LED Noobs, STOP Buying China Junk

First, china sell snake oil

Lots of exaggerations

Lowest quality parts,

no support after the sale

AND they have the spectrums wrong

Multibands and multichips mean lots of different temperatures and driver requirements, If any fail you're screwed

Quality far red and IR diodes are very expensive. The crap they add will not last or be very effective (more sales hype)

There will no doubt be some saying theirs works fine, but for how long, and at what PR lumen loss in one year?

A lot of us have been R & D'ing and experimenting with various led alternatives, including common led light bulbs for 3+ years

We have found several manufacturers who are dedicated to producing quality lights. And yes, they cost more, but are within most starter budgets

Most importantly, they will easily outperform the chinese offerings

Of great benefit to you is, several companies now have smaller panels at affordable prices.

Just add more panels as your budget allows. Some have lots of successful grows, others are from quality companies and use quality parts, but are yet to be proven

Area 51 now has a sweet RW 75 $250 http://a51led.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=191

Innoled is the first to offer nanotechnology

http://innoledinc.com/product/innoled-50w-led-grow-light-system-replaces-a-400w-sodium-copy/ $395

BML Horticulture offers a unique individual bar option where you can select your own spectrums

Bars are available from 12" @ $119/ft; 18" @ $134; 24" @ $179...

There are no doubt more companies, so those who know of them, feel free to add them along with links to make it easier on the noobs
http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-led-strip/

Lol, more Chinese LED bashing, it's getting really old. You must hate threads like mine

In every market, as it matures and volume hits a tipping point, Asian markets (aka China, Korea) will come in and start putting out volume production, cheap labour helps them, but that's changed over the last few years, it's not just sweat shops any more. They have invested heavily in capital and although not perfect, they are a force to be reckoned with. You know what you're up against when their (China's) economy is doing "bad" if they get below 8% growth (2014 target is 7.4% and they're in a "downturn"), compare that to any other country's growth expectations and you realize what we're dealing with.

They are good at copying, typically rely on volume, not innovation, but with new manufacturing investments they will improve quality, watch out. All you have to do is look at the computer and auto industry to realize they're not just a bunch of commie cheap labour shops, they either build parts or assemble huge volumes in those industries, many products for top-tier, well-known companies, with expensive brand names. Products that are consumed world-wide, not just in the US. In many cases, these very same shops are putting out their own "no-name" products, on the same production lines, side-by-side with the big brand names. This is where the opportunities lie for middle of the road, decent quality, low prices products.

I understand where a lot of the bashing comes from, particularly for those countries where their economy is struggling, and totally agree that they put out a lot of crap. But like any other growing market, there is maturation, and market drivers ($) that will weed out the crap. In between there's always some gems, at much lower prices than leading edge technology, but of reasonable quality at very reasonable prices. This builds tiers in any industry, the early adopters will typically go with leading edge, the next tier of customers will go middle of the road, and of course the bottom tier will always buy on price alone, typically the bottom of the barrel and the most vulnerable to rip-off's.

IMO "LED Noobs, BEWARE buying Chinese" would be more appropriate in the current state of the LED market. General, broad-brush painting that all Chinese LED's are crap is getting old and will be tuned out more and more as the market matures. So is the buy American quality line, get over it. If Americans ever want to get back to where they were they'll need to change their ways and adapt to a new world economy, where America is (currently) no longer the leader. That's not a bad thing, if done right American ingenuity could drive new markets/products that differentiate themselves from middle-of-the-road and low-end crap, allowing to dig yourselves out of the current situation. I'm not American bashing, I have a lot of friends there, spend a lot of time in the US on business, my siblings live there, but your attitudes and ways have to change, bashing others, while it may make you temporarily make you feel better, is going to get you further behind the 8 ball... it's a whole new world, adapt/change, or get left behind...

I bought a 130 dollar 300 watt led from ebay drop shipped from china . brought it to one of my favorite hydro stores . we hooked it up to a light meter that checks all the light quality and so on its a high tech piece of equipment needless to say . and we put it next to a brand name ( KIND) LED . the results were almost the same very close marginal . so I could buy 4 ebay china lights per 1 ( kind ) light . and have the same lighting . and guess what I still don't like led . because I hate to wait that long to veg . they don't compare to mh no way no how they will compare with mh grow speed . and hps for the yields .

meaning to say kind lights costing 4 or 6 times more then china lighting same results .

damn don't I look sexy in this pic ?

