Making the switch from Soil to DWC!

G

Gimiik

Active Member
Hi everybody!!
I'm new to these forums and seeking some help!

Alright so I think I've decided how I want to setup my DWC... It's going to be a simplified rDWC system.

I want to use a 2x4 grow tent and only run a single, It sounds like running a single plant is the way to go in such a small space. I plan to create a scrog due to height limitations in the 2x4 and because of this, doing anything with the bucket will be a hassle, like topping off or changing the reservoir. To combat this I stumbled upon a sort of rDWC setup involving two buckets, one being the grow bucket and the other being a reservoir.
Here is a picture of what I want to create:



I want to put the grow bucket in the tent obviously then leave the reservoir bucket outside the tent for easy access which should be possible by running the connector pipe through one of the bottom vents on the tent.

Due to space limitations I'm not sure if I can fit an exhaust fan to help with heat issues so because of this I plan to run two of my 288 LM301B Quantum Boards seeing how they produce very little heat and I can mount the drivers outside the tent as well. Because I only want to run one plant I think I'm going to make the scrog 2-2.5ft x 1.5 which the QBs would be perfect for as their footprint is really only effective in a 1x1ft space so two QBs should be enough. Although, depending on how much space my fans/filter takes up I may be able to expand the size of the scrog and throw in an additional QB which would be ideal of course, more light the better.

Below is a PAR map of the QBs in an open space -- being that I'm using a reflective tent the numbers will be slightly higher. Two QBs @ 12" should be plenty of light for one plant.



I do have some general questions about how this setup is supposed to work...
1) Do I need a water pump to be circulating the nutrients I add into the reservoir to the grow bucket? Or do I just simply making my adjustments in the reservoir bucket and wait for them to passively mix in with the water in the grow bucket?

2) Do i need to include an air stone in the reservoir bucket as well the grow bucket? Or only the grow bucket?
- Would there be added benefits of running air stones in both buckets or would the dissolved oxygen in the reservoir bucket dissipate before reaching the grow bucket?

For Nutrients, I plan on using Advanced Nutrients for their PH Perfect. I still need to decide on the 3-Part vs the 2-Part + any extra additives from them. Might add in Rhino Skin for some silica. As well as Z7 and HydroGuard + Calmag.

If anybody could shed some light on the two questions I posed I would be forever grateful. I've been trying to read and research all I can about all this hydro stuff but can't seem to get a clear answer!

Thanks all. Hope everyone had a fun 4.20!
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Hi everybody!!
I'm new to these forums and seeking some help!

Alright so I think I've decided how I want to setup my DWC... It's going to be a simplified rDWC system.

I want to use a 2x4 grow tent and only run a single, It sounds like running a single plant is the way to go in such a small space. I plan to create a scrog due to height limitations in the 2x4 and because of this, doing anything with the bucket will be a hassle, like topping off or changing the reservoir. To combat this I stumbled upon a sort of rDWC setup involving two buckets, one being the grow bucket and the other being a reservoir.
Here is a picture of what I want to create:



I want to put the grow bucket in the tent obviously then leave the reservoir bucket outside the tent for easy access which should be possible by running the connector pipe through one of the bottom vents on the tent.

Due to space limitations I'm not sure if I can fit an exhaust fan to help with heat issues so because of this I plan to run two of my 288 LM301B Quantum Boards seeing how they produce very little heat and I can mount the drivers outside the tent as well. Because I only want to run one plant I think I'm going to make the scrog 2-2.5ft x 1.5 which the QBs would be perfect for as their footprint is really only effective in a 1x1ft space so two QBs should be enough. Although, depending on how much space my fans/filter takes up I may be able to expand the size of the scrog and throw in an additional QB which would be ideal of course, more light the better.

Below is a PAR map of the QBs in an open space -- being that I'm using a reflective tent the numbers will be slightly higher. Two QBs @ 12" should be plenty of light for one plant.



