisdom are. But that is changing because that too is selfish and I should run the risk at AA at least, if I join as a peer, but not for the usual reasons.

    Now you should have some idea about me and what drives me through life, I've discovered the secret to happiness and would like to share. I feel like a greedy bastard, in that I can't effectively do this on as large a scale as possible. I'm creative, so I'm sure something will pop up from my subconscious mind! Maybe a few things have. This is how it works and why you should think I know what I'm doing. I started on a spiritual quest traditionally called the way or the path, it a very wise and ancient path. My goal became to understand this and since I believe in science, use it's knowledge and understanding to aid my own. Two forces in this world have done much to reduce human suffering, science and Buddhism. One is largely objective and the other subjective, both meet on honest ground where honorable people speak and bullshit artists with no true understanding run.

    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    More Insights and explanations
    Compassion takes control of the forces of hatred, greed and anger, the base emotions and uses it to it's own ends. Fear will not stop you from saving a child from a bear, your logical mind would be figuring out what to do, if others in your group were nearby, those not driven by fear would respond or greed for their own lives and safety. This is why we conquered the world and why I will conquer my foe, suffering.

    If someone is harming another, say someone is accosting a woman, feel free to identify with her, make her part of yer group and deal with the animal in the most skillful way. First use skillful means of empathy and inclusion to dissuade, but.. Frighten, rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill. If you must resort to violence, go all out cause yer right and are acting in others interests and not yer own and get as ugly as you need and you won't feel bad, but good. Escalate violence quickly and get it over quick, use every dirty trick you can think of. War is Hell. Be an angry warrior in the fight for others! I encourage it, be a warrior like me, you'll do more good than spending a lifetime sitting on yer ass. If need a new name, pick one, though Bodhidharma is a good one for my type. Those who are on the path chose a name for themselves, in the Buddhist tradition usually the teacher gives it to ya, earn a good one.

    Humor is important too, it shows empathy and builds trust. Men tease instinctively to make sure those around them are stable. The last thing you need is to be hunting the tiger and depending on the likes of Donald Trump for help, yer dead meat, so ya check him out on a regular basis. nothing to feel guilty about. The more easily offended you are, the more bullshit you have to defend and the less likely you will be in dealing with stressful situations. Though I'd shit my pants and run like Hell flat out if the bear was chasing me and I couldn't do anybody else any good except save by being bait to save a child or other. People kill and give themselves to save each others in battle because of group identification, they identify with their buddies in a small group of individuals and have empathy for those in the same circumstances, sometimes even the enemy. Militaries have known this a long time, by evolutionary trial and error. A hundred organized police who self identify as a group, have training, experience and a plan, can control thousands, unless they are really pissed, then they will organize too and if the cops ain't doing the right thing, things could get ugly. Right up to civil war and mass disobedience (sound familiar) and national strikes etc.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Technical stuff
    Meditation is a process of sensitization, we notice the sensations of our breath and watch it's subtle tactile sensations. Thinking is linear and one thing at a time just like a computer, another unconscious part of our brain has the larger picture of awareness, the senses. Egotism interferes with perception and filters reality through self delusion and previous information, we tend to believe the first thing we hear and discount subsequent information, hence to top down learning from and older individual vs bottom up for a kid. Hey kid don't eat those poison mushrooms, listen and head or yer dead cause yer too stupid to live. Anybody who tells ya them thar mushrooms is not poison is a goddam liar and you want to kill them, as a way to protect the community. Whether it be true or not, cause yer for the most part a social being and have evolved that way. Evidence based practice, very scientific nerdy stuff

    Human nature is not bad, but good, this should put those philosophical questions to bed, for our survival in another time and place with different circumstances. And if we can maintain this tribal socal way of life in small close nit communities of family based clans toa few hundred individuals, we feel most at ease and happiest. Most of the time we need a lot of help to maintain perspective and practice helps use cause yer internal experience molds these parts of the brain even in older adults, it is the most adaptable part of the brain and can quickly be changed and sensory awareness increased. This is a process that hundreds of millions of others have gone through in history, read all about it in the book, very useful. I've been in and outta the "bag" so many times I've lost count. Take your training seriously, like any other athlete and do the things that foster success. Meditation is exercise and like any exercise is hard to stick with, but with the right coach you can move along surprisingly quickly, serous morphological changes occur in only a few weeks of practice. All of this stuff is recently discovered since science now has the tools of MRI, PET and SPEC? scanners that can see the living brain in action. I'm no Buddha or arrant, but a science fan who took up practice and wanted to find out why, and got roped in, what a fool I was!