Funny thread lol

Oh contrar GroErr, yours is one of the few exceptions

Maybe you got lucky, maybe you actually did some research

but most quickly die with no recourse

The difference between a probable bad led and a good one is not that much

I don't sell any, so Im just lookin out

kinddiesel said:

I bought a 130 dollar 300 watt led from ebay drop shipped from china . brought it to one of my favorite hydro stores . we hooked it up to a light meter that checks all the light quality and so on its a high tech piece of equipment needless to say . and we put it next to a brand name ( KIND) LED . the results were almost the same very close marginal . so I could buy 4 ebay china lights per 1 ( kind ) light . and have the same lighting . and guess what I still don't like led . because I hate to wait that long to veg . they don't compare to mh no way no how they will compare with mh grow speed . and hps for the yields .

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I agree. The penetration intensity just isn't there. I'm not one of these that believe HPS will always be the gold standard for growing quality AND quantity , as technology is always improving but for now, I still see HPS as the gold standard for growing.Another thing I do not like is the cost of replacement of an LED unit should it die right after warranty. A tried and true cheap new 400 HPS digital ballast like Apollo or iPower , with bat wing reflector, bulb and shipping included can be ordered off ebay for $100 max ,and the grow area will cover 3x3 well. If the HPS bulb goes out 3 months later, you can easily replace it the same day or the next day locally by buying a $20 bulb from Home Depot. I would still say for anyone looking at starting to grow, to go with a deal like this instead of shelling out multiples of hundreds to duplicate what that single 400 HPS for $100 will do. Even for the experienced and I've been growing since 2007, I'm still a believer in HPS. My power bill might be $30 tops a month from my HPS grow and I never run the HPS for more than 12 hours per day. I just don't see any worthwhile savings with an LED, not even in the long run. That's not to say things might be different 4 or 5 years from now when technology or even other lighting inventions might come out. I'm willing to keep an open mind but until that day, it's HPS for the win.

I feel you on this topic pet.

Not naming names..tried the Asia direct method. Two lights.

One 100w light upgraded to cree leds on a custom order...would shut down every 15 minutes..overheating. Too hard for them to test it first? Can't figure out how to cool the leds? F'n dumdums

Other light, 400w cobs. Ran like a furnace. Temps 98+ and impossible to evacuate the heat. I'm sure the cobs would have melted eventually.

Contacted the sales representative. Was told in his broken english that they were sorry and that they would get the next order right.

Guess what...there won't be a next time.

Is this indicative of all companies?

No...buts it's a real f'n possibility.

Caveat emptor!

PetFlora said:

Oh contrar GroErr, yours is one of the few exceptions

Maybe you got lucky, maybe you actually did some research

but most quickly die with no recourse

The difference between a probable bad led and a good one is not that much

I don't sell any, so Im just lookin out

Click to expand...

A bit of both, my only concern with your original post was it had too broad a brush, painting all Chinese LED's as junk. I don't disagree that there is junk, have a couple in my basement that won't see any action, except maybe cool lighting in my music room when it's finished My son has one of my original purchases which he's using for vegging while he builds his new room, it does ok in veg but sucked big time in flowering. The current LG grow though is rock'n, continues to put fat on the nugs, no sign of slowing down.

I would be purchasing an Apache or Hans before I purchased a BML or Innoled....

kinddiesel said:

I bought a 130 dollar 300 watt led from ebay drop shipped from china . brought it to one of my favorite hydro stores . we hooked it up to a light meter that checks all the light quality and so on its a high tech piece of equipment needless to say . and we put it next to a brand name ( KIND) LED . the results were almost the same very close marginal . so I could buy 4 ebay china lights per 1 ( kind ) light . and have the same lighting . and guess what I still don't like led . because I hate to wait that long to veg . they don't compare to mh no way no how they will compare with mh grow speed . and hps for the yields .

Click to expand...

kind led is Chinese junk. Cidly Apollo rebranded. So not much of a comparison.

Silly geese, does not matter WHERE unit is made. What matters is the quality of the components used and to a smaller extent the quality of workmanship. Funniest thing is all but one of the units you guys foam over are made in China. This idiot is still bashing "kind led" just because the housing looks like a cheap-ass Chinese model. Too stupid to understand that there are only a handful of factories making ALL these fixtures. They are made to the specs demanded by the company who places the order, they can be crap or they can be good. A51=China, Blackdog=China, Growevolution=China, as well as just about every other company. The three outfits I just mentioned make products which work equally as well. Don't be fooled by a fool.

lumbo said:

Silly geese, does not matter WHERE unit is made. What matters is the quality of the components used and to a smaller extent the quality of workmanship. Funniest thing is all but one of the units you guys foam over are made in China. This idiot is still bashing "kind led" just because the housing looks like a cheap-ass Chinese model. Too stupid to understand that there are only a handful of factories making ALL these fixtures. They are made to the specs demanded by the company who places the order, they can be crap or they can be good. A51=China, Blackdog=China, Growevolution=China, as well as just about every other company. The three outfits I just mentioned make products which work equally as well. Don't be fooled by a fool.