I do have some general questions about how this setup is supposed to work...
1) Do I need a water pump to be circulating the nutrients I add into the reservoir to the grow bucket? Or do I just simply making my adjustments in the reservoir bucket and wait for them to passively mix in with the water in the grow bucket?

2) Do i need to include an air stone in the reservoir bucket as well the grow bucket? Or only the grow bucket?
- Would there be added benefits of running air stones in both buckets or would the dissolved oxygen in the reservoir bucket dissipate before reaching the grow bucket?

For Nutrients, I plan on using Advanced Nutrients for their PH Perfect. I still need to decide on the 3-Part vs the 2-Part + any extra additives from them. Might add in Rhino Skin for some silica. As well as Z7 and HydroGuard + Calmag.

If anybody could shed some light on the two questions I posed I would be forever grateful. I've been trying to read and research all I can about all this hydro stuff but can't seem to get a clear answer!

Thanks all. Hope everyone had a fun 4.20!
Click to expand...
The R stands for recirculating. Not very doable without a waterpump! You're gonna run in to issues with heat though, man.
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
Airwalker16 said:
The R stands for recirculating. Not very doable without a waterpump! You're gonna run in to issues with heat though, man.
Click to expand...
Haha yeah I knew a pump is necessary to circulate the water in larger rdwc systems with 2+ grow buckets but I wasn't sure if a pump was necessary in the two bucket system I'm trying to make due to the short distance between the buckets. Will I need to build a return pipe to prevent the grow bucket from overflowing or can I use a single pvc pipe? If that makes sense.

pulpoinspace said:
i agree i think you need an exhaust either way!
Click to expand...
Are you guys worried about the air temps or the water temps? If I run a chiller I would probably be okay with water temp.

Thanks for the timely response btw!!
 
pulpoinspace

pulpoinspace

Well-Known Member
the air temp. not sure how hot youll be running the QBs but if you run them at an appropriate wattage that tent is gonna get really hot without an exhaust. a watt is a watt. 400w of LED will heat up the tent just as much as 400w of HID.

if i leave my LEDs on in my tent without the exhaust it gets up to 100F within a few minutes.

i'd think you'd need a chiller as well as an exhaust
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
pulpoinspace said:
the air temp. not sure how hot youll be running the QBs but if you run them at an appropriate wattage that tent is gonna get really hot without an exhaust. a watt is a watt. 400w of LED will heat up the tent just as much as 400w of HID.
Click to expand...
I don't think that is entirely true, correct me if I'm wrong but with HIDs a good chunk of the energy that is drawn from the wall is wasted in the form of heat whereas LEDs are much more efficient and produce less heat; more energy is spent on producing light rather than heat. What QBs are you running? I had (4) 288.2 qbs @ 135w each + (2) 150w HPS lights in my 4x4 and it never got above 84. Granted there is more cubic feet of air in a 4x4 than a 2x4 so I might run into heat issues, Idk yet. However, with QBs it's prolly safe to say that 85%+ of the heat generated comes from the drivers and not the actual light source which is great because I can leave the drivers outside the tent and simply run a fan over them blowing the hot air elsewhere.

The drivers I have can run @135w max but they are more efficient at lower wattage. So with two boards the max is 270w or 405w if I am able to add in a third.
I already have an exhaust fan but its 6" and fucking massive so idk if it'll fit in the tent. If I have the space I will most definitely add it in so I can exhaust. I just don't know well I'll be able to fit all the equipment yet.
 
pulpoinspace

pulpoinspace

Well-Known Member
remote mounting the drivers definitely helps a lot. I use qb 96elite, and i've used cobs, blurples, and HID lighting in the past. the point i'm trying to make though is that it doesn't really matter which qbs or light source you'll use. 1 watt generates like 3.5btus no matter where that watt comes from.

what i recommend you do is set up your lights and your tent and then leave it on for an hour and monitor the temps. this is what i've done with every tent/light i've ever had and i've never been in a scenario where exhaust was unnecessary.

i have a 4x2 with 300w in it that i use for veg. it is small, so i keep the fan on top of the tent, sucking air out through a filter that is mounted inside the tent. this way the fan doesnt need to be inside the tent and saves some space!
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
Yeah I see the point you're trying to make. I like the idea of leaving the fan outside the tent to save space I just hope the noise doesn't become an issue. Although idk how much having it inside the tent cuts down on the noise level to begin with haha.

