Marijuana and Religion

420SOS

Member
Cannabis certainly deserves a religion on its own. Some claim that according to the Bible it is ok to smoke some, other religions like Islam completely forbid it and religions like rastafarianism promote it. What do you think?

I also wonder about atheism, I I know it's not a religion but it's a belief system, I used to be one and I never met any who actually opposed they all supported it or couldn't care less

I'm editing an article on Muslim views regarding cannabis and thought about writing a blog post about cannabis and different religions around the world, including atheism
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Cannabis certainly deserves a religion on its own. Some claim that according to the Bible it is ok to smoke some, other religions like Islam completely forbid it and religions like rastafarianism promote it. What do you think?

I also wonder about atheism, I I know it's not a religion but it's a belief system, I used to be one and I never met any who actually opposed they all supported it or couldn't care less

I'm editing an article on Muslim views regarding cannabis and thought about writing a blog post about cannabis and different religions around the world, including atheism
atheism isn't a belief system, it is the lack of belief in gods

by analogy, you don't have some system of belief regarding Santa Claus, you just lack the belief that the Santa Claus story is true
I thought that was true as well and found this. It's an interesting read. I don't know that it changes my opinion about someone else's lack of opinion or interest but at least it illustrates the Christian Apologist's argument that Atheism is a belief system.

(the entire article is here if you'd like to read the entire thing: https://www.zachariastrust.org/the-scandanavian-sceptic-or-why-atheism-is-a-belief-system)

“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” my friend suddenly declared from across the coffee shop table. He took a sip of espresso and stared intently at me, clearly awaiting a response. I paused, my cinnamon roll halfway to my mouth, as I digested what he’d just said.

“Pardon?”

“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” he repeated. “I think it’s just a political conspiracy, designed to motivate other European citizens to work harder. All that talk of the best health care system, the highest standard of living, of tall and beautiful people. It sounds like a myth and I’m not buying it. I don’t believe in Sweden.”

I stared at my friend silently for a moment, allowing the sounds of the coffee shop to drift over us as I pondered. In the background, the radio began playing ‘Dancing Queen’ by Abba.

“What do you mean, ‘You don’t believe in Sweden’?” I finally replied. “That’s insane. If Sweden doesn’t exist, how do you explain IKEA furniture, or the Swedish chef on The Muppet Show, or what glues Norway to Finland? That’s a staggering claim! What’s your evidence?”

“What do you mean ‘evidence’?” he asked.

“Evidence,” I said. “You must have more than just a hunch but some pretty impressive evidence for your belief. I know Sweden only has 9.5 million inhabitants, but you can’t simply deny outright that it exists!”

“Aha,” said my friend sagely, “I see your confusion. You think that my denial of Sweden is a belief. But it’s simply a non-belief and so I don’t need to give evidence for it.”

“Come again?” I said.

“Yes,” he continued, warming to his theme, “I don’t have to provide evidence for my non-belief in Atlantis, El Dorado, or Shangri-La and nor do I need to do so for my non-belief in Sweden. You see I’m not making a claim of any kind—quite the opposite: I’m claiming nothing, I’m merely rejecting one of your beliefs—your belief in Sweden.”

That story was, of course, entirely fictional but the response that I described from my friend concerning his Scandinavian scepticism does have some real world parallels, especially in the way that many contemporary atheists describe their non-belief in God. As one atheist put it recently: “I don’t believe in God and I don’t need to justify this, just as I don’t need to give reasons for my non-belief in the tooth fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” The late New Atheist writer, Christopher Hitchens, put it even more succinctly when he wrote:

Our belief is not a belief.[1]

In recent weeks, the merry bunch of atheists who like to hang out on my Twitter feed have posted similar examples, my favourite being:

Atheism isn’t a claim. It’s just non-belief in the claim “There is a god”.

Since this idea is heard increasingly frequently, often when the atheist making it is asked to give reasons or evidence for their position, it’s worth taking the time to briefly explore six problems with the idea that atheism is not a claim or a belief—and that to argue otherwise is to place oneself on the same level as my Sweden-denying friend.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
There is a lot of good evidence for the existence Sweden which is what makes denying its existence irrational, what good evidence is there for any god in particular?

The above story is nothing more than an attempt to shift the burden of proof. The author had it right when he said "“I don’t believe in God and I don’t need to justify this, just as I don’t need to give reasons for my non-belief in the tooth fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.”

It apparent that the gods worshipped in our culture are in the same category as gods like Zeus, Thoth, and Marduk. Which is the same category as the Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

"Evidence" isn't the same as "Good Evidence" which tends to exclude the possibility of other explanations. The evidence available for gods is very similar to the evidence available for Santa. Kids really do get presents on Christmas, frequently what they ask for in their letters to Santa. Cookies and milk disappear, people hear Santa calling "Ho Ho Ho!" on Christmas Eve, tracks left by a team of reindeer of appear in the middle of freshly fallen snow fields. That isn't good evidence there is a Santa Claus because other more rational explanations also fit the evidence.

