Lowering water pH with vitamin C!?!?

So I was doing some experiments with ways of lowering my waters pH since an ro system will not have a real impact on my pH as explained here IS PH OF RO PERMEATE REALLY LOWER THAN THE FEED-WATER PH?. It doesn't make much sense to me but it was what the guy at the local water store was tellin me about and I found it on the web so nobody could do a, oh yes it does. So back to my test, I added a small amount of vitamin c to my water with a pH of 8.1... Instantly a pH of 6.3 was produced. I am keeping my sample covered and stored for a bit (a day at least) to see how stable this is. Has anyone ever tried this Am I waisting my time What is the meaning of life seriously though will this actually work out, and is anyone really interested enough so for me to bother keeping this thread going

Velly interesting. Please let us know what ou learn...B

Well 24 hours into this little experiment and the pH is still 6.3 not surprising though when I change the pH for my fish it usually works for a day or two due to the water "memory" and then slowly climbs. This is the worst part the waiting game, hopefully it will not be in vein. One other thing that I noticed is there are tiny tiny particles in the solution. I don't think that it will do anything since I am not turning it into mist and just using a flood and drain system.

1985
Im dyin to find out....did it work and for how long??
love
gix

So maybe I'm getting a little bit over bearing on this whole deal but just an update 36 hours in still a steady pH. The only thing that may be a factor with this is how much the tds is messed up by this whole deal.

Well, I think vitamin C is ascorbic acid, and any acid has a pH of less than 7.

The question is, will something in that vitamin C hurt your plant? Or maybe not kill her, but cause her to grow slowly, or not at all, or yield less than she could.

I'll stick to the tried and true, and I'll be high.


HTH

I am a bit worried about everything that you have just written about but I'm not going to let it stop me. I mean the guys that came up with the ideas for hydroponics and aeroponics where probably thought to be nuts. I mean come on growing without soil?!?!?! But we all know much better than that. So back to my little mad scientist situation. The pH is still stable at 48 hours now the real test begins to see if it stays that way. If this solution works i will use it in my system and keep a journal about my findings.

I found this little bit of info on the web that hopefully others will find interesting as well Vitamin C Is Essential For Plant Growth

are you simply using vitamin c tablets, and disolving them in the water???? this is a very interesting experiment keep us posted .......

ThatGuy1985 said:

So I was doing some experiments with ways of lowering my waters pH since an ro system will not have a real impact on my pH as explained here IS PH OF RO PERMEATE REALLY LOWER THAN THE FEED-WATER PH?. It doesn't make much sense to me but it was what the guy at the local water store was tellin me about and I found it on the web so nobody could do a, oh yes it does. So back to my test, I added a small amount of vitamin c to my water with a pH of 8.1... Instantly a pH of 6.3 was produced. I am keeping my sample covered and stored for a bit (a day at least) to see how stable this is. Has anyone ever tried this Am I waisting my time What is the meaning of life seriously though will this actually work out, and is anyone really interested enough so for me to bother keeping this thread going

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Ok, so what you're dealing with is a common issue for aquarists and it's called alkalinity. Alkalinity refers to the water's ability to resist shift in pH, and you should expect a bounce. What I used to do for my South American fishes was filter through peat moss. Aquarists don't like the brownish color water created, but the fish LOVE it, and it's a safe way of changing the buffering capacity of the water. Dropping a vitamin C pill in the water isn't going to do what you want it to do. Vinegar would be one way, but again, you're going to have bounce especially if the water is very hard (also measured as alkalinity, and there are a couple of ways this is measured). CO2 content (carbon dioxide) is not the only measure of or means by which to manipulate pH (it is used to lower, or acidify).

If you look to the aquarium world you will find an amazing amount of information on how to manipulate water parameters.

RO water, reverse osmosis, usually removes a good amount of the mineral content of water and the only way I know of to get more pure is to go with distilled water. Both tend have very low alkalinity (buffering or pH shift resistance). Leaving your test sample for a day does absolutely NOTHING, the reagent has been used up and that's it. Test again to see true results.

We already addressed this little tidbit maybe I didn't spell it out but I breed live bearers and tetras. the live bearers that I have love my alkali water and make lots and lots of babies. My tetras however need peat for their tank and get distilled water and peat in their breeding tank. I am testing the stability we are on day 2 going on to three and it'll probably be about five to six days before I really know if this is worth even fallowing through with. Besides a container of vitamin c crystals is about $15 and a little bit goes a long long way while pH down products can be very pricey and in most cases need to be added very often and in larger quantities.

1985
you are right about the hydroponic stuff... keep on trying babe you never know what you might discover.. Im certainly interested in how you get on. Im never keen on adding chemicals to my tank but then, I dont really know much about hydro... im still learning ALL about it. Great experiment in my eyes.
love
gix
ps seamaiden....COOL BIKE..

