lowering overall yield in veg

FLoJo

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
ok so me and my buddy were having a little discussion today.

we both came to the conclusion that stress, nute burn, over and under watering etc. during flowering will greatly reduce overall yield.

he says that all of these things can be overcome, with minimal loss, if the plants are "rehabbed" in veg, and you start the flowering period when the plants become healthy again. (again this is with "minimal loss" some loss is agreed"

my stance is that some things such as over and under watering can be overcome but if you have severe ph problems and nute burn in veg, the plants will yield considerably less than a plant whos life was stress free through veg, even if put into flowering when healthy again.

now we are talking that the stressed plant is put in at the same size as a stress free plant because obviously a stress free plant would have had the chance to get larger while the other plant would have been smaller and struggling.

so what do you guys think? now keep in mind that of course "some" loss will occur but we are talking about a noticeable and very measurable change..

let the debate begin!

FLo
 
FLoJo

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
nobody has any data or had any experiences?? or at least an opinion loosely based on fact lol?
 
jesus420

jesus420

Well-Known Member
i think issues early on in veg, if your plant recovers, will add growing time (for the plant to heal) but will have little to no outcome on the final yield if you get a full recovery. now if you burn up leaves, have root rot, or something that removes the plants ability to produce buds later on then yes it will lower yield, but i think general stress early on is okay.

but this is my first grow so wtf do i know.
 
FLoJo

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
well thanks for your imput, and i do agree with you to an extent, but if root rot is caught early it can be treated with h202, or snip off the infected roots and let the baby grow some new ones. burning up leaves from over nute, yea you gotta rehab em till you get new growth. these issues in flower tho can be disastrous to your yield, and is little to no recovery.

good points.

what do some other peeps think? i know there are some experienced growers who have some points to add.. lets hear em!
 
G

gristlegrower

Active Member
It's kind of obvious isn't it? You give a plant the perfect conditions and you'll have the best yield. Short of that, you'll have less. As the previous poster had mentioned, nute lockout and water stress usually result in root rot. Root rot stunts growth. Growth reduction = diminished yield.
 
FLoJo

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
gristlegrower said:
It's kind of obvious isn't it? You give a plant the perfect conditions and you'll have the best yield. Short of that, you'll have less. As the previous poster had mentioned, nute lockout and water stress usually result in root rot. Root rot stunts growth. Growth reduction = diminished yield.
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yea it is obvious that if you give a plant the perfect conditions it will grow to its full potential thats not what is being debated here. short of that yes you will have less but the question is how much does it really matter? can a plant be brought back to its full genetic potential?

i have personally rehabilitated a clone that was mangy and deformed, near dead from no water, and left in darkness for about 4 days, it came out to be one of the best smokes ive ever had. yield was pretty good as well.

and yes there are things that stunt growth, and in flower may never recover but can be cured in veg.. that is the question is HOW MUCH of a difference is there really if you give the plants exactly what it needs? can you reach 98 percent of its potential in flower? 90 percent? 85? obviously you cant get 100 percent but that is what the debate is all about :roll:
 
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drgr33n

Active Member
I would of thought that you shouldn't have any problems or diminished yields with rejuvenated plants apart from the obvious longer growing times because of the time and energy the plant has to use to overcome the damage and maybe a bit of rot with any dead roots left over. I would run a double dose of h2o2 and then plenty of enzymes to clear up and dead matter in your medium.

The only way you could effect the overall yield I would of thought is to fuck em up genetically.

So my two pence is if you are working on a tight time schedule then yes yields will be smaller obviously but if you have a little more time to play then you should be able to nurse those plants up to health and get your usual results around er 99% ;).

i have personally rehabilitated a clone that was mangy and deformed, near dead from no water, and left in darkness for about 4 days, it came out to be one of the best smokes I've ever had. yield was pretty good as well.
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Stress can cause your plant to produce more THC.

Also Vit B1 can help your plants produce new roots, I know its a bit old skool but superthrive is a good stress reliever because it contains vit B1 for the roots. I wouldn't recommend to much in flower because superthrive also contains a powerful hormone that substitutes a natural hormone produced by the plant in flower that regulated the size of the branches ETC and can cause stretching in your plants at high levels. More info wiki NAA and IBA and Hormones.

The other thing I would recommend is that you drop your nutes to about .4 mS. This will help flush out the medium with fresh nutes and chelated salts grab onto old salts and help to pull them through the medium. Also you wont upset the osmosis of the roots.
 
FLoJo

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
drgr33n said:
I would of thought that you shouldn't have any problems or diminished yields with rejuvenated plants apart from the obvious longer growing times because of the time and energy the plant has to use to overcome the damage and maybe a bit of rot with any dead roots left over. I would run a double dose of h2o2 and then plenty of enzymes to clear up and dead matter in your medium.

The only way you could effect the overall yield I would of thought is to fuck em up genetically.

So my two pence is if you are working on a tight time schedule then yes yields will be smaller obviously but if you have a little more time to play then you should be able to nurse those plants up to health and get your usual results around er 99% ;).

Stress can cause your plant to produce more THC.

