Leaves angle downward - unknown auto strain

Hey fella's, I'm growing an unknown auto strain, some seeds that a buddy sent me to test out. I think they're some type of AK47 cross.

Current conditions:
Air Temp: 79.70F
Humidity: 55.10%
Hydro Temp: 68.56F

Seedlings range in age from about 5 days old to about 10 days old. Light on temps are around 80-81F and lights off is 77F. Humidity is always between 40-60% and the lighting is 90w metal halide about 4" above canopy in a glass cool tube.

Yesterday, I lowered the lights on temp to 75F for the entire 18hr duration and saw no difference. In fact, the drooping or downward angle is more pronounced when the lights are off.

They're potted in rapid rooter cubes and I allow the cubes to dry before top feeding again as only the 2 largest seedlings have roots beginning to protrude into the dwc.

Not sure if this is just genetics or if it's something in my environment, as they all appear to be doing it, even the new seedlings.

I'm feeding the little ones in the back a nute mixture of around 350ppm (hanna) of GH FloraNova Grow, Fish & seaweed, superthrive, pH'd to 5.7, let rise to 5.9 then adjust back down.

The larger 2 seedlings get a slightly stronger mixture of 470ppm GH FloraNova Grow and Superthrive, pH'd the same. They have a few roots dangling in the dwc now but I still top feed with the same solution when the rapid rooter dries out.

They're growing at what seems to be a normal and healthy rate, look green and happy with daily root development. Not sure if this is a problem or just genetics or what.
I thought maybe it is from the lighting, but the droop is more pronounced with lights off and they perk up slightly when light comes on. They're not cupping, curling, or burning, etc... Just have that bend.

The overall picture is from today, the other pics are from yesterday to 3 days ago.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

This is DWC? And the medium you have them in is what? I'm certainly no hydro expert but I'm having trouble figuring out where you are here. Were these sprouted elsewhere ansd then placed in this DWC? The roots look good, the plants look fine really. As to not being any expert I am wondering why your PPM is so high on these?

It is DWC... medium is only the rapid rooter plug, no hydroton, 2" net pots. They are started in the DWC, but obviously have no influence from the nutrients in it until the roots grow out and down. Until then I hand water from the top with a syringe.
Usually giving about 2oz per feeding. I'm following advice from another grower as per the nutrient strength and it has been working out well. I also have an ultrasonic fogger in the DWC to provide high humidity in the root zone. It has given very hairy roots, however I am worried that this may actually be stunting root growth at this stage.

The seed breeder thinks that I may be watering the rapid rooter plugs too much at once, that I may need to give less per feeding but feed more often. I do a wet/dry cycle, but maybe I should wet less but more frequently.

I should note that this is only a test, otherwise I wouldn't have different aged seedlings going like this. I am actually waiting for a propagator to show up and then I'll be scraping the DWC system for the seedling compartment of my cabinet.

they look fine...they will perk up. only thing i see is your light looks far away to me....from what i can see

that was the only thing i was thinking could cause that but i just kept my mouth shut since i know the plant will get larger and your problem will resolve itself...looks like a plant in a damp situation..but your fine man def dont want to dry out a seedling!

Why the hell are you feeding them? They have their own stored food source still. And you wonder why?

superstoner1 said:

Why the hell are you feeding them? They have their own stored food source still. And you wonder why?

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lol, and where is this food stored?

kermit2692 said:

they look fine...they will perk up. only thing i see is your light looks far away to me....from what i can see

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I'm at 4" away... Can't get closer because it gets too hot. When I get the propagator I'll be setting the lights up differently and it'll be more focused directly on the 10 site propagator.

kermit2692 said:

that was the only thing i was thinking could cause that but i just kept my mouth shut since i know the plant will get larger and your problem will resolve itself...looks like a plant in a damp situation..but your fine man def dont want to dry out a seedling!

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I'll water less per feeding and look to water more frequently. Try to find a happy middle ground. I only water like two times a day now. Maybe if my lighting was closer and/or better focused, they'd be sucking the water up faster.

NO food this young man the seedling have reserve energy man rule # 1 LISTEN TO YOUR PLAnT nOT A feeding schedule they will let u know when they are ready for feeding bro.

harley420 said:

NO food this young man the seedling have reserve energy man rule # 1 LISTEN TO YOUR PLAnT nOT A feeding schedule they will let u know when they are ready for feeding bro.

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bro, they stop growing after 4-5 days if I don't feed them. I went through a dozen seeds that all stopped growing at the exact same time, until I started feeding them. Where do you guys think this magical food store is?

ya i think the light helps that and also what ive noticed is it depends how open your room is...idk if you check your humidity (i usually dont need to) but it may just be nice and high and if your room is sealed that could slightly affect it as well whereas a room at the same humidity but nice and open will not adversely affect the plants.....maybe idk lol this is speculation based on logical science....oh and also i immediately had the same thought, why are you feeding already, however i brushed it off since i grow in soil and dont want to spread the wrong advice, but it is true that for the first three or so inches and first node or two a seedling already has enough stored energy and in dirt not only does the seedling have stored energy for a week or so of life but the dirt will have nutrients regardless of what you add to it so you dont need to feed for about a month in dirt. i assume that is different in hydro though..or dwc if that isnt a form of hydro

It could a humidity issue. I grow in a computer controlled sealed cabinet that has hardware to control air temp & humidity. The RH is being kept between 40-60% but I can lower it and see what happens.

