Just add water

So I've been growing in coco for years. Prior to that I was doing straight hydro. I've also done soil grows as well. I'm transitioning into organic soil growing with the goal of reusing everything and reducing the need to do anything other than just provide plain water for the entire grow. With that goal in mind I've embarked on a journey into the unknown. Well at this point unknown to me. I know it's possible so I'm going to see if I can be successful. Using some soil that has been recycled more than once and has been amended with a variety of organics I've started the journey.

These plants have been grown in nothing but soil I mixed and have been given nothing but plain water since the seed went into soil. Pictures were taken about 2 weeks after switching to 12/12. They're not as dark green as the photo's represent. The lighting in the garage sucks. They seem to be doing pretty good so far. I didn't do any training other than topping them once and I was too lazy to lower the light in the tent when I put them in so they stretched more than they should have from the light being farther away than it should have been. But overall I'm pretty satisfied with the results so far. I'm anticipating some potential nutrient issues possibly in the next few weeks but hopefully not.

Just soil, water, and an old school 600 watt HPS light because I'm living in the past. I'm not monitoring humidity, I'm not measuring PAR or worrying about VPD. I planted a seed, watered it, and gave it light. Just an experiment for now and a good learning experience. I had hydro, coco, and even soil dialed in years ago but I was always adding fertilizer during the process. I want to just mix some soil and call it a day. I'm also bored with the way I've been growing so I want to do something different and learn while doing it. I'm really getting interested in soil fertility, soil and plant nutrition, soil microbiology, etc... If you aint learning you're wasting your time.

Plants are not the best but not the worst either for being test subjects.

Strains in order

Night Nurse
OG Kush
My own strain
Another of my own strains

Seems like a v good start. In water only soil grows, I am finding the hardest part to be when you want to push the lighting to the max, it becomes very hard imo as the mix and riding the edge of too much become problems.

Staying with a totally basic grow with moderate lighting imo is a great path into water only.

An important key imo is about week 5 and 6...keeping them green after the stretch is difficult esp if growing multiple strains. One may want more, another less. Those beautiful frosty buds come from a healthy green plant making it past that to week 8 and beyond imo.

I manifold and used larger final pots this run, 10gal, and it made a huge difference.

Reasons sound magnifico! Have a great learning curve plants look proper

ComfortCreator said:

Seems like a v good start. In water only soil grows, I am finding the hardest part to be when you want to push the lighting to the max, it becomes very hard imo as the mix and riding the edge of too much become problems.

Staying with a totally basic grow with moderate lighting imo is a great path into water only.

An important key imo is about week 5 and 6...keeping them green after the stretch is difficult esp if growing multiple strains. One may want more, another less. Those beautiful frosty buds come from a healthy green plant making it past that to week 8 and beyond imo.

I manifold and used larger final pots this run, 10gal, and it made a huge difference.

Click to expand...

That 5 - 6 week mark is where issues will start showing up but I'm hoping for healthy plants until the end. I tried this awhile ago and ended up with one of the worst grows in my life. Hoping for a better outcome this time.

One thing I'm worried about is the container size. I'm using 3 gallon and I probably shouldn't be using anything less than 5 for this style of growing.

xtsho said:

That 5 - 6 week mark is where issues will start showing up but I'm hoping for healthy plants until the end. I tried this awhile ago and ended up with one of the worst grows in my life. Hoping for a better outcome this time.

One thing I'm worried about is the container size. I'm using 3 gallon and I probably shouldn't be using anything less than 5 for this style of growing.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan, but you're probably gonna need to top dress too. I'm working on just plain water and top dressing.

xtsho said:

That 5 - 6 week mark is where issues will start showing up but I'm hoping for healthy plants until the end. I tried this awhile ago and ended up with one of the worst grows in my life. Hoping for a better outcome this time.

One thing I'm worried about is the container size. I'm using 3 gallon and I probably shouldn't be using anything less than 5 for this style of growing.

Click to expand...

I saw the pots and wondered if it was the camera angle or small pots. That will definitely cause issues imo.

