Losing the battle with first grow in promix HP, help!

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Fortygrit

Active Member
Nightmare first grow with Promix HP. Battles with low PH, nutrient toxicity/deficiency/lockout, overwatering.. you name it. Plants are now 7 weeks old from seed. Just transplanted 6 days ago into 3gal pots of promix from 1gal where they were root bound, droopy, and off colour (pale). On recommendation did a mild epsom salt type flush in the 1gal pots about 5 days before transplant and let dry out before transplanting. Ran PH 7.0 water with a small amount of cal mag through the new pots about 3 times with 10%-20% runoff still only managed to get PH up to about 5.4-5.5 with ppm’s running very high at 1600-1800.

I desperately want to run a shit ton of water through to flush them completely and start over but afraid of drowning the poor girls as they have a history of overwatering. Any help including drastic measures to save/get these back on track is appreciated.
 

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a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
talk about your watering. Sounds like you are way over saturating when watering. why all this runoff watering? Whats the npk of your nutrients you are using?
 
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Fortygrit

Active Member
a mongo frog said:
talk about your watering. Sounds like you are way over saturating when watering. why all this runoff watering? Whats the npk of your nutrients you are using?
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From the beginning in solo cups I have been watering until it just starts to run out the bottom. Let the promix dry until the pots are really light (apparently not lite enough). The last watering at transplant, the excessive runoff was to try and get the PH up and the ppm’s down. I am using green planet Medi One nutrients with a npk of 4-3-3. I have since learned that these nutes are inherently acidic hence increasing the acidity of the already somewhat acidic PRO mix.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Fortygrit said:
From the beginning in solo cups I have been watering until it just starts to run out the bottom. Let the promix dry until the pots are really light (apparently not lite enough). The last watering at transplant, the excessive runoff was to try and get the PH up and the ppm’s down. I am using green planet Medi One nutrients with a npk of 4-3-3. I have since learned that these nutes are inherently acidic hence increasing the acidity of the already somewhat acidic PRO mix.
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What pH are you trying to “get up” by watering to runoff? You’re doing this all wrong. Pro Mix is simple. Epsom salt flush? Pray tell. Where did this hint come from?
 
Bernie420

Bernie420

Well-Known Member
hotrodharley said:
What pH are you trying to “get up” by watering to runoff? You’re doing this all wrong. Pro Mix is simple. Epsom salt flush? Pray tell. Where did this hint come from?
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I learned that when a plant has extra mag it releases other nutrients that are mobile in the plant . Kind of like a fair exchange sort of thing. It wants mag. I cant explain it any better.
 
Capn-Crunch

Capn-Crunch

Well-Known Member
I agree with Bernie420. Use a Mag/water mix to spray your leaves a couple times a day until resolved.
STOP ALL THE FLUSHING CRAP
I also noticed very tight node spacing, so I would check light hanging distance to plant also.
I think you have multiple issues going on that are making the problem snowball.
 
Bernie420

Bernie420

Well-Known Member
Fortygrit said:
Nightmare first grow with Promix HP. Battles with low PH, nutrient toxicity/deficiency/lockout, overwatering.. you name it. Plants are now 7 weeks old from seed. Just transplanted 6 days ago into 3gal pots of promix from 1gal where they were root bound, droopy, and off colour (pale). On recommendation did a mild epsom salt type flush in the 1gal pots about 5 days before transplant and let dry out before transplanting. Ran PH 7.0 water with a small amount of cal mag through the new pots about 3 times with 10%-20% runoff still only managed to get PH up to about 5.4-5.5 with ppm’s running very high at 1600-1800.

I desperately want to run a shit ton of water through to flush them completely and start over but afraid of drowning the poor girls as they have a history of overwatering. Any help including drastic measures to save/get these back on track is appreciated.
Click to expand...
watering is a skill you dont want it to get too dry yet you dont want it to be constantly drowning the roots either. Of course when you water it it is very wet the trick is to know when to water again.

I would flush pots with phed to 6.5 of clean water to runoff a lot of run off. you have small pots so this isnt going to be very hard. Then I would renute at half strength which will be a little run off as well phed to 6.5. Add in about 10ml of cal mag per gal. A little kelp never hurt anything .And get some MICROBES dont do shit till you get some microbes. You flushed out all your microbes because with that soil you hardly had any to begin with.

Plants look N K and mag deficient right off the bat to me.

do this then leave it alone till you have to water again then do it at 3/4 strength as they should be back on track and healthier.

STOP checking ph run off is dumb as fuck and tells you dick. and ppm run off is silly unless you just want to know for fun. Microbes regulate all that shit for you.