If you don't know the real reason presents appear under your tree then it doesn't make sense to make up story about a jolly man in a red suit that lives north of the North Pole and has a team of flying reindeer that pull his sleigh from house to house. That's the same level of rationality we are dealing with here: an invisible man in the sky knocked up a virgin who's son came back to life after being crucified so the magic ghost in your brain can live happily ever after in neverland if you believe it. A man who sat in a cave for years memorizing what the voice told him and then married a 9 year old girl is the Prophet of God, not an insane pedophile.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
btw, it is possible to make a claim that there is no god and the person making that claim would have the burden of proof, but that is very different from rejecting the claim that your god exists because the evidence is weak at best.
 

420SOS

Member
Cannabis certainly deserves a religion on its own. Some claim that according to the Bible it is ok to smoke some, other religions like Islam completely forbid it and religions like rastafarianism promote it. What do you think?

I also wonder about atheism, I I know it's not a religion but it's a belief system, I used to be one and I never met any who actually opposed they all supported it or couldn't care less

I'm editing an article on Muslim views regarding cannabis and thought about writing a blog post about cannabis and different religions around the world, including atheism
here's the article I mentioned check it out and let me know what you think
https://thcdetox.biz/blog/cannabis-in-islam/
 

420SOS

Member
I thought that was true as well and found this. It's an interesting read. I don't know that it changes my opinion about someone else's lack of opinion or interest but at least it illustrates the Christian Apologist's argument that Atheism is a belief system.

(the entire article is here if you'd like to read the entire thing: https://www.zachariastrust.org/the-scandanavian-sceptic-or-why-atheism-is-a-belief-system)

“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” my friend suddenly declared from across the coffee shop table. He took a sip of espresso and stared intently at me, clearly awaiting a response. I paused, my cinnamon roll halfway to my mouth, as I digested what he’d just said.

“Pardon?”

“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” he repeated. “I think it’s just a political conspiracy, designed to motivate other European citizens to work harder. All that talk of the best health care system, the highest standard of living, of tall and beautiful people. It sounds like a myth and I’m not buying it. I don’t believe in Sweden.”

I stared at my friend silently for a moment, allowing the sounds of the coffee shop to drift over us as I pondered. In the background, the radio began playing ‘Dancing Queen’ by Abba.

“What do you mean, ‘You don’t believe in Sweden’?” I finally replied. “That’s insane. If Sweden doesn’t exist, how do you explain IKEA furniture, or the Swedish chef on The Muppet Show, or what glues Norway to Finland? That’s a staggering claim! What’s your evidence?”

“What do you mean ‘evidence’?” he asked.

“Evidence,” I said. “You must have more than just a hunch but some pretty impressive evidence for your belief. I know Sweden only has 9.5 million inhabitants, but you can’t simply deny outright that it exists!”

“Aha,” said my friend sagely, “I see your confusion. You think that my denial of Sweden is a belief. But it’s simply a non-belief and so I don’t need to give evidence for it.”

“Come again?” I said.

“Yes,” he continued, warming to his theme, “I don’t have to provide evidence for my non-belief in Atlantis, El Dorado, or Shangri-La and nor do I need to do so for my non-belief in Sweden. You see I’m not making a claim of any kind—quite the opposite: I’m claiming nothing, I’m merely rejecting one of your beliefs—your belief in Sweden.”

That story was, of course, entirely fictional but the response that I described from my friend concerning his Scandinavian scepticism does have some real world parallels, especially in the way that many contemporary atheists describe their non-belief in God. As one atheist put it recently: “I don’t believe in God and I don’t need to justify this, just as I don’t need to give reasons for my non-belief in the tooth fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” The late New Atheist writer, Christopher Hitchens, put it even more succinctly when he wrote:

Our belief is not a belief.[1]

In recent weeks, the merry bunch of atheists who like to hang out on my Twitter feed have posted similar examples, my favourite being:

Atheism isn’t a claim. It’s just non-belief in the claim “There is a god”.

Since this idea is heard increasingly frequently, often when the atheist making it is asked to give reasons or evidence for their position, it’s worth taking the time to briefly explore six problems with the idea that atheism is not a claim or a belief—and that to argue otherwise is to place oneself on the same level as my Sweden-denying friend.
What is Sweden? :grin::D cool story curious
 

420SOS

Member
btw, it is possible to make a claim that there is no god and the person making that claim would have the burden of proof, but that is very different from rejecting the claim that your god exists because the evidence is weak at best.
Are both considered atheistic views?
 