I use deep water culture, it's hydro. My water is distilled, so there is zero nutes available to the growing roots. They always always always die or grow extremely slow if I do not feed. I went through several different strains from reputable growers because they would all stop growing or slow to a virtual stand still until I started feeding. Guys where always telling me not to feed, that this rapidly growing plant has some magical food store somewhere... I feed, it works; as the pictures show.

I didn't realize this until I stumbled past this post on grass city... http://forum.grasscity.com/hydropon...al-sensi-star-6-sq-ft-scrog-single-plant.html
Every single one of my seedlings died until I came across this post and followed what he did. Now they live and are growing much faster.

I'd still like for someone to tell me where in the seedling a food cache is stored.

idk somewhere in their..if you were an alien and looked at a human you kept without feeding for a week...you would go damn its using stored energy somehow...lol....but like you just confirmed i figured a hudro set up would need food much quicker because lack of a feeding medium..again that "stored food" you question is only enough for a week ish anyway....i do know this, a plant works like an egg and in an egg you have the yolk which feeds the chick but in a seed you have the uh the.....shit i forget the name and dont want to go look it up but they have a layer that protects and feeds the embryo and if you notice when a seed is germing into a seedling the seed case sometimes hangs onto a leaf by a small dried out skin and that is the final act of the seedling sucking up its natural food source which will last it that first week or so....its true i promise

You laugh at me like I was joking. You need to do some self education. See those funny little roundish leaves? Yes, the very first ones. Those are the stored food source from being a seed. When they start to shrivel and brown is when the plant has used those stored nutes. I never give seedlings food until they show me they need it. Plus giving nutes too early will cause roots to not grow as good because they are not having to search for food. Just trying to help you Dude, but what the hell do i know other than I have never had your problem in the 50 plus different strains I have grown and the 2+ pounds I harvest every three weeks.

Right, the food stored in the seed is called Endosperm and it surrounds the embyro. Once the seedling, encased in the husk, breaks through the soil (or growing medium) it sheds the husk along with the endosperm. That dried membrane that sometimes hangs on isn't doing anything, it's just a remnant of the layer inside the husk. Most of my seedlings shed the husk, along with the endosperm, as they break through to the surface and the husk usually falls right next to the hole that the cotyledons emerged from. They're no longer being fed and unaltered distilled water has no nutritional value, it washes minerals out of a cell, which is why it isn't smart to consume distilled water on a regular basis or during physical activity - you piss out minerals and salts and aren't replacing them with intake.

superstoner1 said:

You laugh at me like I was joking. You need to do some self education. See those funny little roundish leaves? Yes, the very first ones. Those are the stored food source from being a seed. When they start to shrivel and brown is when the plant has used those stored nutes. I never give seedlings food until they show me they need it. Plus giving nutes too early will cause roots to not grow as good because they are not having to search for food. Just trying to help you Dude, but what the hell do i know other than I have never had your problem in the 50 plus different strains I have grown and the 2+ pounds I harvest every three weeks.

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What water do you use? What method do you use to grow?

i wasnt saying the endosperm is still feeding the seedling but that it already has fed the seedling and it can survive for a week or so from that...i understand it sheds that off

My plants have never grown past 4-5 days without feeding at least a small amount. Once I start feeding the growth resumes, otherwise they go into an "embalmed" state where they don't die, they just don't grow or change... This always happens soon after the first set of true leaves form.

I've heard feeding after the 3rd day from other people as well and they recommend starting at 300ppm. I follow the advice of those who say not to feed and my plants don't grow, so I switched to the side that agree with feeding early and my plants grow. Personally, I want my plants to grow. If I was in soil or using tap water, I wouldn't add nutrients this early. The cotyledons on cannabis are ephemeral (which is why they fall off... , they only have enough food stores for a few days, max. When grown in biologically healthy soil, this isn't an issue.

I use city tap water and grow in Aero and dwc. And before you embarrass yourself further please look up the definition of Cotyledon. Those funny little first leaves that are on your plants.

flyingsteve said:

My plants have never grown past 4-5 days without feeding at least a small amount. Once I start feeding the growth resumes, otherwise they go into an "embalmed" state where they don't die, they just don't grow or change... This always happens soon after the first set of true leaves form.

I've heard feeding after the 3rd day from other people as well and they recommend starting at 300ppm. I follow the advice of those who say not to feed and my plants don't grow, so I switched to the side that agree with feeding early and my plants grow. Personally, I want my plants to grow. If I was in soil or using tap water, I wouldn't add nutrients this early. The cotyledons on cannabis are ephemeral (which is why they fall off... , they only have enough food stores for a few days, max. When grown in biologically healthy soil, this isn't an issue.

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That's because thier growth at that point in time cannot be seen unless you're an earthworm. It's always roots before shoots. You keep jumping the gun it seems.