    And yes yer brain will bitch like Hell during the process as it tries to resist the changes, both positive and negative (stress), but ignore that shit and forge ahead, read about practice problems and tips in a book. Buddhism has a rich history in this sort of thing and a lot of experience and you know how much I respect and admire experience and genuine expertise in others. Many things will happen on a conscious level, insights, paradoxes, the traditional hindrances. I'm essentially gonna hand ya off to a better master for yer basic instruction and beginning practice. Later we can deal with the advanced stuff like those topics mentioned above, keep them in mind as you learn. You must engage your intellectual mind, as well, and that is your greatest asset in this pursuit, read the book to practice right in the beginning. They know all the tricks and problems with phenomena occurring during practice and have 2500 years of experience, so you won't hear anything from me on that. That part of your day to day training I'll leave to yerself and better masters. I have given you knowledge and understanding, the rest is up to you. You must first climb the mountain before you can enjoy the view, I can throw ya a rope ladder from the top! iId do it fur any buddy, Donald wouldn't even see it swinging in front of him cause he is blind, can't hear and can't feel anything important. Think how lucky you are!
    Teachers who care motivate their students to do better, sometimes it even includes the strap!
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    An Overview

    The prefrontal areas in our brain are the most recently evolved parts of the human brain and the most plastic. These areas allow us to interact with others and to be successful with in ourselves (happy) and they evolved in a social context. With small clan groups forming communities for mutual support and protection through cooperative effort. If behavior the of individuals was extreme or a threat to the community the person was ostracised, which was really a death sentence.

    These prefrontal cortex regions rapidly respond and are physically altered by changing social dynamics through change and growth and rewiring. Some neural growth, but mostly synaptic genesis (making connections). Like most things related to humans habituation effects good and bad cause morphological changes in brain structure. Over a short period of time the physical structure of the brain changes by training, in as little as a week I believe, can be detected by MRI scanner. The areas trained respond rapidly cause evolution made it that way, to survive social situations and make us feel right within ourselves.

    The areas I deal with and all meditation teachers deal with is this prefrontal region of the brain. Most teach Buddhism, I do not, but it is based on it for the training. Buddhism came up with this stuff and all the rules are right, but traditionally there was no understanding of the underlying processes at work. They did an excellent job nonetheless of figuring out have folks should behave and developed meditation methods to do this along with moral and ethical codes. These guys are the real pros and every scientist who studies this stuff says so, they have experience, big time. They know all the ways you should try to live during training and all the traditional problems and tips for doing it. Books are better than me for this stuff and that's where I send most everybody for basic guidance.

    My manual will be more of the above based stuff, I'll let the real ancient experts cover the details of training for the smart and educated. Those who might need some extra help will get general nice guy advice, good citizen stuff and other guidance, underlying principles will be emphasized like noticing tactile sensation for breathing etc

    Mindfulness means watching our mental step in so far as our relationship with others and with ourselves. Being judgemental means you're not operating in compassionate (max coop social) mode and other emotions, traditionally called fear, greed and anger are in control under everything else and driving the agenda. These really are valence states where certain propensities can arise more easily. I'm not very book learned in this stuff, most is drawn from experience and subject observation of my own mental processes during training. I'm starting again, not all day but a regular sit I can tie to something regular or social, so I'm going back in the "bag" again.