As for the water pump. What size would you go with for a 10gal system? Will I need a return pipe to prevent the grow bucket from overflowing or will a single pvc pipe work?
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
Agreed you need an exhaust fan even if its some rudimentary jimmy rig with duct tape and bubblegum not only for heat issues but to bring fresh air into the tent.

Chiller will depend on your water temps, fill up your bucket put it in your tent and let it sit over night with the light on then measure the temp of the water, shoot for 68F. This will roughly give you worse case as once you add an epi bucket outside the tent and connect it the influence of the the heat from the light will be reduced. You will likely not get to 68F passively. Chiller can be costly so you could look into the option of a peltier water cooler. Its less efficient but in such a small application i think might save ya some money and still work.

Air stone in both buckets will benefit you increasing the o2 exchange rate (i feel if you have surface area of water to aerate then do it).

I prefer a flow rate of about 10x your total volume of water. So if its 2-5gal pails you will have roughly 8 gal of water in it then a 80gph pump should serve you well.

You will need a return and supply if you are doing RDWC. because you are running 2 buckets with a low GPH pump 1" would be sufficient. The more GPH you run the bigger the piping you will need.

If you don't have then pick up a PH, and tds meter. These are a must in DWC/RDWC

I would go simple with the nutes. 2 or 3 part nutes and cal-mag is good to have on hand but personally i don't add unless i see a deficiency.You will need PH Down and always good to have some PH Up on hand.

Check you local water report first so you will know if you need RO or not.

Personally i don't like unileaks so I would suggest proper bulkhead fittings.

I'm not sure i would do a single bucket with an epi but i guess its better than without an epi. Just quite a bit of extra cost for a single bucket.

I'm sure other's will add.

Good Luck!
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
Hi Aqua man! Thanks for the thorough response.

I'm looking into ways to mount my fan outside my tent so the only thing inside of it as for the exhaust system would be the carbon filter saving on space.

I will probably need to lookup some DIY chillers as I live in Arizona and it can get pretty warm to say the least -- I will most likely have to wait until after summer as I won't be able to get the water temps to 68 without a hefty chiller.

As far as air stones, I was reading into water falls and I think I'm going to go that route. Put a submersible pump in the reservoir and run a 1/4" supply line to the top of the grow bucket and a 1" return line to prevent the grow bucket from over flowing. Does that sound right? I plan on coupling air stones with a waterfall to maximize the oxygen exchange at the surface.

Thank you for pointing me in a direction in regards to water pumps. I didn't know what the "Rule of Thumb" is when it comes to pumps but the 10x total volume sounds good to me.

I plan on investing on a quality pH meter + ppm meter. Currently I have one of those shit yellow ones that gives inaccurate readings so I'm going to bite the bullet and get a nice one. I plan on using RO water to make things easier on me since this is my first hydro grow. Less variables the better imo. That's also the reason I'm starting on such a small system. I don't want to overload myself with 4+ plants on my first go.

Lastly, what do you mean by an epi? If you're talking about having a reservoir I just figured it would be easy to do an rdwc with scrog as opposed to a traditional dwc. Easier access to make adjusts haha. Plus I think it would be fun little project to build and see to the end.

I appreciate everyone's input and hope to keep the discussion going! Does anybody have experience running a waterfall in their setups?
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Hi Aqua man! Thanks for the thorough response.

I'm looking into ways to mount my fan outside my tent so the only thing inside of it as for the exhaust system would be the carbon filter saving on space.

I will probably need to lookup some DIY chillers as I live in Arizona and it can get pretty warm to say the least -- I will most likely have to wait until after summer as I won't be able to get the water temps to 68 without a hefty chiller.