But we just had a whole thread about is it organic and does it really matter if we feed or topdress them? I dont think so, but I realize your goal here is specifically not to.

Following because I would like to just water as well but am too much of a pussy to try it lol.

Shit I tried to not pH and my shit went sideways lmfao

I just make up a variation of water only coots mix each run. I tried amending used soil in between runs but they faded so hard towards the end, it wasnt a fade it was starvation. It's really hard to know what the soil needs after being depleted.
Most of the organic problems and questions i see here arise from people trying to amend soils/living soils/no till. I applaud those who have the patience to stick with it and keep trying. I dont have that patience.
Best of luck @xtsho , you were right about those 3 gallos being a little small, especially if you're growing them long flowering sativas. Subbed

Wizzlebiz said:

Following because I would like to just water as well but am too much of a pussy to try it lol.

Shit I tried to not pH and my shit went sideways lmfao

Click to expand...

That's the nice part about water only soil, no need to ph ime.

Regarding pot size - these plants still root very well during flowering stage.

a transplant 3-4 weeks from the end will still be filled with roots and most importantly nutrients.

Might be an option if u wanna keep only water until the end.

Jesus theyre lovely

Wizzlebiz said:

Following because I would like to just water as well but am too much of a pussy to try it lol.

Shit I tried to not pH and my shit went sideways lmfao

Click to expand...

I believe nothing bad comes from ph-ing the water in water only. I need to, or i get obvious ph related "staining" on leaves. I understand I could try and customize the mix to perfectly adapt to my water but i choose not to.

natureboygrower said:

I just make up a variation of water only coots mix each run. I tried amending used soil in between runs but they faded so hard towards the end, it wasnt a fade it was starvation. It's really hard to know what the soil needs after being depleted.
Most of the organic problems and questions i see here arise from people trying to amend soils/living soils/no till. I applaud those who have the patience to stick with it and keep trying. I dont have that patience.
Best of luck @xtsho , you were right about those 3 gallos being a little small, especially if you're growing them long flowering sativas. Subbed

Click to expand...

This is the crux of it, and what I have been working to overcome.

Simply put most plants need to be fed a complete flower fertilizer, organic preferably by mid flower. It can be done by topdressing, but it cant easily be done on the fly, it is done by planning ahead. Organic nutrients work great imo.

It is hard to describe (imo) how much nutes are used once stretch starts. It is a lot, way more than us newbies would expect. The idea that they dont need N in flower is the first almost fatal myth. Likewise they use MORE nutrients through stretch and even beyond for a while. So much it depletes the soil in a well done grow.

I used 10gal bags this run, monstrous manifolds and i am going to make it to finish with a 98% water only finish. I could give a sxxx about getting an award for using nothing but water, but i do see now how much nutes are needed and when.

The best tip I can offer is that the graphs like Alchema show about how much nutes are needed and when are real. And trying to figure exactly what is missing...or in excess ar a given moment is very hard....

However, feeding them a complete organic feed when they appear deficient, in a good homemade soil, WILL get you through to the finish and beautifully. The plants take what they need and leave the rest.

Nobody has done more to make me understand this than Dr. Who. Thanks for the likes doctor.

I believe you could give a terrific lecture on this topic.

xtsho said:

One thing I'm worried about is the container size. I'm using 3 gallon and I probably shouldn't be using anything less than 5 for this style of growing.

Click to expand...

Hey X.

Yeah I'm pretty sure you know enough about how I run the Org. SS...
Little refresher though.

Yup, 3 gallon pots will likely need some amending/top dressing, or simple liquid organic feeding late in the run.

I don't think your going to have an issue with N though....just a "tick" high from the pictures.... DAMN GOOD LOOKING FOR A SECOND TRY!

just to recap my potting process:

Start in solo's and up to 1 gallons at the point the roots start to coil the bottom. They have to be grown enough to hold the soil in the cup/pot shape when removed. (IF for some reason you feel the roots are rather heavy. Simply "cut" the roots at the bottom by cutting an X, about half to 1 inch deep, across the bottom of the root ball, and up pot then..)