    New stuff:
    Just yer brain and how many times ya got fucked over in life involved, most of the time you were right. This rewires your reaction to that and lets ya start fresh and drop baggage. There a saying in the business, meditation is about what ya lose more than what ya gain.
    Tactile sensations are important for generating empathy and emotions are expressed in the body, like a cat. Feel your body, feel your emotional state and correct it quick before ya lose it.
    Most changes are subconscious you just feel better, smile more and feel at more ease with others. many changes are permanent in nature just like the things they replaced if not deal with.

    This is a private personal journey of happiness and self discovery, ya don't mind for the most part cause it's really painless. It as hard to keep up as, running three miles a day, like any other exercise and that's really how ya no it is one, nothing comes for free.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Pain and Depression

    Normal people frequently suffer pain and depression and there's more in common than you might think. Both physical pain and depression use the same networks in the brain to inflict suffering on you. The pain of social rejection uses much of the same mental hardware as physical pain! A big part of the suffering of depression are feelings of social rejection, isolation, loneliness and a critical voice inside that won't go away. Good news, it's all crap, the voice is chalk full of it! How you stop it, is not by running away, but by looking at it, like any other pain, which it really is, your suffering from the pain of old wounds, just like those who ache from old injuries. Unlike those who suffer from physical pain, most of the time your pain and suffering will evaporate into thin air, with a short amount of serious practice. I was going to make this two sections in one topic header, but think I should lump them together and use both together, since they are both suffering, much or all, unnecessary.

    If you watched the video above by Dr McGonagall, you'll have some grasp as to what might be going on in your mind/brain and why, if you suffer from pain and/or depression. The treatment plan for both groups is really the same, with pain you already know the why of your suffering, with depression, you don't most of the time. The good news for both pain and depression is that you can train your mind/brain through a simple set of exercises and modify the structure of your physical brain. Your brain responds to your perceived experience, not objective reality, and is molded by your day to day experience, your thoughts and most importantly WHAT YOU ATTEND TO. Attention is like a spotlight on a garden, where the light shines, the plants grow, what you attend to externally and internally determines how some parts ( much really) of your brain develop. Meditation works to improve how you feel deep down inside, by connecting you to your feelings. This can happen in weeks and if you get a cat or love your pet, it can help too, more than you might think.

    Notice how in english we have one word for two seemingly different things, feelings. We have feelings, as in you hurt my feelings, emotional and feel (tactile), as in feel your butt on the chair, do it now! In teaching practice, I want you to connect with your bodily feelings, that is one of the things the formal exercises do. After a few weeks of formal training you'll feel much better, energetic and motivated, then you start moving your practice more and more into your life. If you practice before work in the morning (recommended), you might notice more friendly looks and smiles directed your way automatically, especially right after practice and you're dealing with others. This is because it works both ways, the knot in your face has relaxed and others can subconsciously detect the changes, it's working. Mindfulness practice is largely an automatic subconscious retraining of the prefrontal regions or social regions of the brain. Depression is a social thing that affects happiness, pain a physical phenomena, inflicts suffering on well adjusted people and the not so much, and causes unhappiness.

    To be continued after some cat kissing and housework...
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Explanation and what I'm up to
    I've recently had a wonderful interpersonal experience called an epiphany or a mini enlightenment by the religious. I was really a guilt trip, but a positive one for me and others most! I've spontaneously quit smoking large quantities of good quality cannabis, I'm dropping bad habits and picking up new, without meditating at all throughout the process! My concerns became suddenly for others and not myself and my happiness level went throught the roof, my social skills are very positively extreme and have exploded as well in my ability to read others and see their suffering, as I can look into my own mind. My concerns are with others and not focused on myself. Not a moral or ethical thing (but it is), not look at me and how great I am, but the result of many years of mental training, like a body builder has larger muscles than he would have with out all the training and healthy, stable lifestyle to support the changes he is looking to foster.
    Even though I don't really need to meditate these days to be happy and well adjusted by regular standards living like a lot of nice people, secretly and subconsciously it was driving me nuts! I have a skill set that I can share, I'm very good at what I do too and can relieve a lot of the suffering I see around me and felt selfish deep down inside, cause I am/was. There is no going back for me, I know the secret of happiness and must share or die inside. I don't really care what others think of me only my example counts, wait that sounds paradoxical? I don't care what judgemental people think of me, because their motives are suspect, but what compassionate people think, is an entirely different matter because they will probably be right and I can't argue if they are. I just learn them, try to do better next time and move on, this is more than enough for those who love you, and the more they do, the more patient they will be. My example to others is important because they have to take me seriously and have confidence in me, so acting compassionate and dressing nice, dieting and exercise are important to me. This works to my advantage, I'm happier, dress better, behave more human, eat better, get off my ass and exercise, and can do it all with a lot less effort than before, in fact much is automatic. It's all based on my concern for others.