Also Vit B1 can help your plants produce new roots, I know its a bit old skool but superthrive is a good stress reliever because it contains vit B1 for the roots. I wouldn't recommend to much in flower because superthrive also contains a powerful hormone that substitutes a natural hormone produced by the plant in flower that regulated the size of the branches ETC and can cause stretching in your plants at high levels. More info wiki NAA and IBA and Hormones.

The other thing I would recommend is that you drop your nutes to about .4 mS. This will help flush out the medium with fresh nutes and chelated salts grab onto old salts and help to pull them through the medium. Also you wont upset the osmosis of the roots.
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i also agree with a lot of this info.. i know stress can increase thc but im talking about in flowering.. stress in veg has nothing to do with thc production in flowering. now when you say you cant lower the yield unless you fuck em up genetically i think that if you burn the plant bad enough and the ph fluctuates too wildly.. that it will lose at least 10 percent of its total potential even if you veg it out till its healthy again.. of course i have no proof but i feel like its almost like you know when you break a bone or tear a ligament, it can heal but it will never be back to 100 percent
 
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drgr33n

Active Member
i also agree with a lot of this info.. i know stress can increase thc but im talking about in flowering.. stress in veg has nothing to do with thc production in flowering. now when you say you cant lower the yield unless you fuck em up genetically i think that if you burn the plant bad enough and the ph fluctuates too wildly.. that it will lose at least 10 percent of its total potential even if you veg it out till its healthy again.. of course i have no proof but i feel like its almost like you know when you break a bone or tear a ligament, it can heal but it will never be back to 100 percent
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Still I cannot see no reason why ?? If the PH fluctuates wildly and you damage your plants or roots once the roots and root hairs are back to normal you should see normal growth again. The same with High CF Also if the plant is not feeding the PH should not fluctuate much unless you are in a hard water area or your water temp is fluctuating.

I little story a friend of mine had a fucking sweet pheno of a plant we lost years ago. I told him to bring it round and I'l see what I can do. When the plant arived it was over watered, full of pythum and spidermites and it only had four leaves on the plant around 2cm long !!! This plant was fucked :D but because I was buying SHIT seeds for around a year and still hadn't found a good pheno I decided to isolated the plant and treat the spider mite and pythium and got this plant back up to standards and I've been running with cutting of this plant for around 2 years now and its still potent and I'm pulling amazing yields !!

In theory if you have a root damaged plant it should produce more roots when healthy again. but because the old lateral roots have been damaged the plant SHOULD in theory throw out a lot more lateral roots in the same way when you top a plant. In turn this SHOULD in theory allow more nutrition uptake by the plants in question and produce a higher yield !!! But this is just one theory ;)
 
dazed76

dazed76

New Member
bwahahahahhaahhaah vegging is the most important time you should veg twice as many as you need to get the absolute biggest thickest ones ive compared th fucked up one and the super nice ones in the same room casue often i will put stragglers on the side the healthy ones produce 2.5 times more then a fucked up nute burnt or even a nice one just a bit slow, not worth putting in with the super stars.
 
dazed76

dazed76

New Member
btw when a plants get shocked u lose 1 week thats that no dout about it it can recover u can use revive whatever but lossing 1 week is a big deal to some
 
dazed76

dazed76

New Member
on ya and if ur avatar pic is ur room bwahahahah ur losing like 30 percent of your light lol build a roof made from plywood 2 pieces joint together to form a roof of a hous reflecting the light back down to your plants, use some mylar on the bottom and hook up chains to the roof so you can play with hight also put thermometer haning down the side so you can tell how hot the air is getting vent properly but there you go 30 percent more fool
 
FLoJo

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
drgr33n said:
Still I cannot see no reason why ?? If the PH fluctuates wildly and you damage your plants or roots once the roots and root hairs are back to normal you should see normal growth again. The same with High CF Also if the plant is not feeding the PH should not fluctuate much unless you are in a hard water area or your water temp is fluctuating.

I little story a friend of mine had a fucking sweet pheno of a plant we lost years ago. I told him to bring it round and I'l see what I can do. When the plant arived it was over watered, full of pythum and spidermites and it only had four leaves on the plant around 2cm long !!! This plant was fucked :D but because I was buying SHIT seeds for around a year and still hadn't found a good pheno I decided to isolated the plant and treat the spider mite and pythium and got this plant back up to standards and I've been running with cutting of this plant for around 2 years now and its still potent and I'm pulling amazing yields !!