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A51 is not made in China, they buy the casing only from Bysen.
SDS covered this why chinese lights are usually poor based on diodes. It is in the quality of diodes they use. The best monochrome diode are usually reserved for making white light. That is one reason. They strive it seems to use the cheapest, junkiest diodes for the lights.

Most of this is moot anyway, let's see some radiometric or quantum measurements, then we would have some progress.

I agree with pet flora.

I spent thousands on cheap chinese leds. Im now happy with my Area 51 and soon diy cree.

Well I absolutely agree with you that it is all about the quality of the diodes used. However, I must reiterate that all Chinese made fixtures do not use "el cheapo" components. You do not have to pay through the nose to get a good fixture. People here seem to be swayed by the cost of the fixture. Look how the units they promote are also the most expensive.

lumbo said:

Silly geese, does not matter WHERE unit is made. What matters is the quality of the components used and to a smaller extent the quality of workmanship. Funniest thing is all but one of the units you guys foam over are made in China. This idiot is still bashing "kind led" just because the housing looks like a cheap-ass Chinese model. Too stupid to understand that there are only a handful of factories making ALL these fixtures. They are made to the specs demanded by the company who places the order, they can be crap or they can be good. A51=China, Blackdog=China, Growevolution=China, as well as just about every other company. The three outfits I just mentioned make products which work equally as well. Don't be fooled by a fool.

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open up a kind led and you will see its the same low quality half ass light with knock off parts as cidly.. A51 gets their casing from china. Everything else is from the U.S. and assembled in the U.S. Apache, Nichia leds are from Japan and I think casing too. Everything else is U.S. Made and assembled in the U.S. Learn some facts before spouting off nonsense. Chinese factories do not have quality control. Nor any innovations. They copy and build with low quality parts and sell cheap...

There risk involved in the Chinese panels, no question. Just have to pick through a lot of crap to find them. Lots of grows here though to check out some panels that perform. LED is more of a technology, I get bored quick, figure I'll treat them like I treat my cars, notebooks, tablets (I have 4) and the like, so if I can use a low priced chinese panel for a year or two and produce what I need, good enough for me. Next year (month?) I'll be trying the latest available tech anyhow, it's a vicious circle, but a lot of fun If you're the type that buys once and sticks with it, a higher end panel would make more sense, the warranty and service level, is what you pay for with the higher priced panels.

well china haters go buy that usa made led that is actually all china parts and really made in china even though it says usa made on it . they do the same . so ill spend 100 you spend 600 for the same light . but different stickers . china is kicking our ass in electronics no way we can compare in electronics . and for high quality . electronics we all know the very best you can buy is in hong kung . reason for this is the us labor rate is to high . every body thinks they have to get paid major bucks for a no skill job unions kill jobs . so face it china electronics and import haters . turn off your pc and your tv stereo cd player even your car . because its all or most of it is from china .

kinddiesel said:

well china haters go buy that usa made led that is actually all china parts and really made in china even though it says usa made on it . they do the same . so ill spend 100 you spend 600 for the same light . but different stickers . china is kicking our ass in electronics no way we can compare in electronics . and for high quality . electronics we all know the very best you can buy is in hong kung . reason for this is the us labor rate is to high . every body thinks they have to get paid major bucks for a no skill job unions kill jobs . so face it china electronics and import haters . turn off your pc and your tv stereo cd player even your car . because its all or most of it is from china .

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how do you figure. My $500 led will. Cover the same are as your cheap ass Chinese led at half the watts and double the par and higher cri. Your cheap Chinese led will fail in 6 months and mine will still be going strong in 5 years... Cree has plants in 12 countries. They are based in Santa Barbara California.

china copies. Japan on the other hand...... Sony is American made and been for the last few years. Sharp makes all Sony products. That's why they have gone down hill. Samsung is japanes and runs the electronic world. Cree (u.s.) Philips (u.s) and Sylvania (Germany) run the lighting world. Nothing innovative comes from china. Even their weapons came from the U.S. and Russia. Even the window washers in china don't use lifts. Just rope and a plank of wood. That's innovative alright lol. All the cars are from the 80's. Most of the country rides 1970's schwins (u.s.). Chinas biggest company is berrenger audio. The worst audio equipment there is. Even Korea has better everything than them. Hyundai, Daewoo, Kia and those suck.