    Now for some self absorption and explanation and example.
    I'm getting back on my sleep cycle again by going forward and not back, just like science says I should do, you might have noticed the post time on the above article. I arose at 3 Am cause I went to bed early in the evening and knew that I was wasting my time in bed, got up made a cup of coffee and a toasted cheese sandwich, I'll do for now. Gathered up some garbage for trash day and had a 30 minute formal sit in my favorite kitchen chair, Not too concentrated cause it's been a while and lots of emotional stuff is going on too. I consider it an excellent sitting, all are really, even if your not zonked out after and figure it was of not much value. The changes are subconscious and your re programming the reactions to past mental trauma, it might have been important for working out some mental knots and dropping baggage. In the business they say, "A meditation practice is not about what you gain, but about what what you lose, your baggage.

    After my practice I felt like doing house work, the only thing on my mind was the insights I needed to get across to others or figuring a way to help my seriously troubled students/friends/relatives. Much of the text you see here will be in a free manual that is in the process of being written now, you don't need to wait though, read along with me and start your practice with my renewal of mine. The section on depression was lucid and helpful and was written after a sitting and some more housework. That's the pattern I think I'm gonna follow here for a bit, a sit some housework, cleaning and then continue with the pain and depression section. I'll use the simple non thinking tasks like cleaning for a meditation practice, shifting my focus from attending deeply to my tasks and trying to get right into the experience including how the wet rag or sponge feels in my hand, to thinking about the next stages or planing the next task a bit and watching my mind and emotions the whole time. My task becomes my anchor and sometimes my breath, doesn't realy matter much as long as I'm not self absorbed, cause I don't want to train my mind in that direction.

    Time for some work a little sit and perhaps continue with the section on pain and depression because there's more needs to be said and others very lives may depend on it, great motivation, if you're in compassion mode. Back in a bit, after something else useful to do while I organize my thoughts better, works for us both better! You can see even though I've got lot's of training, I've got problems and issues just like you and you might see some mental flexibility displayed here too, lead by example, from the front.

    This is a book manual in progress, with much that my cats want to contribute, by getting between me and the keyboard! They are outdoor cats much of the time and many came from there to a new home and better life, so they must like me! Seriously, if you're depressed, you're meditating right now and have been for years...
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Pain and Depression continued...

    Normal people suffer from pain and depression, usually both together, some seem to handle it better than others and severe pain in some doesn't even show much to others. Severe depression is obvious to all, even the sufferer, even periodic bouts of the blues get noticed by friends, family and others. So let's look a little closer at what's going on, pain sufferers should follow along for insight and understanding. Usually depression is treated as a separate subject and on it's own for a very good reason, the same one as why its treated so seriously by professionals and should be by you! Depression can be fatal, the most dangerous of all the "mental illnesses" and taken seriously by those who know, attend to your experience here! It's not just you who is at risk but your children, family, friends and others. Your self centered behavior is harming yourself, your children and others in your life, if there are any left that is, cause people flee from negativity for self protection and don't want to be dragged down with you into misery and feeling sorry for yourself. Some even commit suicide and if they are egotistical, they sometimes take others with them. If you're only planning on removing yourself from the picture and even concerned for those who will find your body, that is a real tragedy, because help and hope, would have been a little work and a few weeks away. If you're the mass murder type, move on, there's nothing for you here, but I could be wrong, it depends on your level of concern for the welfare of others.