As far as air stones, I was reading into water falls and I think I'm going to go that route. Put a submersible pump in the reservoir and run a 1/4" supply line to the top of the grow bucket and a 1" return line to prevent the grow bucket from over flowing. Does that sound right? I plan on coupling air stones with a waterfall to maximize the oxygen exchange at the surface.

Thank you for pointing me in a direction in regards to water pumps. I didn't know what the "Rule of Thumb" is when it comes to pumps but the 10x total volume sounds good to me.

I plan on investing on a quality pH meter + ppm meter. Currently I have one of those shit yellow ones that gives inaccurate readings so I'm going to bite the bullet and get a nice one. I plan on using RO water to make things easier on me since this is my first hydro grow. Less variables the better imo. That's also the reason I'm starting on such a small system. I don't want to overload myself with 4+ plants on my first go.

Lastly, what do you mean by an epi? If you're talking about having a reservoir I just figured it would be easy to do an rdwc with scrog as opposed to a traditional dwc. Easier access to make adjusts haha. Plus I think it would be fun little project to build and see to the end.

I appreciate everyone's input and hope to keep the discussion going! Does anybody have experience running a waterfall in their setups?
Click to expand...
Yeah i mean Res when i say epi. Nothing wrong with doing a single site RDWC it just costs a fair bit more than DWC. The initial setup cost per bucket generally goes down as you add more is all. Also the equipment needs will change as you increase in size so if you do decide to upgrade you could be looking at all new equipment. Just food for thought you may want to build with that in mind.

Happy growing
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
Aqua Man said:
Yeah i mean Res when i say epi. Nothing wrong with doing a single site RDWC it just costs a fair bit more than DWC. The initial setup cost per bucket generally goes down as you add more is all. Also the equipment needs will change as you increase in size so if you do decide to upgrade you could be looking at all new equipment. Just food for thought you may want to build with that in mind.

Happy growing
Click to expand...
Good point. Might want to invest in an adjustable air and water pump so I can scale the grow in the future. Appreciate the advice.
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Hi Aqua man! Thanks for the thorough response.

I'm looking into ways to mount my fan outside my tent so the only thing inside of it as for the exhaust system would be the carbon filter saving on space.

I will probably need to lookup some DIY chillers as I live in Arizona and it can get pretty warm to say the least -- I will most likely have to wait until after summer as I won't be able to get the water temps to 68 without a hefty chiller.

As far as air stones, I was reading into water falls and I think I'm going to go that route. Put a submersible pump in the reservoir and run a 1/4" supply line to the top of the grow bucket and a 1" return line to prevent the grow bucket from over flowing. Does that sound right? I plan on coupling air stones with a waterfall to maximize the oxygen exchange at the surface.

Thank you for pointing me in a direction in regards to water pumps. I didn't know what the "Rule of Thumb" is when it comes to pumps but the 10x total volume sounds good to me.

I plan on investing on a quality pH meter + ppm meter. Currently I have one of those shit yellow ones that gives inaccurate readings so I'm going to bite the bullet and get a nice one. I plan on using RO water to make things easier on me since this is my first hydro grow. Less variables the better imo. That's also the reason I'm starting on such a small system. I don't want to overload myself with 4+ plants on my first go.

Lastly, what do you mean by an epi? If you're talking about having a reservoir I just figured it would be easy to do an rdwc with scrog as opposed to a traditional dwc. Easier access to make adjusts haha. Plus I think it would be fun little project to build and see to the end.