Water with 5 ml per gallon of a good kelp extract the first watering at the up potting.

Go to a 3 gallon and then up to a 5 or 7+ depending on your final pot size vs plant height at the finish.

Cramming in as many up pots as you can is helpful to some strains. Others prefer to sit and keep their "feet" cool.

At the last up potting (done with a bloom soil formula) - keep it in the veg area (or under veg lighting times) for 8- 10 days - 10 days for the 5 gallon etc...

This lets the roots nicely set into the new soil but, still have time to grow to the whole area in the bloom room.

This should allow them to get a nice jump on the bloom NPK before the light change.

As some strains run longer and/or I have not taken the time to balance another bloom soil formula - specific to the strain (I gotta fuck'in nuff already) I simply amend by nutrient tea's or break down and use a liquid organic fert (I have used age old for so long it's habit), to run the plants out to finish. This is usually for longer running sativa and sativa heavy expressing strains..

As for pH and my water only. As long as I'm not going over/under by ,,, say ,,, 1.5 points for any extended period of time. I ignore it.

Points of interest:

Avoid the use of Dolo as a Cal amendment. It contains to much Mg and your getting plenty from other sources in your soil building.

Not sure if you care about non animal stuff but, I do not use any "Blood meals or feather meals".
Now Poop and pee?
I do use. Same for insect frass and crab/shrimp and lobster shell meals.

I suggest you read through these web sites for some nice info.

These guys have a wealth of info you have to dig around for. Good for direct contact help and advice.

The same here but even better on many things. They can really help in letting you know about good and less then desirable organic nutrient sources and why.


Not going to hold you're hand or drive you to the finish but, gave you some places to grow your knowledge on your own.

Peace out BRO!

Dr. Who can you specify how you make a different SS for flower? I am willing to do the work and it makes sense. Strain specific mixes, veg and bloom, wow that really gets into it!

ComfortCreator said:

Dr. Who can you specify how you make a different SS for flower? I am willing to do the work and it makes sense. Strain specific mixes, veg and bloom, wow that really gets into it!

Click to expand...

I simply use less N source's. The one's I do source are slow to medium release.

I raise my available P by like 4 or 5 points to 6 or a tad over. Source slow with some medium release, here too.

As for K. I tickle the K up to the same level as the P and during the early (first 4 weeks in) bloom. I'll supplement a liquid (organic sourced) that has equal amounts of K sulfate and Mg sulfate. This enhances trich production and enhances terp profiles.
This amending is stopped at 5 weeks - sometimes 6, depends on the strain.
If you follow my instructions on home made "Terpinator and Sweet Raw" (Using organic sourced chemicals - you can find them if you try!) You will have made up the 2 sources of that amendment. They are used at 10 ml of the mix to 1 gallon of water used.

I heavily rely on home brewed teas in late veg for supplementing the nutrient availability fall off in the soils.

You should be able to not have to amend micro nutrient's (minerals) for 3 whole runs of the soil.

Calcium is recharged some every run, same with a light Mg source. Dolo is used here sometimes but, I generally rely on my own farm source Cal..... Egg shells is good stuff and you can change the "available" nutrient "properties" by using dried raw or oven roasted egg shells - well ground please.

That's right. I recharge my spoils and keep using them. Be sure to add back some peat and perlite back to each 2 cubic ft of soil recharged, at least every other run. (I do it every one a bit)

Recharging is almost a whole nother science. Use add back less but you have to dial that in per basically every strain "family group"....


peace

Dr. Who said:

I simply use less N source's. The one's I do source are slow to medium release.

I raise my available P by like 4 or 5 points to 6 or a tad over. Source slow with some medium release, here too.