    Many depressed people feel much better and content when they made the decision to end their lives, the voice goes silent, they are happy and show concern for others are not so self absorbed. The critical voice has been frightened to death, it went too far, it shuts up, cause it knows it's gonna die, cause it's another part of you and it wants to live as do other parts of your brain. You've in your suffering and self delusion might think you've stumbled across the answer to your big problem, self removal from the tribe. You are at peace, because it won't belong now, many of your friends and family are happy for you, you seem better, the perceptive and knowledgeable in your life are extremely concerned. The real reason it's a tragedy, is that these people are concerned for others, they just never learned to leverage that for happiness peace and contentment. I'll show you how to not only silence the voice, but to hunt it down and kill it, before it kills you, war is Hell. Not to worry though, you'll enjoy it along with the rest of your life too and hopefully that life will be healthier, happier and long.

    I'm not going to show you these things myself, but will have a lot of professional help, locally, with a MBSR (Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction) program the most common type of medical program. If you are fortunate, an MBCT (Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy) program is available in your area and is the most effective treatment for depression, better than pills. Speaking of pills or more specifically anti depressants, I'm not a big fan of them, they are not the best solution, but the best your doctor could come up with. Because of reactions to suddenly stopping these medications, don't stop taking them, start your practice and continue taking your meds for now. Always talk to your doctor about what your doing, how it's working and if you need the medication adjusted changed, tapered off, etc, I'm not a doctor, it's a medical decision and one left in professional hands. If you get to a point in your practice where these medications aren't required and you disagree with your doctor, a simple solution is a challenge. You tell the doctor the side effects are too troublesome, you feel better and would like to consult a psychiatrist or psychologist about the issue and would like them to forward a recommendation to him/her. Seeking the counsel of the wise works here too, your family doctor might not know as much as they should about you or your condition. Err on the side of caution with depression, all the pros do and there are many dead reasons why.

    Since there is a maximum post limit here, this will be broken up into smaller sections than usual. In the next section I'm gonna dig up some useful short videos of professional work in the field. I'm gonna focus on MBCT for depression, since it has a very large base of different clinical trials in multiple cultures and it has a very strong evidence base. MBCT is the most effective treatment for depression there is, hard to start when your down though, it's group therapy and practice based. It guides you to better attitudes while your doing a practice and changing your brain, like regular meditation practice does for everybody. Your normal you just need some meditation and guidance, you'll be fine in weeks with some self honesty and work,because of the nature of the practice, it's mostly painless too. Any mindfulness practice is better than none for depression though, since your already negatively changing your brain and as you get older you get real good at bring yourself down. Even if you're older it works the same way, these brain areas we will work with, are very plastic and rapidly change. Because of your history, you'll want to stay in this wisdom practice, that many others do for many reasons and all are happy and strong, as you will be too.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Time for more housework, exercise, practice, thinking and insight, back soon to continue with some MBCT videoes for depression and other sources of help. Go to Youtube and search "MBCT" if you don't wanna wait for me. Don't think too far ahead here, you know nothing about this subject or you wouldn't be depressed, you will start to feel better right away, as soon as you start practicing. Every day you get happier and stronger on a conscious and subconscious level, though progress does not appear to be linear consciously, it is really is going on, even with the "bad" (not as relaxed as you figure you should be) sitting sessions.

    Time to get off my ass and practice what I preach, again and again and again...

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Some Training and Education Links
    Below are some links for basic free training, many are courses that are free online, if you can learn that way and stick to it (Use work, before, lunch, after shower, social pressure, etc)


    Some Evidence Based University and Private Mindfulness Training Programs (Many free online + video and audio instruction)
    Here are some references for some of the things cited earlier, medically based interventions using evidence based mindfulness practice. Many such programs are offered by universities to the public, check your area for an upcoming course. Watch some of the videos, it will do more for you than all the other TV you watch. If you go to any of these sites and others like them on the web, you'll understand why I don't bother to teach the basic practices here, they are already well covered by experts, have a look at the videos and links. DON'T FORGET TO ASK YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT THIS! HE/SHE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP TOO, perhaps your medical insurance will pay for it!