In theory if you have a root damaged plant it should produce more roots when healthy again. but because the old lateral roots have been damaged the plant SHOULD in theory throw out a lot more lateral roots in the same way when you top a plant. In turn this SHOULD in theory allow more nutrition uptake by the plants in question and produce a higher yield !!! But this is just one theory ;)
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yo dazed, until you show me some pics of the perfect setup dont mind how my op is doing.. is going fine thanks. and please, until you post some pics or give some inkling that you know how to grow a plant, please dont post in my threads. and quit taking up space, dont post 10 times in a row its just annoying.
if you enjoy this site even a little bit id suggest shaping up because i smell a ban coming your way.

back to the important stuff.. Yes a plant does create more roots throughout its entire lifetime, even when it is not stressed or having any problems, kinda like skin i guess would be the best way to put it.

again, we are only talking theorys here but i feel like once you have done severe enough damage to the plant, you somehow damage its inner structure, and can never fully recover to what it could have been.. for instance the plant i was talking about that was saved earlier... i have heard stories from the previous grower about what kind of yields he used to get from it in various methods, and while the yields are still good, they cannot be achieved any more.. (and this guy is legit, not like dazed who says oh i produce 50 pounds with a lighter and a nightlight, no pics just believe me) while the plant still puts out well, it does not have the full potential it once had.

again this is all theory but the best way i can describe it is like a human body, where if you break a bone bad enough, or tear a ligament you can repair it, but never back to its full potential... i guess the best way to settle this would be to take 4 seperate clones, stress 2 of em to the point of death, rehab them under a stronger light to catch up with the healthy buggers, and flower em...

still like to hear what other peeps think

FLo
 
FatSalad

FatSalad

Well-Known Member
FLoJo said:
yo dazed, until you show me some pics of the perfect setup dont mind how my op is doing.. is going fine thanks. and please, until you post some pics or give some inkling that you know how to grow a plant, please dont post in my threads. and quit taking up space, dont post 10 times in a row its just annoying.
if you enjoy this site even a little bit id suggest shaping up because i smell a ban coming your way.

back to the important stuff.. Yes a plant does create more roots throughout its entire lifetime, even when it is not stressed or having any problems, kinda like skin i guess would be the best way to put it.

again, we are only talking theorys here but i feel like once you have done severe enough damage to the plant, you somehow damage its inner structure, and can never fully recover to what it could have been.. for instance the plant i was talking about that was saved earlier... i have heard stories from the previous grower about what kind of yields he used to get from it in various methods, and while the yields are still good, they cannot be achieved any more.. (and this guy is legit, not like dazed who says oh i produce 50 pounds with a lighter and a nightlight, no pics just believe me) while the plant still puts out well, it does not have the full potential it once had.

again this is all theory but the best way i can describe it is like a human body, where if you break a bone bad enough, or tear a ligament you can repair it, but never back to its full potential... i guess the best way to settle this would be to take 4 seperate clones, stress 2 of em to the point of death, rehab them under a stronger light to catch up with the healthy buggers, and flower em...

still like to hear what other peeps think

FLo
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Yeah stress fucks up your yield.
 
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drgr33n

Active Member
Dazed hahaha you sound like a real exspert on the subject hehehe I've never heard so much crap come out of someones mouth and then you have the cheek to comment on Flo's avator !!!!

Anywayz ........

I don't think you got what I was tying to say about the roots. Roots can be topped like plants to produce more secondary roots.

Well I disagree :D Only way to settle this is put it to the test. Let me know your results would be interesting to see what happens.
 
D

drgr33n

Active Member
If a root tip is killed off all of the energy goes into the growth of new feeder roots exactly the same as if you were to top your plants and all the energy goes into the secondary branches. I wrote an article for a friend of mine to put in his shop about air root pruning and using copper spray to control the growth of roots and to cauterize them to stop bacteria setting in.

More roots = More nutrition availability

Air root pruners are easy to make all you need is two pots one larger than the other (allow 1 inch gap around the edge) and cut small slits into the smaller pot around 5 mm long and 1 mm wide. This can take a while :cry: then pot your plants into the smaller pots and when the roots grow through the slits they will dry out and cauterize. In turn your plant will produce much more root mass and have a real head start.
 
tryintogrow

tryintogrow

Well-Known Member
FLoJo said:
yo dazed, until you show me some pics of the perfect setup dont mind how my op is doing.. is going fine thanks. and please, until you post some pics or give some inkling that you know how to grow a plant, please dont post in my threads. and quit taking up space, dont post 10 times in a row its just annoying.
if you enjoy this site even a little bit id suggest shaping up because i smell a ban coming your way.

back to the important stuff.. Yes a plant does create more roots throughout its entire lifetime, even when it is not stressed or having any problems, kinda like skin i guess would be the best way to put it.

again, we are only talking theorys here but i feel like once you have done severe enough damage to the plant, you somehow damage its inner structure, and can never fully recover to what it could have been.. for instance the plant i was talking about that was saved earlier... i have heard stories from the previous grower about what kind of yields he used to get from it in various methods, and while the yields are still good, they cannot be achieved any more.. (and this guy is legit, not like dazed who says oh i produce 50 pounds with a lighter and a nightlight, no pics just believe me) while the plant still puts out well, it does not have the full potential it once had.

again this is all theory but the best way i can describe it is like a human body, where if you break a bone bad enough, or tear a ligament you can repair it, but never back to its full potential... i guess the best way to settle this would be to take 4 seperate clones, stress 2 of em to the point of death, rehab them under a stronger light to catch up with the healthy buggers, and flower em...

still like to hear what other peeps think

FLo
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ya the plants i am growing right now were actually from teh last plant of the strain. it was planted outside as a last resort effort, and since it has been takin back inside and cloned 8 more generations it still has not reach its full potency again. one fucked, fucked for a while....
 
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