As for K. I tickle the K up to the same level as the P and during the early (first 4 weeks in) bloom. I'll supplement a liquid (organic sourced) that has equal amounts of K sulfate and Mg sulfate. This enhances trich production and enhances terp profiles.
This amending is stopped at 5 weeks - sometimes 6, depends on the strain.
If you follow my instructions on home made "Terpinator and Sweet Raw" (Using organic sourced chemicals - you can find them if you try!) You will have made up the 2 sources of that amendment. They are used at 10 ml of the mix to 1 gallon of water used.

I heavily rely on home brewed teas in late veg for supplementing the nutrient availability fall off in the soils.

You should be able to not have to amend micro nutrient's (minerals) for 3 whole runs of the soil.

Calcium is recharged some every run, same with a light Mg source. Dolo is used here sometimes but, I generally rely on my own farm source Cal..... Egg shells is good stuff and you can change the "available" nutrient "properties" by using dried raw or oven roasted egg shells - well ground please.

That's right. I recharge my spoils and keep using them. Be sure to add back some peat and perlite back to each 2 cubic ft of soil recharged, at least every other run. (I do it every one a bit)

Recharging is almost a whole nother science. Use add back less but you have to dial that in per basically every strain "family group"....


peace

Click to expand...

Every time I think I am beginning to grasp most of what you do you go and let us in a little deeper into the secret Sorcerer's Lair and reveal that No, I don't really know jack sxxx.

Adding this to my notes page. Lots to consider. Amazing stuff and enough clues to figure some of it out.

I know that Kelp is a superb source for K. Also have your terpinator in my notes!

Could you share your favorite sources for P? My mix was a little deficient in P actually this run.

looking awesome bud!

ComfortCreator said:

Could you share your favorite sources for P? My mix was a little deficient in P actually this run.

Click to expand...

It's all in how you use the P sources.

Rock Phosphate is a slow release.
Alfalfa Meal is medium release
Guano's are fast release
liquid organic nutrients are delivered plant available. That means they are ready to be absorbed by the plant - just like synthetic nutrients.

I use plenty of it in (rock phosphate's) some soils (bloom) and less in those that run shorter.
Short to a little medium release is like guano's. You must be careful of it's use, as it can create P tox if over used.

Here is where I have to mention that I run all my soils at 6.5 for veg. and ambient room temps of an average of 75+ degrees F.
In bloom? I run at 6.7 - 6.8. Doing this is done by ignoring the soil's pH it's self and adding all ingoing set to those pH values

While I use several bloom rooms. They do have a temp difference of about 5-6 deg F between them. Average is 69-70, and LONG running sativa's up to 76F.

Why?

Because temp's of the soil are directly involved in P uptake. The higher the temp? The slower the availability for uptake.
The lower your temps? More available P for uptake. (By microbe actions in the soil)

Here comes the part about having an active healthy bio heard in your soil.

I have the blessing of running an all organic farm. In fact I'm the CEO of a 6 farm organic co-op. We run organic crops, raise organic animals, create organic dairy products and now (getting to be real big too) Raising organic brewing ingredients...

This allows me the freedom to employ farm byproducts in the building of my soils. here is where I get a vary broad spectrum of living bio's for my soil's.
NOTE: I like to run a fungal heavy spectrum soil for cannabis.

There is another note that can be critical to P uptake.
Ca will block P if over used or you make you soils to ca heavy.... It will slow it down at high rates of use to complete blocking.
This again will directly tie to Ph of the soil.
Always remember that when you water? The pH will swing over a point in one direction. as the soil dry's out? It swings back to the soil's "resting point".. Proper starting soil's allow the plant to grow into the soil in many ways. One is that the plant will "help" set the soil's pH at a spot the plant "likes".
Use a good proper soil when starting plants and up to the first real up potting to 1 gallons. It will help the plant with that pHing of the soil action.


I see folks doing "spikes" in bloom with some real odd choices for the P source. To me? This is just doing it the easy way AND increasing the chances of P and K issues! I don't "SPIKE" my soils at later bloom.

It takes time to hash out a good soil formula. Sometimes lots of time. Being able to "look" at a plant and "read" it? Is one of the biggest assets to being able to "build" a SS bloom formula...

That help some?