ThatGuy1985 said:

We already addressed this little tidbit maybe I didn't spell it out but I breed live bearers and tetras. the live bearers that I have love my alkali water and make lots and lots of babies. My tetras however need peat for their tank and get distilled water and peat in their breeding tank. I am testing the stability we are on day 2 going on to three and it'll probably be about five to six days before I really know if this is worth even fallowing through with. Besides a container of vitamin c crystals is about $15 and a little bit goes a long long way while pH down products can be very pricey and in most cases need to be added very often and in larger quantities.

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2ml of 81% phosphoric acid ph down puts 15litres of water at ph7 down to ph5.5 and costs £1.99 for 250ml, so I would have to disagree with your cost analysis.

Woomeister said:

2ml of 81% phosphoric acid ph down puts 15litres of water at ph7 down to ph5.5 and costs £1.99 for 250ml, so I would have to disagree with your cost analysis.

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Yeah that is cheap but I've also heard that harsh acids like hydrochloric and phosphoric acids can bind to your nutes and that's bad bad bad in my book

ThatGuy1985 said:

Yeah that is cheap but I've also heard that harsh acids like hydrochloric and phosphoric acids can bind to your nutes and that's bad bad bad in my book

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Well my plants have always been fine and I haved used the same brand of ph down solution for over 10 years

Well I never knew I always thought it was no good I guess you learn something new each day. I better stop before i learn something else i don't know if i can handle all of this learning in one day lol jk.

ThatGuy1985 said:

We already addressed this little tidbit maybe I didn't spell it out but I breed live bearers and tetras. the live bearers that I have love my alkali water and make lots and lots of babies. My tetras however need peat for their tank and get distilled water and peat in their breeding tank. I am testing the stability we are on day 2 going on to three and it'll probably be about five to six days before I really know if this is worth even fallowing through with. Besides a container of vitamin c crystals is about $15 and a little bit goes a long long way while pH down products can be very pricey and in most cases need to be added very often and in larger quantities.

Click to expand...

Yes, livebearers do indeed love base or alkaline water. Do you notice a pH bounce when using distilled water for the tetras (are you breeding New World or African tetras?).

My main point was that there are tricks to this that don't require crazy or expensive treatments (such as pH Down, which I HATE, because it allows that bounce and people don't understand how quickly that'll kill their fish). Also, if you're relying on reading that test you took days ago to give you an accurate reading, it's not going to just change on its own. You need to retest.

I worked the aquatic import/export trade after I got started on the miniature reef habit (had to pay for coral somehow, right?) for quite a few years, so I'm a bit of a fish geek.

I think your best bet is to push the water through some peat. Use an old canister filter, Fluval or similar (Eheims are spendy). That should bring the pH down safely and without the bounce back up.

IF you can find the formulation for it, then I suggest trying a place like The Chemistry Store.com - Serving The Hobbyist, Student, School and Industry and picking up some acid compounds and mix your own pH down. Just like sodium thiosulfate (dechlorinates your water), the cost is REALLY jacked up for a very dilute solution. For instance, that sodium thiosulfate that's already mixed into a solution and sometimes has other stuff (like StressCoat) mixed in is going to cost you several dollars for a little bitty bottle of the stuff, whereas you could also buy a 2lb. jar of Na2O3S2 crystals for FIVE BUCKS. That's a HELL of a savings there, and you're working with concentrate, a little dab'll do ya.

Oh yeah, if you DO decide to try it, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)!

Found H3PO4 here: DGR Industrial Products, Inc. :: Generic Chemicals :: Phosphoric Acid, 85%, 500ml

I retested my sample every time I posted. I wouldn't expect any change if i didn't. I made a gallon of my little solution with vit c. I haven't had a chance to test yet today too much work and house life going on to take some time to relax and do my thing so i will update in detail a bit later tonight

The fish that I breed are new world tetras, flame tetras to be exact (coincidence I think not) with the distilled water i do notice a bounce but the water is buffered with peat and the bounce isn't as pronounced going from about 5.6 to 6.0 in a few days if a don't keep a close eye on it.

Alright back to what were where here for, not to offend you seamaiden I could go on for days about my little friends. The solution is still holding a steady pH of 6.3 I really can't believe it to tell you the honest truth. I am going to mix up a larger batch and use it to water my normal house plants and if it doesn't kill my dieing plants, that i am putting outside since the weather broke, I will use it in a system just as long as the pH holds for 2 more days in my jug o' vit c. Think this thread is going to come to an end though unless anyone has any more questions that they would like to address I'd be more than happy to answer any of them. Keep an eye out for my grow journal I'll post again in this forum under the same title of lowering pH with vitamin c to let you know when i get it under way......

oh and thanks for the links seamaiden it's always good to find a good backup plan and you can always send me a private message if you wanna chat about our little under the sea friends lol