No mention of environment or lights.

when you talk of the plants being root bound I doubt that they were, inherently acidic ok you know this how or what does that mean you dont know I dont know lets just make shit up and go with it.
Let the promix dry until the pots are really light (apparently not lite enough) It was dry enough, if you say really light in a solo cup it was dry enough. Probably too dry and you stressed the plant out.

Dont ever stress the plant is the number one thing to be a great grower.





 
Bernie420

Bernie420

Well-Known Member
Capn-Crunch said:
I agree with Bernie420. Use a Mag/water mix to spray your leaves a couple times a day until resolved.
STOP ALL THE FLUSHING CRAP
I also noticed very tight node spacing, so I would check light hanging distance to plant also.
I think you have multiple issues going on that are making the problem snowball.
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yup foliar feed some mag at about 200-250 ppms with a little dish soap / a few drops (natural dish soap) as a surfactant would be a great thing to do.
 
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piratebug

Well-Known Member
Any pro mix hp bag I have ever tested the pH out of the bag was never better than pH 5.6, so in my opinion it always needs Dolomite Lime, 1 1/4 tablespoons per 1 gallon of medium will bring your pH up +0.2pH, so your 3 gallon pots need 4 tablespoons Dolomite Lime to get your medium to pH 6.4. And that should be repeated every 6 weeks if you are draining to waste at 20% each time you water or feed. And to add it to your pots, dump 4 x 1 1/2 tablespoons at 12/3/6/9 o'clock, then use a dinner fork to work it in to your medium.
 
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70's natureboy

70's natureboy

Well-Known Member
Where is da freak? He tells us all the time that growing in Pro Mix is the simplest way to start growing. I guess it ain't always so simple. It's good you are making all your mistakes on your first try. I grew in Pro Mix for many years. I never got on the run off band wagon. I just feed them what they need without drowning them. Your little plants can't handle much flooding. Your nute experiment may need some fine tuning. The old stand by nutes are easier to work with and have more past info available. Less is usually more with nutes. I rarely go over 900 ppm

I would up-pot them so the roots can get into some fresh Pro Mix and cut the nutes in half. Then give them only enough water to last them 2-3 days. If they don't drink the water by 4 days you watered too much. I only water "too much" when I go on vacation. You should be able to save these plants easily but the stress they have gone through has slowed them down
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
The OP still hasn’t explained the epsom salt flushes. Bernie explained foliar feeding to me like I needed that bit of education. I’ve never heard of anyone flushing with mag sulfate. How many of you guys have? Flushing large amounts is stupid in the first place. Using mag sulfate to do is ridiculous. Please someone post something fairly scientific backing this up since it’s apparently very common.
 
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Fortygrit

Active Member
hotrodharley said:
What pH are you trying to “get up” by watering to runoff? You’re doing this all wrong. Pro Mix is simple. Epsom salt flush? Pray tell. Where did this hint come from?
Click to expand...
Trying to get PH up to 6.0-6.5 ..good or not? Epsom salt flush idea was from a grower been doing medium scale for 3 yrs. Obviously super bad idea just pushed my ppms way up. I was told by many to water pro mix until you just start to get a little runoff to make sure the medium is wet all the way through then let dry out until the pots become very light weight then water/ feed ..not proper advice ?
 
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Fortygrit

Active Member
70's natureboy said:
Where is da freak? He tells us all the time that growing in Pro Mix is the simplest way to start growing. I guess it ain't always so simple. It's good you are making all your mistakes on your first try. I grew in Pro Mix for many years. I never got on the run off band wagon. I just feed them what they need without drowning them. Your little plants can't handle much flooding. Your nute experiment may need some fine tuning. The old stand by nutes are easier to work with and have more past info available. Less is usually more with nutes. I rarely go over 900 ppm

I would up-pot them so the roots can get into some fresh Pro Mix and cut the nutes in half. Then give them only enough water to last them 2-3 days. If they don't drink the water by 4 days you watered too much. I only water "too much" when I go on vacation. You should be able to save these plants easily but the stress they have gone through has slowed them down
Click to expand...
 
F

Fortygrit

Active Member
Capn-Crunch said:
I agree with Bernie420. Use a Mag/water mix to spray your leaves a couple times a day until resolved.
STOP ALL THE FLUSHING CRAP
I also noticed very tight node spacing, so I would check light hanging distance to plant also.
I think you have multiple issues going on that are making the problem snowball.
Click to expand...
The initial watering with the runoff/ flush after transplant I did add a light amount of cal mag (1ml/l). I will try the cal mag foliant spray. It has also been suggested a foliant spray with diluted liquid seaweed (yes or no?).