I appreciate everyone's input and hope to keep the discussion going! Does anybody have experience running a waterfall in their setups?
Click to expand...
1.5" returns AT LEAST. 2" is even safer.
As for the waterfalls, manifold should be 3/4 and split off to 1/2" right at each bucket for even pressure.
Also, use an Inline Pump and plumb a 1" line from the bottom front of your res into it, and up to your manifold. Cuts back on heating the water with a submersible.
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
Airwalker16 said:
1.5" returns AT LEAST. 2" is even safer.
As for the waterfalls, manifold should be 3/4 and split off to 1/2" right at each bucket for even pressure.
Also, use an Inline Pump and plumb a 1" line from the bottom front of your res into it, and up to your manifold. Cuts back on heating the water with a submersible.
Click to expand...
Agree bigger is better for returns but minimums should be based off the GPH with a safety margin. I run 2" on a 4 bucket system with 210GPH inline pump but I could have easily went with 1.5" What size pump are you advising that would require a 1.5"-2" return? I don't think he needs a manifold for 1 bucket could probably just go from bottom of res to pump and straight to his bucket no? What would your recommend turnover rate for a waterfall be? I have used them in the past but not for my hydro grows per se.
 
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G

Gimiik

Active Member
Ya I don't think I would need a manifold and could instead pump directly to grow bucket but I do like the idea of using an inline pump versus a submersible to help cut back on heat issues. In a previous post it was recommended I use an 80gpm pump because its such a small setup.. I will probably stick with the 1.5-2" return because why not but what size supply line will I need? I apologize I know nothing of plumbing or hydrodynamics I'm learning as I go haha
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Ya I don't think I would need a manifold and could instead pump directly to grow bucket but I do like the idea of using an inline pump versus a submersible to help cut back on heat issues. In a previous post it was recommended I use an 80gpm pump because its such a small setup.. I will probably stick with the 1.5-2" return because why not but what size supply line will I need? I apologize I know nothing of plumbing or hydrodynamics I'm learning as I go haha
Click to expand...
You may want a bigger pump going with a waterfall and not using air stones... Best to let the waterfall guys give ya that info. Going with a bigger return is a good idea especially if you want to upsize later on.
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
Oh I plan on running both an air stone and waterfall because it should give a nice entourage effect no? Plus, I'm limited in my growing space as I'm in an apartment so I most likely won't be upgrading to a system much larger than 2-3 buckets at most but for the meantime I'm sticking with a single grow bucket. A smaller pump should be just fine although I'm having trouble finding an 80gph inline pump. I can't find inline pumps on amazon b/c everything I find online is submersible. I suppose I could still mount outside the reservoir but an inline would be more convenient. Any suggestions on what brands to go for?
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Oh I plan on running both an air stone and waterfall because it should give a nice entourage effect no? Plus, I'm limited in my growing space as I'm in an apartment so I most likely won't be upgrading to a system much larger than 2-3 buckets at most but for the meantime I'm sticking with a single grow bucket. A smaller pump should be just fine although I'm having trouble finding an 80gph inline pump. I can't find inline pumps on amazon b/c everything I find online is submersible. I suppose I could still mount outside the reservoir but an inline would be more convenient. Any suggestions on what brands to go for?
Click to expand...
To be honest i'm confused as hell as to how you would run a waterfall in a single bucket with res that would be any different than a regular RDWC with one bucket. I mean basically you would just put the plant into to your res bucket and call it a waterfall and have your site bucket outside??? IDK maybe again i would wait for the waterfall guys to respond to that. If you are going 1.5-2" going up a pump size wont hurt just better circulation and as long as that doesn't beat your root to shit you are good. Since you were looking on amazon here is a link to a decent small inline pump that easily would work well with 1.5-2" returns. https://www.amazon.ca/Cobalt-Aquatics-EXT-In-Line-Pump/dp/B00D5WH6FW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3GWOTVTET9UZH&keywords=inline+pumps+water&qid=1556165031&s=gateway&sprefix=inline+pump,aps,178&sr=8-1
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Decent pump, for 1 bucket I guess.

I didn't realize you were doing single site.
But it's still way smart to recirculate between a res and one bucket over stagnant bucket with air stones.

P.s. you won't need air stones. Your water will reach max Dissolved Oxygen from the Waterfall alone. Adding air pump just brings in unnecessary heat.
 
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