    A good place to start and lots of articles and free mindfulness courses and teaching podcasts Aa ton of resources this will keep you busy and steer you in the right direction, science based, buddhist roots.
    University of Wisconsin
    See this on the page for some podcasts
    For a complete list of mindfulness audio and video files see our Mindfulness Digital Library

    An example of a local mindfulness center, check the local colleges first and look around your area. There is some useful information here and you'll see what a professional mindfulness based program(s) look like and will know the evidence and what's involved. If you suffer from depression or have chronic pain issues, sign up in your area.

    UCLA MARC Meditation practices are found here and lots of basic instruction. A ton of information on the site

    A one hour video that's a great introduction to the subject from UCLA/MARC


    Rather than post a video on MBCT Depression sufferers go here and watch a few videoes!

    The Mindful Way Through Depression: Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness (Book & CD) Strongly recommended for depression

    Join four uniquely qualified experts as they explain why our usual attempts to “think” our way out of a bad mood or just “snap out of it” lead us deeper into the downward spiral. Through insightful lessons drawn from both Eastern meditative traditions and cognitive therapy, they demonstrate how to sidestep the mental habits that lead to despair, including rumination and self-blame, so you can face life’s challenges with greater resilience. Jon Kabat-Zinn narrates the accompanying CD of guided meditations, making this a complete package for anyone seeking to regain a sense of hope and well-being.
    If you can't find a local course and even if you can.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    It's more a work space for now, I'll post a better thread when this is done. Best treatment for depression, works great for pain and all kinds of suffering. People use pot for these things and should know that there are other things that can help too. They can smoke a lot of dope, but if they can sit with a clear head regularly, it works great. Older ya get the better it is, younger the harder it is to focus.

    I figure (from some evidence) that cannabis might aid the training even in younger adults, if ya can stay with a practice at work say, before, lunch etc.
    Read the health alert link above to see what I mean.

    What do you know about the endocannabinoid system? I can write some more on it, though it's been awhile since I read anything. Found when I was younger and training, that when I quit for a year or so, I seemed to get a net increase in memory capacity. Long as yer not too stoned ya can practice.

    I figure this is a good spot to work, someone might use the links, or contact me, either way, they should know that they can do this stuff too. One of the reasons I'm dropping my prescription is I don't really need it for the pain, mindfulness works better, but I do like to get high, just every now and then...

    I'm pretty good at this job and one of the reasons I was growing and smoking like trooper, was I stopped teaching when I retired and moved east. Building the Canada grows site triggered something subconscious and I was on my way automatically, gotta teach. Joining AA, not for the usual reasons though. Better as a peer, good place to start a public practice, good folks who need the help. I explain a lot on the thread, but like to have fun too! Practice my writing etc. The thread is now back on topic, cause I'm doing the mindfulness thing here, where it might be of some use. I troll the threads looking for those who might need some hope or help, makes me happy!
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Yep it is for now, I'm still thinking and working, on a word processor for now, soon as I get one on. This is more notes and sections for immediate help, for those who need it. It could have been done better, ya can't edit much here, most was written on the fly.

    Links are the most important part of this thread, most universities have these programs. Just watch a couple of videos. People who smoke pot can do this too. This is part of the message too, many medical users are in pain and suffer from depression. Who are they going to see about this? Not too many people have my experience in both worlds, pot and practice. Maybe people might not think it causes brain damage then!

    This kind of teaching is realy traffic directing. This is self help for normal people, I never see most, they go to a university site and they are off. If they can tie it to work, they will succeed. Very difficult to keep up with. I wanna see teachers, teach it at home room starting at grade 7 to 12. No teacher burnout then!

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    What it really does, is allow you to fully harness yer smarts, I ain't that smart either. You or me only have free will when we are mindful, otherwise something else is usually in the driver's seat. Practice allows us to see this and correct on the fly. If you are in touch with your body, you are aware of your "feelings" and know what is driving your agenda more consciously, where we can decide, what we want, free will
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2017

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