My light is a 320w 3qb LED it is 28” above the plants and running at about 80% of full brightness.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Fortygrit said:
Trying to get PH up to 6.0-6.5 ..good or not? Epsom salt flush idea was from a grower been doing medium scale for 3 yrs. Obviously super bad idea just pushed my ppms way up. I was told by many to water pro mix until you just start to get a little runoff to make sure the medium is wet all the way through then let dry out until the pots become very light weight then water/ feed ..not proper advice ?
Click to expand...
With peat you should wait until the medium is actually fairly dry. The weight system is absolutely the best way to accomplish this. Then water sufficiently so that it reaches the bottom of the container. That’s where the roots are most responsible for water uptake. Peat compacts well. Remember when you bought it?

I recommend aerating and cultivating the medium regularly. Meaning before each feeding or watering. Use skewers or long screwdrivers that reach all the way to the bottom. If not you’ll end up with a hockey puck on the bottom of the container that water will go around before it can go into and through. Do this especially directly under the plant in the main hardened root mass. The first time you stick something through that mass you’ll understand.

Don’t flush anymore and toss the magnesium totally for a while. Don’t flush anything at all. Just my opinion.
 
70's natureboy

70's natureboy

Well-Known Member
Fortygrit said:
Trying to get PH up to 6.0-6.5 ..good or not? Epsom salt flush idea was from a grower been doing medium scale for 3 yrs. Obviously super bad idea just pushed my ppms way up. I was told by many to water pro mix until you just start to get a little runoff to make sure the medium is wet all the way through then let dry out until the pots become very light weight then water/ feed ..not proper advice ?
Click to expand...
How much to water depends on the pot size. In a proper size pot a little run off would be fine. If you have a 12" plant in a 5 gal pail it won't be able to handle any runoff. If it does it will take over a week to drink it. A 5 foot plant in a 5 gal pail may be able to drink it in 2-3 days which would be perfect. I have put 2 foot plants in a 5 gal pail and only give them a 1/2 gal of water every 2 days. No runoff but I know how much they are drinking or how much I expect them to drink.
 
F

Fortygrit

Active Member
Bernie420 said:
watering is a skill you dont want it to get too dry yet you dont want it to be constantly drowning the roots either. Of course when you water it it is very wet the trick is to know when to water again.

I would flush pots with phed to 6.5 of clean water to runoff a lot of run off. you have small pots so this isnt going to be very hard. Then I would renute at half strength which will be a little run off as well phed to 6.5. Add in about 10ml of cal mag per gal. A little kelp never hurt anything .And get some MICROBES dont do shit till you get some microbes. You flushed out all your microbes because with that soil you hardly had any to begin with.

Plants look N K and mag deficient right off the bat to me.

do this then leave it alone till you have to water again then do it at 3/4 strength as they should be back on track and healthier.

STOP checking ph run off is dumb as fuck and tells you dick. and ppm run off is silly unless you just want to know for fun. Microbes regulate all that shit for you.

No mention of environment or lights.

when you talk of the plants being root bound I doubt that they were, inherently acidic ok you know this how or what does that mean you dont know I dont know lets just make shit up and go with it.
Let the promix dry until the pots are really light (apparently not lite enough) It was dry enough, if you say really light in a solo cup it was dry enough. Probably too dry and you stressed the plant out.

Dont ever stress the plant is the number one thing to be a great grower

Click to expand...
 
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F

Fortygrit

Active Member
Thanks all for the advice mucho appreciated!

The plants should be ready for some water in a day or two.
I will add cal mag to this watering as suggested. Should I also add a little liquid kelp to this watering.

What is the best way to add microbes into the medium?

I will also skewer the soil/root ball as hotrod suggested.

I just transplanted into 3 gal pots from 1 gal so the promix is fresh aside from the 1 gal root ball which were packed with roots all around especially the bottoms. They were not bright white I must say but not rotted by any stretch.

Bernie420 I am confused.... first you say Stop all the flushing crap then you suggest
Flushing the pots with phed 6.5 of clean water to runoff..a lot of run off. Not sure I want to do this as it has been 6 days since I did this at transplant into the 3 gal pots and my medium still is not dry.

Also when should I feed nutrients again It has been recommended not to because of how high the ppm’s in the medium are already but to try and unlock the plants instead so they can uptake what is there. It is just hard to look at them and see that they looked starved for nutrients.
 
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