420SOS

Member
There is a lot of good evidence for the existence Sweden which is what makes denying its existence irrational, what good evidence is there for any god in particular?

The above story is nothing more than an attempt to shift the burden of proof. The author had it right when he said "“I don’t believe in God and I don’t need to justify this, just as I don’t need to give reasons for my non-belief in the tooth fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.”

It apparent that the gods worshipped in our culture are in the same category as gods like Zeus, Thoth, and Marduk. Which is the same category as the Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

"Evidence" isn't the same as "Good Evidence" which tends to exclude the possibility of other explanations. The evidence available for gods is very similar to the evidence available for Santa. Kids really do get presents on Christmas, frequently what they ask for in their letters to Santa. Cookies and milk disappear, people hear Santa calling "Ho Ho Ho!" on Christmas Eve, tracks left by a team of reindeer of appear in the middle of freshly fallen snow fields. That isn't good evidence there is a Santa Claus because other more rational explanations also fit the evidence.

If you don't know the real reason presents appear under your tree then it doesn't make sense to make up story about a jolly man in a red suit that lives north of the North Pole and has a team of flying reindeer that pull his sleigh from house to house. That's the same level of rationality we are dealing with here: an invisible man in the sky knocked up a virgin who's son came back to life after being crucified so the magic ghost in your brain can live happily ever after in neverland if you believe it. A man who sat in a cave for years memorizing what the voice told him and then married a 9 year old girl is the Prophet of God, not an insane pedophile.
The magic ghost in your brain, the soul? Don't we have one?
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
The magic ghost in your brain, the soul? Don't we have one?
Physicists have spent the last few hundred years exploring the nature of reality and it doesn't seem to be possible. The bar to demonstrate the possibility of a soul or some external consciousness that controls the brain is very high, probably the highest bar currently in existence. This article lays out the case https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2011/05/23/physics-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/
 

420SOS

Member
Cannabis a religion for itself? Isn't that like saying make a religion about the pancake instead of the cook?
Who cares about the cook? Give me the pancake! Haha jk, I understand your point, however I think there's already a cannabis religion and I'm not sure if they worship anything else other than the plant
 

420SOS

Member
Physicists have spent the last few hundred years exploring the nature of reality and it doesn't seem to be possible. The bar to demonstrate the possibility of a soul or some external consciousness that controls the brain is very high, probably the highest bar currently in existence. This article lays out the case https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2011/05/23/physics-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/
That interesting. Willd definitely have a look, thx
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
You should consider calling into the Atheist Experience tomorrow and try to talk to them, whether about the Cannabis issue or something else. They prioritize theistic callers and might want talk to someone like yourself who used to be an atheist. Matt Dillahunty is a former Christian minister, now professional atheist.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAtheistExperience

I like this one where a couple of Christian high school students are challenged by their apologetics teacher to get on the air for extra credit. They talk about morality and the bible which is at the root of your Cannabis question.
 

420SOS

Member
You should consider calling into the Atheist Experience tomorrow and try to talk to them, whether about the Cannabis issue or something else. They prioritize theistic callers and might want talk to someone like yourself who used to be an atheist. Matt Dillahunty is a former Christian minister, now professional atheist.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAtheistExperience

I like this one where a couple of Christian high school students are challenged by their apologetics teacher to get on the air for extra credit. They talk about morality and the bible which is at the root of your Cannabis question.
Man that's awesome info, appreciate it
 

New Age United

Well-Known Member
Physicists have spent the last few hundred years exploring the nature of reality and it doesn't seem to be possible. The bar to demonstrate the possibility of a soul or some external consciousness that controls the brain is very high, probably the highest bar currently in existence. This article lays out the case https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2011/05/23/physics-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/
The soul is emotional energy and like all energy it has mass, the brain is like a composer and your thoughts and emotions are lyrics and music, but you are not your mortal soul, you are Immortal Spirit, Awareness, you are not form you are formless, the empty Space that allows all things to exist, nothingness, how can you destroy nothing.
 

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
Who cares about the cook? Give me the pancake! Haha jk, I understand your point, however I think there's already a cannabis religion and I'm not sure if they worship anything else other than the plant
I’m pretty sure that was based on trying to find a loop hole to smoke legally
 

too larry

Well-Known Member
I'm in the Man Creates Gods in His Own Image camp. (ever notice how all the Greek Gods are Greek?) Since we've had pre-knowledge of death, we have been making up stories to make us sleep better at night. Gods and Religions are important to humans, or we wouldn't have so many of them.

I loosely follow the Creek tradition, even though I'm 98.5% western European. I find it suits my needs. And I do use weed for my burnt offerings.
 
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